Drift Settings Journal: Vol 1 - '91 Mazda RX-7 Type R (FD,J)

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Boundary Layer

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Drift Settings Journal: Volume 1 - '91 Mazda RX-7 Type R (FD,J)

Vol1Banner.jpg

Der Alta
I would gladly endorse creating a thread on diagnosing a cars actions and how suspension changes and HP changes worked for differnet people. Taking perhaps the same car and tires allowing HP changes and suspension adjustments on a set track would start the discussion off in a nice way.
Click to expand...

Well here it is.

Welcome to the Drift Settings Journal.

Here we will thoroughly examine the handling characteristics of various cars in Gran Turismo 4 with the primary focus of the discussion set on their potential as a drift machine. The discussion will remain open for as long as people wish to add input, but a new subject car will be selected on a bi-weekly basis based on the results of a nomination thread.

As this idea is in it's early testing stages, and because this concept will only be successful if there is a lot of member participation, I don't intend to impose a heavy structure on the conversation. Basically, you're open to post any observations, feedback, or settings for the car that you wish (provided that it is constructive and drift related). Drift it how you want, where you want and let us know your thoughts and about your tuning process and tactics.

If you have any suggestions with regard to how this idea may be made more succesful, please PM them to me.

I have high hopes that this idea will lead to engaging exchanges and open us up to new tuning methods and approaches.

So, without any further adieu...


Subject Car: '91 Mazda RX-7 Type R (FD,J)
  • May be purchased from Used Car Lot 1.
  • Normally, specimen cars will be determined by the results of a nominations thread. This volume's car was picked under special circumstances just to get the idea rolling.

Last week I received a request from member Xessive-D to create settings for a '91 RX-7 Type-R. In his request he specified that he was looking for the settings to have approximately 350hp and it was important to him that the car felt balanced and stable at turn in - but he did still want to be able to drift it.

That's not necessarily important as far as the rest of this discussion is concered, it's just some background information. I thought it was suitable to be the first subject car.

That's all I have to say in this post, let the discussion begin.
 
My first impressions about this car is that it has way too much oversteer stock - and I believe this is what was troubling Xessive-D. My goal was to create an FD with close to neutral handling that was still quite driftable.

Here's what I came up with:

'91 Mazda RX-7 Type R (FD,J)

Parts to buy:
Sports Exhaust
Racing Brakes, Brake Controller
Port and Polish, Engine Balancing, Sports Racing Chip
Triple Plate Clutch, Racing Flywheel, Full Customize LSD, Carbon Driveshaft, Transmission Optional
Stage 1 Turbine Kit, Sports Intercooler
Racing Suspension
N3 Tires Front and Rear
Stage 1, 2, & 3 Weight Reduction, Chassis Refresh
Oil change and maybe some nice rims
~345HP (as per Xessive-D's request)
​

Settings:
Brake Controller
  • Front: 6
  • Rear: 11
Suspension:
  • Spring Rates: 7.0 kgf/mm | 7.4 kgf/mm
  • Ride Height: 96mm | 96mm
  • Shock Bound: 6 | 5
  • Shock Rebound: 7 | 7
  • Camber Angle: 2.6 | 2.2
  • Toe Angle: 0 | 0
  • Stabilizers: 4 | 4
Aids:
  • ASM Oversteer: 0
  • ASM Understeer: 0
  • TCS: 0
LSD:
  • Initial Torque: 40
  • Limited Slip Acceleration: 45
  • Limited Slip Deceleration: 30

​
- - - - - - - - - -

These settings are quite different than most that I create... with this car I was trying to reduce oversteer instead of create it. I'm normally use a front stiff, rear soft kind of setup. I found that I had to make some of my typical adjustments in the reverse direction for this car.

Xessive-D specified how much HP the car should have (350HP - I gave it 345), so that was one hurdle jumped for me.

To combat the extreme oversteering characteristics of the FD I stuffed N3 tires under the fenders first and foremost, and then had a look at the spring rates. I wanted to make the car as neutral as I could here. As well, I tried to find a comprimise between a snappy responsive setting, and one that would handle sweeping turns and bumps.

When I was satisfied witht he spring rates my attention went to the bound and rebound. Lately I have always set bound to 6, rebound to 7, and the raise or lower the rear bound as necessary to control the car's understeering or oversteering tendency.

As far as brakes go, I like to set my balance witht he following test:
Get some speed up, swing the car sideways so that you're sliding fully perpendicular to a straight, and then brake. I want my brake balance such that while I'm braking the car's trajectory does not change - I can brake and continue to slide in a straight line without having to adjust my steering.

After that, the rest came together quickly.
I'll add that I did all the setup at Trial Mountain, and most of it with the DFP.


I think this setup is very versatile and beginner friendly. The handling is quite neutral at turn in (leans slightly towards oversteer to help initiate drift if so desired). Oversteer is easily realized in midturn by applying the throttle. I say it's beginner friendly because you will get out of the car exactly what you put in. If you execute an agressive feint, you will get a lot of angle from the car. If you approach the car more cautiously, your drifts will reflect that.

If this setup does feel at all uncontrollable then you're probably driving the car too hard. Ease up, and slow down.
 
Another excellent idea from Boundary Layer!
I'm going to start with the settings you posted and go from there, so ill edit this post in an hour or two after i've done a preliminay tuning session. Look for them soon!
 
Brake Controller

* Front: 6
* Rear: 11

Suspension:

* Spring Rates: 7.0 kgf/mm | 8.4 kgf/mm
Click to expand...

Just curious, is it neccesary to add oversteer to a car that oversteers naturally?

Maybe when I get home I'll make a setup for the FD.
 
Boundary Layer
These settings are quite different than most that I create... with this car I was trying to reduce oversteer instead of create it. I'm normally use a front stiff, rear soft kind of setup. I found that I had to make some of my typical adjustments in the reverse direction for this car.
Click to expand...
D3PO, were you implying that the stiffer rear would induce more oversteer??

The topic has been brought up many times before, so I won't go into it, and I must agree with Boundary Layers settings here. I too have found that having a slightly stiffer rear on the FD effectively stabilises the car and slows down it's natural tendency to "hang" out.
 
d3p0
Just curious, is it neccesary to add oversteer to a car that oversteers naturally?

Maybe when I get home I'll make a setup for the FD.
Click to expand...

whoops
that's a typo. It should be 7.4kgf/mm in the rear.
Thanks for calling me out on it, I wouldn't have noticed.

But I'll address the question anyways.

I explained how I arrive at my brake bias in my previous post (I do realize that you replied before I had editted in my additional comments).

As for the 7.0 | 7.4 - I just went with my gut and found something that I hoped would meet Xessive-D's request. I liked the turn in response with the front at 7.0 - for the weight of the car it seemed like a good balance that would handle most driving conditions and types of corners.

I was not as comfortable with handing these settings over with the rear in the 6's though. With the rear at 6.5kgf/mm the car became quite bouncy, slightly more rolly, and frequently would bottom out over curbs/crests. There was also a bit more oversteer at turn in than with the rear set stiffer (the requester wanted near neutral turn in).

So I went higher just to see how the car would react, and I liked it.
I think if the car had less power than it does in my setup, the end result would be mild understeer. But turning in with the throttle applied gives mild controllable oversteer.
 
That's funny, I was just going to reply how I could understand having a significantly higher rear spring rate. Using 350hp on N3's is a pretty sticky setup.

Also, I was going to assert how the FD brakes very neutral in stock form and I couldn't see why you'd want to bias towards the rear. I understand what you are trying to achieve and it does replace something which you can't do in the game (modulating the brakes and e-brake simulatenously). However, this is still going to be limiting in situations where you need to rotate the car using the brakes, because it will reduce your ability to slow the car and increase the speed which the car rotates at.
 
d3p0
That's funny, I was just going to reply how I could understand having a significantly higher rear spring rate. Using 350hp on N3's is a pretty sticky setup.

Also, I was going to assert how the FD brakes very neutral in stock form and I couldn't see why you'd want to bias towards the rear. I understand what you are trying to achieve and it does replace something which you can't do in the game (modulating the brakes and e-brake simulatenously). However, this is still going to be limiting in situations where you need to rotate the car using the brakes, because it will reduce your ability to slow the car and increase the speed which the car rotates at.
Click to expand...

hehe, that is kinda funny.

I agree with how you say my brake setup could be potentially limiting. However, I very rarely use brakes in that fashion anyways. I'm better off catering my settings to how I intend to use my car - it only makes sense.

Generally, I initiate drift well before the turn and going a little faster than I should be knowing that my sideways-ness will scrub off a lot of speed. If I do require to slow down even more, then I can brake during this slide without completely destroying the line I chose. I'll make necessary corrections to line and rotation with the steering and the throttle in mid drift, instead of with brake taps.
 
** Edit ** Alright, I tested the FD on n2's and n3's. It was okay stock, just a little too long to shift. It took about 1 second when it usually takes about .200 :). So I found out, it doesn't quite oversteer naturally, it drifts fine for me stock on n3's. No spint outs all the time. No problem at all. I would just put on a full customize transmission at auto set 8 or 9, and I'll be all set, but I got some "fine-tuning" done last night, and today after school. Took me about a hour to tune the suspension and LSD close to perfect on my scale. I took some pics of what I think is Clubman Stage Route 5 where Boundary Layer drifted, got a close enough pic to it, oh, and I got the same color as you BL :lol: Here is my pic of it.



Here are my settings:

Parts to buy:
Oil Change, Racing Exhaust, Sports Racing Chip, Stage 1 Turbo, Racing Intercool, Racing Brakes, Brake Controller, Racing Suspension, Full Customize Transmission, Triple-Plate Clutch, Racing Flywheel, Carbon Driveshaft, Full Customize Limited Slip, Stage 1 Weight Reduction, Rigity Refresher, Port Polish, Engine Balancing, N3 Tires 363-368 Horsepower

Settings:

Suspension:

Spring Rate - 12.2 / 11.0
Ride Height - 99 / 99
Shock (Bound) - 7 / 7
Shock (Rebound) - 8 / 8
Camber Angle - 2.5 / 0.5
Toe Angle - 0 / Either -1 or -2, I prefer -2 because it spins out sometimes...
Stabilizers - 5 / 5

Transmission:

Auto Set - 8

LSD:

Intial - 10
Accel - 45
Decel 25

Brake Controller:

4 / 4

Driving AIDS all at 0!



Sorry I didn't post these earlier. Well, this car is just right for me, I didn't want to mess with it any more since I was getting a bit frustrated drifting, then going back to the tuning place, and then back. Grr, these settings are probably the first one's that ever worked for me in GT4 with any RX-7. I'm happy :)

...Enjoy!
 
thanks for the contribution matt. I'll give those a try in the morning and post my reaction to them. At first glance it looks much more sensitive than the settings I pinned up. I'm also curious to see how well those spring rates and damper settings will handle curbs and undulations.
 
ok, I gave them a run around Trial Mountain, Matt. I ran them with the same power upgrades as were on my setup though so that difference wouldnt be a consideration in comparing the rest of the setup.

Have to say I was suprised at how well it maintained control over curbs and through sections with bumps or elevation changes. I expected it to behave more harshly being that it is so stiffly sprung.

Also, the gearing is much more appropriate than mine (left mine stock because I'm lazy).

Your setup does have decidedly more understeer than the one I pinned up. It felt much more grounded and would not slide as easily for me. I like to begin drifts well before the corner entry when there is sufficient track space to do so, and I had difficulty doing that with this setup. Instead of sliding out, this thing would want to carve a turn. I had to more or less initiate at the normal turn in point for a racing line with a dynamic entry to make it work for me.

I'm pretty confident these differences come through the spring rates... It's the only really large difference. But I'm sure the rear camber played a role as well. To me (and for my style) your suspension felt like it'd be better suited to a car 200 or 300kg heavier than this. I thought it made the car fell more like a speed drifter or a race setup (if S or R tires were equipped) than an exhibiton drifter.

Everyone's got their own preferences. If it works for you, 👍
I'm going to point Xessive-D to them. Given that these are even less slippery at turn in than mine they might be more to his liking.
 
But we might just discover the perfect settings for this car;):p

Maybe...I'll give it a try...man am I INSPIRED by ekmatt's pictures. I LOVE THAT color:drool:

Edit: DAMN I'm only gonna give it a try if I get that wonderfull blue-green RX-7, otherwise just forget it;)
 
thanks BL for pointing this out to me, Ekmatt9 ima try those settings asap thanks for the cooperation guys, and yes we have to make it perfect lol.

thanks again
👍
 
Thanks guys. I wanted a stiff suspension, because I noticed if you lower the car and the suspension isn't stiffened, it is very bouncy. In the replays it looks horrible in my opinion. So my technique if the suspension is stiff, for example, I took the TOM'S Chaser, the suspension is stiff if you get the racing suspension. It's stiff in the front. I increase the SR about 10-15 clicks to the right, then suspension about 2-6 Whole #'s near to the front. I lower Bound to 7, and leave rebound at 8 because if that's at 7 I noticed, it whips back easier. My LSD settings are a little off. I need to find new LSD settings for that X, I'll PM you them when I get it.
 
driveanyway =p
Hay guys I think i might have an even better setting if you want to know just ask me.
Click to expand...

no, how bout you just post it and contribute to this discussion...
 
ok
SUSPENSION
spring rate:f/7.0 r/7.4
ride height: 95mm
damperbounce:f/5 r/6
camberangle:f/2.6 r/2.2
toeangle:f/-2 r/0
stbaliser:f/3 r/7
LSD
intialtorque:60
LSDaccel:60
LSDdecel:30
DOWNFORCE
f/:3
r/:0
BRAKES
f/:6
r/:13
I HOPE YOU LIKE IT GUYS IT WORKS FOR ME.
 
hrm... you missed a spot driveanyway.

what mods did you toss on it?
and what was your damper rebound while we're at it?

I'd like to try it out. It looks like you pulled a few values from my settings so I want to compare the two.
 
what the... more detail dude... i mean at least say what you put on the car, and i cant wait to try them out when youu have them posted, unless you use the duel shock2 cuz its kind of different then the dfp, and EK i am waiting impatiently:dopey:
 
The LSD Setting you promised to PM him? That's what he's waiting for. If this is for Wheels only, I won't be able to contribute since I got no wheels. I'm a DS2 drifter sorry...:P
 
sorry guys I forgot about my mods
damper rebound:f/5 r/6
MODS
raceing suspension
standard strans
racing fly wheel
carbon drive shaft
rear wing
fully custom LSD
Racing Brakes
Brake Controller
Stage 1 turbo
intercooler large/or small depends howe i feal
racing exhaust
computer
tyresN3.
 

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