Drift Trial suspension bug

  • Thread starter TH137Z
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TH137Z

TH137Z

647
Australia
South Australia
TH137Z
Hi everyone. So some of you know, Ive been whining and complaining about how Drift trial lobbies cause havoc with my wheel.
The problem I had was that during transitions, coming off the throttle or having the front wheels at that 'sweet' spit, The wheel would go really light and have no feel. it was as if the force feed back suddenly stopped. After opening the lobby menus up and only finding Drift Trial lobbies, I though it was time I built a new car and try tuning to this lobby type.
I bought myself a Acura NSX '91 to try something different. I tried every combination I could think of, tried anything and everything that could relate to steering and couldnt find anything that worked. Think I was in the lobby for almost 3 hours. Then I had an idea. I tried the stock suspension. Jumped on track and it was great. I had even weight over the whole wheel, didnt lose forcefeed back at all (except when I clipped the inside ripple strip on Autumn Ring Mini, Though Id say it got airborne.)
I tried the Racing Hard, Soft and Rally suspension options too, but found they still had the forcefeed back issues.
I also had been playing with the weight and at this time I was running 130kg at -50%, and stage 2 weight reduction. The feeling was great.

Now I jumped back into my beloved twin turbo supra. Tried drifting with the fully custom suspension and I had the same initial problem. losing forcefeed back spontaniously and having the front wheels over reaching everytime I tried to apply steering input. So I tried out the the stock suspension. It was an instant improvement. However, it still felt odd. I think it had something to do with my ballast, Think Im running it at 90kg @ +30% on stage 3 weight reduction.
Problem is, I was about to play with the weight and ballast and see if weight over the front end would finally solve my problems, then we got thrown out of the lobby. GT Maintanence to Servers or something. I tried the fully customisable suspension in offline Drift trial mode but unfortunately it still has full forcefeed back and doesnt have the issue I have been encountering. So tomorrow lets hope that this issue has been fixed, or Im going to continue playing with these findings and get back to you all.
 
The other day when I entered the team's drift trial lobby (1st drift trial experience) and I immediately felt something "off" when transitioning between corners. Now that you said it's because of FFB reduction during the transition from one direction to another, it makes a bit more sense to what I was feeling. Funny how stock footwork makes it go away though. You would think that all suspension would be consistent but I guess there must be some bug when suspension variables are changed.
 
Yeah seems odd, I need to play with the supra more if I want to continue using it in online drift trial lobbies but, since this little fix, it'll make the lobbies so much more bairable. However I also found that the stock suspension does not seem to have the steering lock that the others have. Atleast it didn't feel like it. So maybe the race suspension increases steering lock over stock???
 
TH137Z
Yeah seems odd, I need to play with the supra more if I want to continue using it in online drift trial lobbies but, since this little fix, it'll make the lobbies so much more bairable. However I also found that the stock suspension does not seem to have the steering lock that the others have. Atleast it didn't feel like it. So maybe the race suspension increases steering lock over stock???
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That's probably right. Apparently you get 15-20 more degrees of lock in drift mode
 
JR86
That's probably right. Apparently you get 15-20 more degrees of lock in drift mode
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I simply couldn't bare DT Mode, However. I decided to reset all my tunes, and tune it again on DT Mode. All it takes is a tweak in the tune and you'll be fine.
 
JDM SRE70
I simply couldn't bare DT Mode, However. I decided to reset all my tunes, and tune it again on DT Mode. All it takes is a tweak in the tune and you'll be fine.
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Indeed, the problem isn't with Drift Trial modes, I was doing fine last night. :)
 
Maybe your cars ride hight too low. I don't know because I ain't had this problem on DT. It's got to be somthing with your tune though.
 
Mcrsmokey
Maybe your cars ride hight too low. I don't know because I ain't had this problem on DT. It's got to be somthing with your tune though.
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Probably :) I use a ride height that is higher in the front, and a really soft suspension in the rear.
 
Gonales
Probably :) I use a ride height that is higher in the front, and a really soft suspension in the rear.
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I'm not exactly too sure of that. I have been taking a "team-a-bo-moon" approach. Where the car is setup up to be its lowest. Then you tune around that.

I actually tried altering my driving style instead of the tuning, and i went smoothly on DT. Most of it relied on Throttle modulation. But i'm definitely not ruling out that ride height affects the cars handling characteristics.
 
I cant say I ever had any problems with my g25 in DT lobbies but the only time I feel nothing in the wheel is in complete understeer with no grip in the front tires. After playing Rfactor for weeks and returning to GT6 I had to retune every thing. To be able to drift consistently on GT6 I had to change all my suspension settings and power outputs now most of my tunes do not really go any stiffer than over 3kg of stock suspension im finding with softer suspension a 10 times better feel in my wheel and slightly stronger force feed back and this is in all modes. When returning to GT6 my driving style had to change as well so I guess I can see the logic in both theories.
 
JDM SRE70
I'm not exactly too sure of that. I have been taking a "team-a-bo-moon" approach. Where the car is setup up to be its lowest. Then you tune around that.
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That's the only way I tune, both here and irl. A bo moon and old haraguchi forever.
 
JDM SRE70
I'm not exactly too sure of that. I have been taking a "team-a-bo-moon" approach. Where the car is setup up to be its lowest. Then you tune around that.

I actually tried altering my driving style instead of the tuning, and i went smoothly on DT. Most of it relied on Throttle modulation. But i'm definitely not ruling out that ride height affects the cars handling characteristics.
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Well that's going to be your problem, in gt5 most of my cars were fully lowered, in gt6 I noticed fully lowering your car makes the car feel terrible.
 
is your toe angle is positive? And I have the same problem every time I tune a car. Front is probably too low or you're not getting enough extension.
 
JDM SRE70
I'm not exactly too sure of that. I have been taking a "team-a-bo-moon" approach. Where the car is setup up to be its lowest. Then you tune around that.

I actually tried altering my driving style instead of the tuning, and i went smoothly on DT. Most of it relied on Throttle modulation. But i'm definitely not ruling out that ride height affects the cars handling characteristics.
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If you don't have stupidly stiff springs and/or dampers (comp) then you will easily bottom out the suspension at its lowest ride height. This could lead to an odd feeling during transitions due to the suspension not being able to work and transferring all the load into the chassis and tyres. You might beach the car on curbs as well if you hit them wrong leading to a complete loss of control.
 
DolHaus
If you don't have stupidly stiff springs and/or dampers (comp) then you will easily bottom out the suspension at its lowest ride height. This could lead to an odd feeling during transitions due to the suspension not being able to work and transferring all the load into the chassis and tyres. You might beach the car on curbs as well if you hit them wrong leading to a complete loss of control.
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Trust me i know, driven the fair share of low cars IRL
 
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This low? lol
 
JDM SRE70
Trust me i know, driven the fair share of low cars IRL
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Fair enough, I just don't like my car to be as stiff as lowest ride height requires, I prefer my cars a little more active but each to their own. Scrapers look cool, but much like heavily stanced cars they just don't perform that well
 
DolHaus
Fair enough, I just don't like my car to be as stiff as lowest ride height requires, I prefer my cars a little more active but each to their own. Scrapers look cool, but much like heavily stanced cars they just don't perform that well
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You'd be surprised man some custom fab work or stuff like "Parts By Max Shop" stuff really make it possible to perform well. Only thing is you have to make chassis adjustments, and the tires may munch your guards alot lol
 
JDM SRE70
You'd be surprised man some custom fab work or stuff like "Parts By Max Shop" stuff really make it possible to perform well. Only thing is you have to make chassis adjustments, and the tires may munch your guards alot lol
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Oh yeah of course you can in real life, I was talking about GT though lol.
Can't really get away with slammed rides in the UK any more, too many potholes and speed humps to make it worthwhile.
 
DolHaus
Oh yeah of course you can in real life, I was talking about GT though lol.
Can't really get away with slammed rides in the UK any more, too many potholes and speed humps to make it worthwhile.
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Oh in GT, yeah its pretty tough. You just have to balance everything out.
 
The problem is that drift trails give the car more steerting lock so u dont spin as easily.The car get more steering lock than the steering wheel does so its kinda difficult to be smooth. Some cars dont get as much lock as some of the other so there isnt a problem. I mostly use the fc rx7 350z the altellza wagon and im good
 
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I've finally converted to Drit Trial mode now, but to drift the same way in free mode, I have to use 9* front camber to make the front end feel the same.
 
Basically the "lack of feeling" in the wheel you are feeling is called "Wheel Bind".

Some (well most) of the cars that have the extra degrees of steering added do not need as much. So there are consequences to that.

Honestly one of the easiest ways to fix the problem overall is to just make the degrees of steering adjustable. And for the love of god the ability to adjust caster. Being able to adjust that will solve pretty much every problem.

And I have found that slamming cars creates major problems in my opinion. Most of the people on here would probably crap themselves if they see my tunes.
I run a really high front ride height and low rear too. That's just the ride height. Everyone is different though so there is no right or wrong in tuning.

@Klutchy

I have been experimenting with tunes on DT mode and I am making tunes that you will spin instead of straighten almost every time. Plus I have always said it is better to spin and not to straighten.
 
Klutchy
The problem is that drift trails give the car more steerting lock so u dont spin as easily.The car get more steering lock than the steering wheel does so its kinda difficult to be smooth. Some cars dont get as much lock as some of the other so there isnt a problem. I mostly use the fc rx7 350z the altellza wagon and im good
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This doesn't make sense. "The car gets more steering lock than the wheel does."

Seriously? It's basic math, really. :/

Let's say the cars used to have 40 degrees of steering angle and went to 45, or 50. The wheels most people use, have 900 degrees.

The ONLY thing that changed is the correlation between the degrees on the car to the degrees on the wheel.
In other words, before was : 900/40. This means for every degree of angle on the car you had 22.5 degrees on the wheel. Now, that ratio went to 900/50 (for example): Which means that for every degree on the car you only have 18 degrees on the wheel, which results in a little less smoothness.

I, personally, don't mind to sacrifice that smoothness at ALL (if it even reduces smoothness, because I think it's the driving style that does), to be able to have bigger angles.

I do agree with your statements that steering lock differs per car, but... This is the same in real life. :)

Lock2Lock
Basically the "lack of feeling" in the wheel you are feeling is called "Wheel Bind".

Some (well most) of the cars that have the extra degrees of steering added do not need as much. So there are consequences to that.

Honestly one of the easiest ways to fix the problem overall is to just make the degrees of steering adjustable. And for the love of god the ability to adjust caster. Being able to adjust that will solve pretty much every problem.

And I have found that slamming cars creates major problems in my opinion. Most of the people on here would probably crap themselves if they see my tunes.
I run a really high front ride height and low rear too. That's just the ride height. Everyone is different though so there is no right or wrong in tuning.

@Klutchy

I have been experimenting with tunes on DT mode and I am making tunes that you will spin instead of straighten almost every time. Plus I have always said it is better to spin and not to straighten.
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I call ********. People were using extreme numbers in GT5 and drifted without issues. The fact that PD implemented a little more steering lock in DT modes isn't an excuse for smoothness issues or whatever. Hell, I think the overall feeling of any car has improved a LOT.

I do agree with your opinion on slamming cars though: It needs a really good setup, and will reduce the feedback overall. Besides the fact that slamming a car too much looks ridiculous :D
 
Hmm. I must run wierd tunes then. Its slammed in the rear and raised 10mm from the slammed height in the front. I do this as it looks tough as ****. And I drew inspiration from my daily. I've been using a much softer spring rate now also. I then use the front ride height to increase understeer once the springs have been set.
 
@Gonales

I don't understand what in my post you were quoting.

I was describing the lack of feeling in the wheel ("wheel bind") and wasn't really pointing at smoothness really. Yeah people were running ridiculous numbers in GT5 with major twitchy drifting. Some however didn't.

All I am saying is that some cars do not need as much degrees of steering. It all comes down to driver preference though. Just like how you argue your points about certain kinds of tuning being "wrong", it all comes down to driver preference. May not work for you but it works for others. Get what I mean?
 
Lock2Lock
@Gonales

I don't understand what in my post you were quoting.

I was describing the lack of feeling in the wheel ("wheel bind") and wasn't really pointing at smoothness really. Yeah people were running ridiculous numbers in GT5 with major twitchy drifting. Some however didn't.

All I am saying is that some cars do not need as much degrees of steering. It all comes down to driver preference though. Just like how you argue your points about certain kinds of tuning being "wrong", it all comes down to driver preference. May not work for you but it works for others. Get what I mean?
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I bolded out the part of your post which I was replying to. I bolded it out once again, really.

You said that cars got too much steering angle and that negatively impacted the handling, which is quite a ridiculous claim in my opinion, because drifting without the steering angle (in Free Run modes for example), felt really crap.

I bolded out the statements that some cars have too much steering angle. I replied to that with a mathematical reasoning (although very simplified), why that is not really true. With 35, 45, or 55 degrees of steering angle, I can pull of the same drift (given that the amount of angle is not too much for the 35 degrees). It all comes down to being able to adapt to it. :)

I agreed with you about the slammed cars part. It's my opinion that it impacts handling negatively, due to multiple reasons. Some of these reasons can be negated by tuning properly.

DolHaus
uh oh... here we go again lol
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Get lost if you have nothing useful to add.
 

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