Driver rating confusion.

[Odysseyhal900]

So I just completed a race C, clean race, improved 7 places, Sportsmanship went up, Driver rating went down!!! Wtf?????

 

[Fezzik]

Clean races don't affect DR.
How many places you improve doesn't necessarily affect it.
It all depends on the DR of those you beat and those who beat you.

 

[Famine]

So I just completed a race C, clean race, improved 7 places, Sportsmanship went up, Driver rating went down!!! Wtf?????

Driver Rating question.

OK for weeks now I've been stuck on Driver Rating C, with consistent Sportsmanship S. I plugged away getting better times, further up the grid etc, a few poles, finally some podiums and some wins. Lo and behold few days ago my driver Rating goes up to B. Yahoo!!! So understandably, my times...

www.gtplanet.net

What have they done to DR and SR???

OK I've not had any issues with SR personally, I generally try to leave space, avoid collisions and nearlyvalways get "clean race". After taking an eternity to get to DR B just before Christmas (I only race casually), I've noticed that the progress bar has barely gone up, then in the last week...

www.gtplanet.net

Confusingly, these are both also you...

 

[Odysseyhal900]

You're confused!!! It completely baffled me for a while 🥴

 

[Pigems]

 

[Funky Pol]

I just got a negative DR and SR after finishing 5th in Race C. I started at 13. It was raining. I slid off the track a bit, a few times. I don't believe I hit anyone. 4 people who finished after me were a lap behind. Some of them had positive DRs. I get that that race might require you not to ever go off course for a good SR, or maybe I would have hit someone if they had not ghosted, but why the negative DR? There were only 9 cars left at the end of the race. Does other people quitting affect the DR?

 

[NevilleNobody]

I just got a negative DR and SR after finishing 5th in Race C. I started at 13. It was raining. I slid off the track a bit, a few times. I don't believe I hit anyone. 4 people who finished after me were a lap behind. Some of them had positive DRs. I get that that race might require you not to ever go off course for a good SR, or maybe I would have hit someone if they had not ghosted, but why the negative DR? There were only 9 cars left at the end of the race. Does other people quitting affect the DR?

I don't understand the confusion. It's so clear. You lost DR because of the three people who beat you took more of your DR points than you gained by beating the players below you. This is because some or all the three that beat you were ranked lower than you. It's really all extremely simple.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I just got a negative DR and SR after finishing 5th in Race C. I started at 13. It was raining. I slid off the track a bit, a few times. I don't believe I hit anyone. 4 people who finished after me were a lap behind. Some of them had positive DRs. I get that that race might require you not to ever go off course for a good SR, or maybe I would have hit someone if they had not ghosted, but why the negative DR? There were only 9 cars left at the end of the race. Does other people quitting affect the DR?

If you didn't hit anybody you shouldn't lose any SR, had you quit out of a race or disconnected before you entered this one?

It can show what you had lost in the previous race at the end of the next one you finish. If you have not finished a race it gives you the DR penalty as though you had finished last plus a small SR hit along with the drops you would get for any contact in that race.

 

[jrbabbitt]

View attachment 1333563View attachment 1333564View attachment 1333565View attachment 1333566

Does this remain current because above information is from GT Sport?

 

[Funky Pol]

I don't understand the confusion. It's so clear. You lost DR because of the three people who beat you took more of your DR points than you gained by beating the players below you. This is because some or all the three that beat you were ranked lower than you. It's really all extremely simple.

But since I started at 13, there were only 2 or 3 below me in DR, so it doesn't seem likely that everyone would get an increased DR but me. I guess I don't understand the alphabetical position rating part. Is that based on driver name?

If you didn't hit anybody you shouldn't lose any SR, had you quit out of a race or disconnected before you entered this one?

It can show what you had lost in the previous race at the end of the next one you finish. If you have not finished a race it gives you the DR penalty as though you had finished last plus a small SR hit along with the drops you would get for any contact in that race.

I did quit the race before. I started with no practice, so it was a disaster. Are you saying the penalty for quitting doesn't apply until the end of the following race?

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I did quit the race before. I started with no practice, so it was a disaster. Are you saying the penalty for quitting doesn't apply until the end of the following race?

If I understand right it applies as soon as that first race finishes for everyone else in there, it's just how it shows it after your second race that can look a bit funky, I only noticed because it was showing people with red ratings after races with DR and SR turned off.

 

[NevilleNobody]

Alphabetical?? You start in qualifying order and where you start has zero influence on the DR gains or losses.

 

[Thorson1987]

I did quit the race before. I started with no practice, so it was a disaster. Are you saying the penalty for quitting doesn't apply until the end of the following race?

If you join the very next timeslot yes.

 

[Famine]

But since I started at 13, there were only 2 or 3 below me in DR, so it doesn't seem likely that everyone would get an increased DR but me.

Where you start isn't relevant. Your DR isn't relevant to where you start. All that is relevant is where you finish and the relative difference between your raw DR score and those of the drivers you beat/beat you at the start of the race.

I guess I don't understand the alphabetical position rating part. Is that based on driver name?

It seems like you're confusing your car's door number with something that matters.

Your door number is, in a best case scenario, an indicator of where your DR ranks compared to everyone else's in the same lobby. However it only correctly applies to drivers who are in the exact same DR score magnitude because of reverse alphabetical sorting.

I've thoroughly explained this concept elsewhere in this and the GT Sport forum but in brief this method of sorting is why you see file names which end in different numbers of digits being sorted out of numerical order in Windows.

You and I would sort the numbers 1-10 like this:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10

Alphabetical sorting would sort them like this:

1, 10, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

Imagine a dictionary of numbers. In a dictionary you do all the As first (starting a, then words beginning aa, and so on: a, aa, aal, aardvark, etc), then the Bs (in the same manner: b, ba, baa, baaed), then the Cs, and so on to the Zs. In number terms you do all the 1s first (for numbers available as DRs, that'd be 1, 10, 100, 1000, 10000, 100000, 11), then the 2s (2, 20, 200, 2000, 20000, 21), and so on.

Reverse alphabetical sorting would sort them like this:

9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 10, 1

The same, but backwards like reading the dictionary upwards and right to left).

Let's add 00s and pretend that they're Driver Rating:

900, 800, 700, 600, 500, 400, 300, 200, 1000, 100

Now you should be able to see that the guy with the highest Driver Rating would, in a ten-car race among these people, wear #9 even though he should be #1 due to having the highest Driver Rating.

At DR D, this causes chaotic sorting, because 3,999 is the highest DR possible (except for players limited by their SR) and 1 is the lowest, but in any race where there's players with any DR starting with a 4 (400-499, 40-49, 4), 5 (same ranges), 6 (same), 7 (same), 8 (same) or 9 (same) would have a higher door number. In fact anyone right at the top of DR D, with a DR in the range 3,000-3,999 would be outranked in door number terms by anyone with a DR at any one of these 600+ other values.

It stabilises at DR C, B, and A as everyone has a five-digit DR, so the numbers are sorted correctly. However A+ starts at 50,000 and now goes up to 150,000 - adding one order of magnitude. Thus someone at 99,999 would always be door #1, while anyone at 100,000 or over would be ranked below everyone else with a five-digit DR.

I did quit the race before. I started with no practice, so it was a disaster. Are you saying the penalty for quitting doesn't apply until the end of the following race?

No.

As DR is only assigned at the end of a race (because all that matters is finishing position), the race you quit out of has to finish before your DR can be updated. If you start another race in that period - quitting a Daily Race C allows you to enter a B or A race before it finishes, and most other combinations of that - your DR won't reflect the result of the previous race because it hasn't finished yet.

 

[Funky Pol]

Where you start isn't relevant. Your DR isn't relevant to where you start. All that is relevant is where you finish and the relative difference between your raw DR score and those of the drivers you beat/beat you at the start of the race.

It seems like you're confusing your car's door number with something that matters.

Your door number is, in a best case scenario, an indicator of where your DR ranks compared to everyone else's in the same lobby. However it only correctly applies to drivers who are in the exact same DR score magnitude because of reverse alphabetical sorting.

I've thoroughly explained this concept elsewhere in this and the GT Sport forum but in brief this method of sorting is why you see file names which end in different numbers of digits being sorted out of numerical order in Windows.

You and I would sort the numbers 1-10 like this:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10

Alphabetical sorting would sort them like this:

1, 10, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

Imagine a dictionary of numbers. In a dictionary you do all the As first (starting a, then words beginning aa, and so on: a, aa, aal, aardvark, etc), then the Bs (in the same manner: b, ba, baa, baaed), then the Cs, and so on to the Zs. In number terms you do all the 1s first (for numbers available as DRs, that'd be 1, 10, 100, 1000, 10000, 100000, 11), then the 2s (2, 20, 200, 2000, 20000, 21), and so on.

Reverse alphabetical sorting would sort them like this:

9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 10, 1

The same, but backwards like reading the dictionary upwards and right to left).

Let's add 00s and pretend that they're Driver Rating:

900, 800, 700, 600, 500, 400, 300, 200, 1000, 100

Now you should be able to see that the guy with the highest Driver Rating would, in a ten-car race among these people, wear #9 even though he should be #1 due to having the highest Driver Rating.

At DR D, this causes chaotic sorting, because 3,999 is the highest DR possible (except for players limited by their SR) and 1 is the lowest, but in any race where there's players with any DR starting with a 4 (400-499, 40-49, 4), 5 (same ranges), 6 (same), 7 (same), 8 (same) or 9 (same) would have a higher door number. In fact anyone right at the top of DR D, with a DR in the range 3,000-3,999 would be outranked in door number terms by anyone with a DR at any one of these 600+ other values.

It stabilises at DR C, B, and A as everyone has a five-digit DR, so the numbers are sorted correctly. However A+ starts at 50,000 and now goes up to 150,000 - adding one order of magnitude. Thus someone at 99,999 would always be door #1, while anyone at 100,000 or over would be ranked below everyone else with a five-digit DR.

No.

As DR is only assigned at the end of a race (because all that matters is finishing position), the race you quit out of has to finish before your DR can be updated. If you start another race in that period - quitting a Daily Race C allows you to enter a B or A race before it finishes, and most other combinations of that - your DR won't reflect the result of the previous race because it hasn't finished yet.

Thanks for this thorough answer. On the second part, I quit Race B and entered Race C, which is longer. So perhaps the hit to my DR kicked in at the end of the C Race, as the B would have finished by then.

On the first part, that is very illuminating. So the door number reflects player's DRs, relative to each other within the race, except for the weird way that the game sorts the DRs. The game gathers people with similar DRs into a lobby, then then positions them according to their Time Trial time. Right?

I'm reading that the PS5 OS, Orbis OS, is based on FreeBSD which sorts numbers in the way you describe. Apparently a small addition to the code will make FreeBSD sort numbers naturally, like humans are used to. I don't know why Polyphony doesn't do that.

 

[NevilleNobody]

Everyone over thinks this DR thing. You need to beat everyone with a DR lower than you not to lose points and you need beat folks higher than you to gain points. That's all she wrote... done.