DTM Round 2

[Appie]

Welcome to Round 2

Track: High Speed Ring

Sprint Race: 6 Laps no tirewear
Tyres: Racing Super Soft

Main Race: 15 Laps no tirewear
Racing Medium

Weight Penalty's

Sphinx----------> 2% weight added
Sjaak68---------> 1% weight added

EFJ-------------> 1% weight decrease
SkylineGoes-----> 1% weight decrease
Drew22---------> 1% weight decrease


these are the rules:

- 2 races per week
- 1 Sprint race
- 1 Main race
- 1 point for the fastest lap
- 1 point for the fastest lap in the main race
- I'm giving you a week to submit your time
- For balancing the racing field weight penaltys will be given or
- drivers will get a decrease of weight
- Save your Races


-2 wheels on track at all times
-Rumble Strips are part of the track
-No wall riding
-No wall touching
-No short cutting
-No Cheating of any kind

Settings are

Power - Using the figure I give you before each Round
Weight - Using the figure I give you before each Round
Top Speed - Your choice
Driving Aids - None
Transmission - Your choice
Tire Type
- Racing Super Soft for Sprint race
- Racing Medium for the Main Race

Remaining points for sprint race & main race

1st place 10 pts
2nd place 8 pts
3rd place 6 pts
4th place 5 pts
5th place 4 pts
6th place 3 pts
7th place 2 pts
8th place 1 pt

There are 3 championships to give away

-Constructor Championship
-Team Championship
-Drivers Championship.



- ABT Audi TT-R Touring Car ----------------------> 449 {-1%}----- 1004{-7%}
- Audi A4 Touring Car '04 --------------------------> 449 {-1%} --- 1004{-7%}
- Mercedes Benz CLK Touring Car-------------------> 452 {+2%}--- 1000
- AMG Mercedes Benz 190E 2,5 Evo II '92-----------> 452 {20%}--- 970 {-1%}
- Opel Clibra Touring Car '94 -----------------------> 462 {10%}--- 988 {-5%}
- Opel Astra Touring Car '00 -----------------------> 454---------- 1000
- Alfa Romeo 155 V6 TI Race Car ('93)--------------> 459{+11%} -- 989 {-2%}
- BMW GTR Race Car '01 --------------------------> 453{+2%}---- 1008{-10%}

Dead line for your time submission:Sunday 12 Jan BGTB local time.
(BGTB=before going to bed)

 

[ls2_297]

just to clarify..... sprint races are all held on super soft tyres? and mediums for the main race?

 

[Appie]

yep

 

[My_Sterious]

I think this track suits me better than Tsukuba.
Though the Alfa isn't practically made for straights
I hope the weight decrease would help a little. At lease the Alfas are light now. 50 kilos or so lighter than the other cars

 

[Drew22]

I don't know Skyline Goes, I ran the first race over with the 2 Mercedes and was 2 seconds a lap faster then the Alfa, not sure that weight reduction will equal 2 seconds.We have the wrong car I'm afraid.

 

[My_Sterious]

I don't know Skyline Goes, I ran the first race over with the 2 Mercedes and was 2 seconds a lap faster then the Alfa, not sure that weight reduction will equal 2 seconds.We have the wrong car I'm afraid.

I'm affraid so too. But I'll finish what I've started. After race 10 I think our cars start to be atleast somewhat competitive with -10 in weight
Hopefully not though

 

[X-Othermic]

I think the Audi i'm in will suffer with less BHP, but i do like this track. However i;m not too confident, and the Audi certaintly isn't the best car by a mile.

 

[Appie]

well
we should see next week X

 

[EFJ]

Ye 1% decrease this is good ... or not ... hehe
but i need take this harder

i did my races in my work this is not good !

holla mates!

 

[bbq0801]

I dont like this track at all... we may have less power, but with the weight penalty on the BMWs the Audis might be looking at overall this week!
( I hope)

 

[X-Othermic]

Hmm, we both did ok last week so im hopeful that i can challenge the top 5 this week.

 

[Sjaak]

Looking forward to race on this track.
At least not that many sharp turns as Tsukuba.

appie,about the weight penalty's

These were the rules before today.

- 2 races per week
- 1 Sprint race
- 1 Main race
- 1 point for the fastest lap
- 1 point for the fastest lap in the main race
- I'm giving you a week to submit your time
- Every time someone wins a race he will get 1% weight added
- Last placed driver will get a decrease of 1% weight
- Save your Races
- Top 3 drivers gonna get a weight handicap of 1%

I don't mind if you change them but some explanation would be nice though.
And is there a possibilty that when the toprank drivers fall below,they get some weight reduction back?

 

[Appie]

but i will have to see
how the times will be

 

[Sjaak]

appie,I try to stay polite.
But your reply will not do enough to me.

Why did you change the rules?

 

[Sphinx]

I've just read the updated race structure in the first post of this thread.

Much better 👍 👍 👍

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

My first round, let`s start 👍

Black Hole Racing, sucking up the competition ...

 

[My_Sterious]

appie,I try to stay polite.
But your reply will not do enough to me.

Why did you change the rules?

I too try to stay polite but stop whining. You only got one % weight added. Like that would do any harm. If you want to whine, please take a look at how I did in the first race and complain then. You will stay on top, I will not come up from the bottom you know?
I think it's at least fair that both Alfas got the decrease since we were so much slower than you other guys. And I can swear to God I am faster than what the times say. With the Mercedes I got a 2 seconds faster lap on Tsukuba than with the Alfa. So it's only fair to give more decreses, just to even the times a little.

But no hard feelings, okay?

 

[Sphinx]

Just been testing on time trial and the results clearly suggest that the BMW has no chance with the extra 3% weight and I doubt that it would fair much better with the same weight it started with.

I'm all for a handicap system, but as it is now, it's more like a crippled system.

I predict that for the 15 lapper the BMW will be about 12 seconds behind the winning time.

 

[X-Othermic]

I tried the sprint race today, the Audi's certaintly gonna suck with low power.

 

[bbq0801]

Just been testing on time trial and the results clearly suggest that the BMW has no chance with the extra 3% weight and I doubt that it would fair much better with the same weight it started with.

I'm all for a handicap system, but as it is now, it's more like a crippled system.

I predict that for the 15 lapper the BMW will be about 12 seconds behind the winning time.

thats kinda the point of the weight penalty system though, when you lose a race, someone else will win, then they will have 3% added, and be slower as well. It should even out by the end of the series.

although i think maybe it should be 3% for the winner, 2% for second and 1% for 3rd, that might even it out faster..

 

[Sphinx]

I too try to stay polite but stop whining. You only got one % weight added. Like that would do any harm. If you want to whine, please take a look at how I did in the first race and complain then. You will stay on top, I will not come up from the bottom you know?
I think it's at least fair that both Alfas got the decrease since we were so much slower than you other guys. And I can swear to God I am faster than what the times say. With the Mercedes I got a 2 seconds faster lap on Tsukuba than with the Alfa. So it's only fair to give more decreses, just to even the times a little.

But no hard feelings, okay?

It's not about "whining", it's about getting things right. If the Alfa's need more adjustments then I say have those adjustments. If a car out performs the rest then I say reduce it's performance to make it more even, that's what a handicap is all about. However, it's not about handicapping the driver's ability when it's clear that he isn't driving the fastest car, the CLK.

 

[bbq0801]

yes, the alfas need help.

but with the bmws all in the top 5, mercedes far down the pack, audis and opels are outclassed as well, the only reason i was up there with the bmws in the first race was because i set a target of running 6 laps in 5'00 min. when i got there, i quit. There was absolutely no way the audi was going faster than that, I ran 6 entire laps in WRS hotlap mode.

things do need to be set right, but it should have been done when people realized how outclassed the alfas were at the beginning add power, remove weight until the alfas can run with the rest. As far as the rest go, I say Sphinx, sjaak and the other bmw drivers are simply in the best car, just like a real race series, personally I dont mind. I think the rest of us will have to raise our game to keep up!

 

[Sphinx]

yes, the alfas need help.

but with the bmws all in the top 5, mercedes far down the pack, audis and opels are outclassed as well, the only reason i was up there with the bmws in the first race was because i set a target of running 6 laps in 5'00 min. when i got there, i quit. There was absolutely no way the audi was going faster than that, I ran 6 entire laps in WRS hotlap mode.

things do need to be set right, but it should have been done when people realized how outclassed the alfas were at the beginning add power, remove weight until the alfas can run with the rest. As far as the rest go, I say Sphinx, sjaak and the other bmw drivers are simply in the best car, just like a real race series, personally I dont mind. I think the rest of us will have to raise our game to keep up!

We aren't in the best car, that's my point. I can understand it if we were, but we're not. The only reason the BMW did well in race #1 was for the fact that it holds more grip on tight corners. But now we are at High Speed Ring that has very little to do with taking tight corners, the likes of the CLK will shine through even without a handicap on the BMW car.

BTW, the theory behind handicap systems is to get every car across the finish line at the same time, and it's down to the drivers ability to prevent this in order to win the race.

 

[Appie]

We aren't in the best car, that's my point. I can understand it if we were, but we're not. The only reason the BMW did well in race #1 was for the fact that it holds more grip on tight corners. But now we are at High Speed Ring that has very little to do with taking tight corners, the likes of the CLK will shine through even without a handicap on the BMW car.

BTW, the theory behind handicap systems is to get every car across the finish line at the same time, and it's down to the drivers ability to prevent this in order to win the race.

👍

i think you know a lot about handicaps and stuffs

 

[nitro_2005]

We aren't in the best car, that's my point. I can understand it if we were, but we're not. The only reason the BMW did well in race #1 was for the fact that it holds more grip on tight corners. But now we are at High Speed Ring that has very little to do with taking tight corners, the likes of the CLK will shine through even without a handicap on the BMW car.

BTW, the theory behind handicap systems is to get every car across the finish line at the same time, and it's down to the drivers ability to prevent this in order to win the race.

Don't forget the Audis! We've been quick as well, you know

 

[bbq0801]

OK, so if we had done HSR, then Tsukuba, the MBs would have won, gotten a handicap, you would not, then we would go to Tsukuba, you would win and get a handicap, i dont really see a problem here.

I still think it needs to be proven that you are not in the best car, but thats why I was telling everybody else aside from the Alfa drivers to suck it up and do their best.

 

[Sjaak]

I don't mind if you change them but some explanation would be nice though.
And is there a possibility that when the toprank drivers fall below,they get some weight reduction back?

SkylineGoes,
Whining?,who's whining?
no hard feelings and still being polite but you missed this post I guess.
I had no problems with the weight penalty's.
Like I said only an explanation would be cool but that is sorted out already.
And if you're as fast as you claim ,I see you soon on the podium where you get my sincere congrats.

 

[sukerkin]

Hi Sphinx

I'm not entirely sure that I fully agree with some of your points as it is going to be the case that some of the cars are going to be good on flowing courses and some are going to be better on the tighter, bumpier, circuits.

To help Appie out, I did some of the basic testing for this series a while ago, which consisted of multiple laps in each of the cars to get an idea of their general performance. I used Grand Valley as the test circuit as I find that has a reasonable mix of all the track profile types and also has a good long straight to check out the raw speed of the cars.

It's no surprise that I tapped the Alfa and the Mercedes 190 as needing a big 'leg up' as they were much slower than the others. The two Audi's were pretty much in the same ball park, as were the CLK and the Astra (which were faster than the Audi's).

Now I didn't have any part in how the handicaps were worked out or how the races were organised (and I haven't driven any of the cars since) but I feel that you're concerning yourself too much about the BMW. What I mean is that it's actually the best handling and most responsive car of the bunch, or so I found it. A driver of your proven talent won't have to worry too much about making a good impression driving it.

If it does turn out that the handicaps and track selections aren't balancing the field properly to give everyone an even break on a cars 'type' of track, then it's all grist to the knowledge mill for the next DTM series.

EDIT: Oh and just in case anyones wondering, I surrendered my right to choose a car when I did the testing and asked to be assigned one (I'd've picked the BMW if I'd had my way ).

 

[My_Sterious]

...but thats why I was telling everybody else aside from the Alfa drivers to suck it up and do their best.

Thanks for your confidence

But yeah, I think the Alfas really don't have a chance And that the BMWs are the best no matter what you guys say.

 

[Sphinx]

OK, so if we had done HSR, then Tsukuba, the MBs would have won, gotten a handicap, you would not, then we would go to Tsukuba, you would win and get a handicap, i dont really see a problem here.

I still think it needs to be proven that you are not in the best car, but thats why I was telling everybody else aside from the Alfa drivers to suck it up and do their best.

The problem is that the driver is being handicapped instead of the car. It would be far better to handicap the cars from race #1 than the two fastest drivers.

For example, I had a 3% increase in the BMW and yet others driving the same car only had 1%

This is how I would've done it from race #1

BMW = 2% Added Weight
A4 = 1% Added Weight

I'll run the A4 tonight and compare it to the BMW time from race #1