Dude suspended for wearing makeup

[Ten]

If I may ask, Concept, what makes you so much better a person than he?

 

[smellysocks12]

Intelligence doesn't automatically mean that someone is smart. I've met a lot of ****ing idiots in university.




This kid might be intelligent, but he might not be that smart by overestimating his power/importance in this system. If the school system doesn't want someone to be dressed up like a freak, then maybe he should start to think that it might be better for himself to dress a bit more normally.


In a lot clubs they won't let you in if you wear any sports clothing, this school won't let you in if you dress up like the Insane Clown Posse.

 

[Joey D]

And what if he was the next Steven HAwking or Eintstein? Have you ever listened to Marilyn Manson speak? Or Jean Simmons? They're both very intelligent people, both of whom must obviously be idiots or morons just because you say so.

I still don't see why you must bring up Marilyn Mason. He may speak like he knows what he is talking about, but his main goal in life is take out Christianity. He wants to be the anti-chirst and shove his beliefs onto kids through lyrics. I would say all he's doing is posing off Ozzy and trying to make himself darker. Not that I really agree with Ozzy though.

I'm not some high end church person, I don't even go to church, but I still think saying you are the anti-chirst means that you are screwed up in the head.

I'm not even going to get into his perverted ways and his drug useage. Anyone with that sort of mantanlity is just not right and has some issues. Sure he dresses weird but that really means nothing when you look at his ideas.

The Insane Clown Posse is the same way, only worse. They tell kids to do shoot up drugs, kill their teachers, and what not. Plus I remember when they were on O'Reily. They said they had every right to tell kids that stuff and it's their own fault that they would believe it. Right, if telling a bunch of impressionalbe teenager to go do something, sooner or later someone will.

These people aren't smart, they are just a plague on our society. I can deal with a freak who dresses up when he goes to school, whatever I'm not going to change him and he'll figure out later on in life what to do. But these so called musicans are complelty different.

 

[a6m5]

And what if he was the next Steven HAwking or Eintstein? Have you ever listened to Marilyn Manson speak? Or Jean Simmons? They're both very intelligent people, both of whom must obviously be idiots or morons just because you say so.

First of all, please don't compare couple of the most intelligent men, ever, with Manson and Jean Simmons.

Unlike Blazin, I actually agree with you, that those two rockers are pretty smart. From what I've seen on their interviews, I was pretty impressed by how well spoken and intelligent they were. However, you do realize why those guys wear/wore makeups. To sell themselves in the industry. Those makeups are not there for some intelligent reason, it's marketing.

 

[Ten]

Some would argue that marketing is intelligent thinking.

 

[Joey D]

Without a doubt marketing is intellgent, if you can find a way to sell something based on the look and how you show it, hell I'll give you a thumbs up for figuring it out. Marketing is a hard science to master.

 

[a6m5]

Some would argue that marketing is intelligent thinking.

You are right and I wouldn't argue that. 👍 I just meant to point out the motive for the makeup.

 

[PS]

He may speak like he knows what he is talking about, but his main goal in life is take out Christianity. He wants to be the anti-chirst and shove his beliefs onto kids through lyrics. I would say all he's doing is posing off Ozzy and trying to make himself darker. Not that I really agree with Ozzy though.

He's very philosophical, maybe you just don't understand most of what he says when he's speaking in metaphor (I don't gret a lot of his metaphorical stuff either, just check his journal).

the original purpose of his band was to challenge the limits of censorship, which he has done very well. In the beginning, the names they chose (Marilyn Manson = Marilyn Monroe+Charles Manson, Daisy Berkowitz = Daisy Duke + Daviud Berkowitz, Madonna Wayne Gacy = Madonna + John Wayne Gacy, Ginger Fish = Ginger Rogers + Albert fish, those band member's names are females+killers) were reflections of fame and controversy. The band's sould purpose (in the very beginning) was to be as controversial as it possibly could, which worked because Brian Warne (now known as Marilyn Manson) studied music journalism for 2 years, so he obviously knew the right buttons to push. It was only after Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails) discovered him and let manson intro one of his concerts that he was discovered, and Marilyn Manson and The Spooky Kids (later renamed just MM because it was shorter) was born. The whole anti-christ superstar, mechanical animal, dope fiend, Herr Doktor, Arch Dandy, Burlesk Grotesk thing is for controversy. During Mechanical Animals however, his music turned out to be more honest, as it focused more on his artistic side and actual musical talent. Everything before that was great just because he was on cocaine/absynthe, something that for some unknown reason creates great music.

I'm not some high end church person, I don't even go to church, but I still think saying you are the anti-chirst means that you are screwed up in the head.

Neither am I, and if you knew about Manson you would know he;s not actually a Satanist, even though he's been dubbed Reverand of The Satanic Church (est. in 1966 if I remember correctly).

I'm not even going to get into his perverted ways

Stage antics or real perveted ways? If you mean real perverted ways, he has none. Stage antics are for show, and he delivers a damn good show. I know someone who met Manson, she says he was very polite and funny.

and his drug useage. Anyone with that sort of mantanlity is just not right and has some issues. Sure he dresses weird but that really means nothing when you look at his ideas.

Most of what you see is either A) rumours B) stage antics or C) music videos, which speak very little of his true character, as it is all a reflection of American Culture when you look behind the curtain.

The Insane Clown Posse is the same way, only worse. They tell kids to do shoot up drugs, kill their teachers, and what not. Plus I remember when they were on O'Reily. They said they had every right to tell kids that stuff and it's their own fault that they would believe it. Right, if telling a bunch of impressionalbe teenager to go do something, sooner or later someone will.

Insane Clowne Posse are just retards. I'll say that. They're by far some of the most ignorant, hatefull and hedonistic band members I've ever seen. They're either extremely disturbed or the biggest posers I've ever had the liberty of seeing in my life.

These people aren't smart, they are just a plague on our society. I can deal with a freak who dresses up when he goes to school, whatever I'm not going to change him and he'll figure out later on in life what to do. But these so called musicans are complelty different.

I've noticed a trend that many of the more humorous performers are quite smart. Robin Williams, Eminem, Jim Carey, Mike Myers, Marilyn Manson, Jean Simmons— they're all funny (when you get to know them more, or if they comedians once you see some more in-depth interviews) and immensely intelligent. Even today, as I purchased the book "Long Hard Road Out Of Hell", written by Marliyn Manson himself, I was talking to the (hot) girl at the counter and she said "I don't know too much about Manson, but I do know he is an extremely intelligent person", which suggests that just like the theme in To Kill A Mockingbird, many appearances can be vastly deceiving (let's you you pick through that one, Sage!).

 

[PS]

Upon further review, and the reading of Long Hard Road Out Of Hell (Manson, M., Strauss N. Regan Books, New York. 1998), I can pretty much tell you, BlazinXtreme, that everything you have cited about Marilyn Manson is misconstrued, incorrect, a blatant lie, or taken out of context.

The soul purpose of Marilyn Manson has, and likely will continue to be, pointing out the ironic hipocricy of "talkshow America"; or basically most of American culture, by challenging our beliefs and morals.

*For the record, Marilyn Manson and Trent Reznor have never killed an(y) animal(s), had sex on stage, had sex with an under-ager, and have never hurt any animals during a performance, recording, or during after hours personal life.

My point? My point is similar to that of Manson's; what makes one stupid/moronic for wearing makeup to school (something that you have yet to reply to, dropping my posts in their entirety, being left to drift through cyberspace unanswered)?

[edit]

*Or abused any women without prior consent for the purposes of stage antics to instigate controversy (50% of the time, it was the ideas of those "abused" to go on stage and participate in whatever acts had been previously rehearsed).

 

[Joey D]

Well I've read in a newpaper, which is far more crediable then a book written by the man in question, where Mason proceded to bring women up on stage, whether they were of age or not and them the use his microphone as a sex toy. Thats about the cleanest way I can put it for the forums.

Or what about the sexual assult charges files against him in 2001 by a security gaurd? Or the concert where he committed a sex act with a man who jumped on stage, he claimed it was a joke but really now who is he kidding. He tells kids that underaged sex is fine, such as saying 16 is ok to have sex, which in some states it is.

Here is the interview with him on O'Reily, now I know it's O'Reily and it's biased but look at Mason's answers. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,32588,00.html. Plus its a tad more current.

But the fact you based fact out of a book that is not only 7 years old and co-written by the man in question, I can say I'm not going to believe the information.

Also what about the drugs that he suggests are ok to do while at his shows? You know many of those kids are doing drugs. I mean come on he wrote...err sang...err well performed a song called "The Dope Show".

My point is similar to that of Manson's; what makes one stupid/moronic for wearing makeup to school

Fine I'll answer your question, although if you read through my post you can see my opinion on why it makes one "stupid". First off you will be remember by the kids who will be your boss some day. They will think back on that and more then likely not hire you. You are looked down apon by adults who see you like that.

90% of the people who dress and act like that are into drugs and other illegal behaviors. Not judging, but just stating what I've observed thoughout my life.

But that kid was an idiot any ways. If you fail and have to be held back in a public school, not to mention a California public school, you are pretty stupid. Hell when I was in high school I saw kids graduate with a 1.0 GPA and you have to be pretty dumb or just not care. Either way they have already failed at life, which I in fact enjoy.

 

[Concept]

And what if he was the next Steven HAwking or Eintstein? Have you ever listened to Marilyn Manson speak? Or Jean Simmons? They're both very intelligent people, both of whom must obviously be idiots or morons just because you say so.

He failed the ninth grade...

You're right. Wasn't Eintstein thought to be retarded or something? Anyway, he's not a complete idiot just because he looks like one. The way he dresses and carries himself does make him seem to be more of an idiot than he might be. There is no denying that he is missing something in his head that tells him he's being an idiot.

I don't go for all that gothic or extreme punk crap. In my opinion, anyone who has to do either is starving for attention or confused. Nobody in their right mind can honestly say they are 100% confident in themselves if they have to be so rebellious. To me and many others, it's very stupid.

 

[PS]

Well I've read in a newpaper, which is far more crediable then a book written by the man in question, where Mason proceded to bring women up on stage, whether they were of age or not and them the use his microphone as a sex toy. Thats about the cleanest way I can put it for the forums.

Newspapers are notorious for miscontrueing information. A Newspaper is only as credible as the reporter at the concert (likely 100ft away in a crowd with lights in his eyes form somewhere). I have seen his concerts and heard details about his stage antics; he even has look-alikes of himself, where he and his lookalike would pretend to do...."things" using props. And note that no actual...erm...it was all...*ahem* just "show", just acting, no actual, how should I say..."truth" to the sex act?

Or what about the sexual assult charges files against him in 2001 by a security gaurd?

In some places in Europe the act of rubbing one's genetalia on anothers' neck is regarded as a compliment. America is too conservative for that, though.

Or the concert where he committed a sex act with a man who jumped on stage, he claimed it was a joke but really now who is he kidding.

It obviously was a joke; he has some of his old band members come to shows sometimes for a greater performance. If you actually SEE his concerts, you will realise that 1. all penis's that you see on stage are fake, 2. all acts are consentual, and 3. all acts are fake.

He tells kids that underaged sex is fine, such as saying 16 is ok to have sex, which in some states it is.

If both parties are mature, responsible, and consenting, then why not?

Here is the interview with him on O'Reily, now I know it's O'Reily and it's biased but look at Mason's answers. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,32588,00.html. Plus its a tad more current.

A tad, not by much.

Not to mention the fact that that was a horrible interview; O'Reilly routinely cut off Manson, interrupted him, misconstrued what he was saying, manipulated his words and presented him to be something Manson is not. And you failed to mention the fact that Manson denied a lot of that stuff. And also, someone running up and streaking on stage is beyond his control; Manson can't be blamed for that and it doesn't reflect tge way someone looks at all, nor does it reflect the true character of Warner.

But the fact you based fact out of a book that is not only 7 years old and co-written by the man in question, I can say I'm not going to believe the information.

Marilyn Manson has never lied about anything; he is about the unrestrained brutal truth in case you're unaware. And all the more reason to believe him—a first hand experience account of what happened.

Also what about the drugs that he suggests are ok to do while at his shows?

While he has done drugs before (a) concert(s), he does not promote them. Many of his connotations go by those who do not understand his metaphorical way of speaking, most of which is a reflection of American Culture and Censorship.

You know many of those kids are doing drugs. I mean come on he wrote...err sang...err well performed a song called "The Dope Show".

That's their fault. They're not the ones seeing the irony in his songs; they're the ones who blindly pump their fists and go along with everyone else.

Fine I'll answer your question, although if you read through my post you can see my opinion on why it makes one "stupid". First off you will be remember by the kids who will be your boss some day. They will think back on that and more then likely not hire you. You are looked down apon by adults who see you like that.

Those kids are the ones sacrificing hard workers for those who look good. Those kids are the ones who are going to be driving their companies into the ground because of appearance/aesthetics. They're the ones so blinded by media's image of normal, that they hire someone based on looks. The culture of the entire earth is this way, but it doesn't make it right.

90% of the people who dress and act like that are into drugs and other illegal behaviors. Not judging, but just stating what I've observed thoughout my life.

How do you know they're into illegal behaviours? Have you considered how many people who don't wear makeup are into crime and drugs? I'd find a lot more "norms" downtown who do drugs than those who wear makeup.

But that kid was an idiot any ways. If you fail and have to be held back in a public school, not to mention a California public school, you are pretty stupid. Hell when I was in high school I saw kids graduate with a 1.0 GPA and you have to be pretty dumb or just not care. Either way they have already failed at life, which I in fact enjoy.

It's entirely possible that (I'm Canadian, so I'm not sure how the highschool credit system works) he got reasonably good in some subjects, but bombed one other because he stopped going to class or something, which in turn dragged down his average. You don't know the circumstances, and you can't base all your hate on one example of person—especially when tons of men/guys wear makeup or are of some denomination which is associated with makeup.

He failed the ninth grade...

That's an irrelevant point included from a biased news source. Fox/CNN are both notoriously biased.

You're right. Wasn't Eintstein thought to be retarded or something?

I've never heard that. I heard he was slow in growth/development, though.

Anyway, he's not a complete idiot just because he looks like one. The way he dresses and carries himself does make him seem to be more of an idiot than he might be. There is no denying that he is missing something in his head that tells him he's being an idiot.

This person in particular was a tad slow, yes. But you can't base all your theories/hate/reasons on seeing this one person, because not everyone is like him. There's no way to tell what someone is like, or what they're capable of—because you don't know them. You really need to read To Kill A Mockingbird; I'm doing a thesis on it right now, it's about insights into life and moral character. I suggest you take a look into it, you might like it.

I don't go for all that gothic or extreme punk crap.

I don't either; I like Manson's message, and his music. I don't try to emulate him in any way. The problem with society is that you make up your minds before you even meet someone. I'll you $1000, that if you saw Brian Warner in the supermarket, and started a conversation with him (without his makeup), you wouldn't even know it was him. Heck, you'd probably walk away amazed at what this guy has to say—or the fact he actually listens to what you have to say.

In my opinion, anyone who has to do either is starving for attention or confused.

That may be your opinion, but how can you have an opinion of the reasons why someone does something? They either do or don't, with their own reason that you may or may not know, which thus puts you in a position void of any opinion over their reasoning.

Nobody in their right mind can honestly say they are 100% confident in themselves if they have to be so rebellious.

Why not?

To me and many others, it's very stupid.

To me and many others, judging people by their looks is very stupid. Actually, answer these questions:

-What do you think I look like?
-What do you think my grades are?
-What do you think I enjoy in my spare time?
-What do you think I wear?

[edit]

Excerpt(s) from the interview:

You're a pretty well-spoken guy, yet in your records you use a lot of F-word, a lot of swearing and this and that. Again, is it necessary to get your message across to use that kind of language? Is it -- you use the sexual imagery, you use the shocking physical appearance, you've done some bizarre things on stage, and you use profanity. All that necessary?

Sometimes. I think sometimes when you're making a point, I don't think that my lyrics are over-laced with profanity, because I myself don't speak using a lot of profanity in normal conversation. But I think when you're making something aggressive and you need to get a point across, if you're angry, sometimes profanity is necessary. It's better to use a curse word than to hurt somebody else, I find.

Another:

And that most children don't understand what you're doing and why you're using the F-word and why you are acting bizarre. And this can be very, very troubling to children who don't have direction, who don't have responsible parents.

Anything can be misinterpreted. People can look at Christ on a cross and think, This is an image of murder, this is violent, this has sexual imagery in it. And it just -- I think it's my job as an artist to be out there pushing people's buttons and making them question everything.

And I respect you for challenging me, and that's why I came on the show.

Oh, that proved a lot. It proved that O'Reilly makes Manson's fans out to be 12 year olds. The average age of his fan-base is 16, a perfectly acceptible age to have sex and make your own decisions. Go pick on France or Quebec where kids start at 14-15 (average).

 

[Joey D]

You know it's sorta pointless for us to keep argueing since I'll never convince you and you'll never convince me. Plus I grow tired of refuting the same points over again.

 

[Omnis]

i know people from my school who are wiccan...

they dress in long black coats and stuff. i haven't seen any of them with crazy outrageous crap. they just look slobby, with a black tenchcoat or etc. thrown over.

 

[PS]

You know it's sorta pointless for us to keep argueing since I'll never convince you and you'll never convince me. Plus I grow tired of refuting the same points over again.

Except you're not trying to convince me of anything, haven't provided any valid points, hardly explained yourself, and have made rash generalizations.

Are you sure you just didn't read what I said?

 

[Joey D]

I didn't read what you said because I don't care anymore. You are trying to convice me Mason isn't what I think he is, you aren't going to change me and I'm not going to make your believe that Mason is bad. It's as simple as that. It's stupid to keep argueing this because it's going no where fast and I hate hammering points over and over again. Your attempt to get me to continue has failed.

Argue with Concept or something.

 

[Concept]

. You really need to read To Kill A Mockingbird; I'm doing a thesis on it right now, it's about insights into life and moral character. I suggest you take a look into it, you might like it.

I read that book in the ninth grade as a matter of fact. It's ninth grade reading level.

 

[Ten]

Same, along with "Of Mice and Men". Both great titles, regardless of scholastic rank.

 

[Velocity]

I'm sorry, but what a freak. Get over it, graduate from school, then do whatever you want.

I couldn't agree more. Sorry but when you're paying your own rent and taxes and all that good responsible stuff that comes with growing up then you can walk around where ever you want dressed however you want. I don't care what you do on the street or around your own family but are you so desperate to stand out among your peers that you'll do rediculous stuff like this in a neutral learning enviroment? I'm all for individualality but only when you're not stepping on everyone elses toes to do so. Accept that in the public school system you're completely controlled. Don't forget teachers have all had to deal with issues like this long before you came along and they'll be dealing with it long after you leave.

Although it can be difficult for teens to accept at this stage in life, high school and 99% of the people you attend it with won't mean anything after you graduate. Most people keep in contact with one maybe two friends from high school, the rest you'll never see again until your reunion. Who cares if you impress them or not? Their oppinion of you won't matter at all in a few years.

I've also heard from a teacher friend of mine that they get tired of the whole "it's a free country" attitude from students. Most kids really haven't earned the right to start flaunting the whole free country thing around. Now in college and university when the prof's don't give a **** whether you live, die or grow mushrooms in your crack is a different story. You're also paying for it so damn right you should be able to dress how you want.

My point is this dude should just chill until he's in a position where he IS at the controls of his own life before he starts whining about insignificant S**t like this.

p.s

This is exactally the kind of attitude that some else could use to justify wearing a swastika or tattooing Satanism stuff all over themselves.

 

[PS]

I didn't read what you said because I don't care anymore.

Good job.

You are trying to convice me Mason isn't what I think he is, you aren't going to change me and I'm not going to make your believe that Mason is bad.

That's because if you paid attention, he's not bad.

It's as simple as that.

Evidentally not, if I have to keep explaining things to you.

It's stupid to keep argueing this because it's going no where fast and I hate hammering points over and over again.

Then maybe you should look up some valid and true information, hammer out new ones, and then you might have an argument. Otherwise you're just restating incoherent lies.

Your attempt to get me to continue has failed.

As you wrote those words, you instantly became a hipocrite.

Argue with Concept or something.

I'd rather not, fearing that he will just chose the same path as you: "I don't care so I leave".

I read that book in the ninth grade as a matter of fact. It's ninth grade reading level.

Not only did you miss the point, but you made an irrelevant one. And TKAMB is easily a 6th grade level of reading.

Same, along with "Of Mice and Men". Both great titles, regardless of scholastic rank.

Exactly.

 

[PS]

I couldn't agree more. Sorry but when you're paying your own rent and taxes and all that good responsible stuff that comes with growing up then you can walk around where ever you want dressed however you want.

Oh, so you have to make money to be a "freak" now?

I don't care what you do on the street or around your own family but are you so desperate to stand out among your peers that you'll do rediculous stuff like this in a neutral learning enviroment?

Does it matter if its in a learning environment? And who says he's doing it for attention? You sure make a big deal out of something you don't care for.

I'm all for individualality but only when you're not stepping on everyone elses toes to do so.

How is he stepping on anyone else's toes? If you listened to the video none of the children have anything against, and furthermore, they all support him. It's the students' own faults' if they can't concentrate with a kid in their class who wears makeup. Maybe their parents should have taught them not to stare or something. Not his problem, or fault.

Accept that in the public school system you're completely controlled.

Only by the rules laid forth; if there's something omited in the privacy/conduct/honesty/dress code, then all the power to him.

Don't forget teachers have all had to deal with issues like this long before you came along and they'll be dealing with it long after you leave.

All the more reason to leave it alone; duh.

Although it can be difficult for teens to accept at this stage in life, high school and 99% of the people you attend it with won't mean anything after you graduate.

So why make a fuss? We (or at least I) know that.

Their oppinion of you won't matter at all in a few years.

So, you couldn't agree more with BlazinXtreme, yet he says that 'people will remember you from highschool and they'll think about that', and here you say that they won't? Ultimately noone's opinion of someone else matters anyway; when it comes to a profession one has to look at cold hard facts rather than a face with makeup on it.

I've also heard from a teacher friend of mine that they get tired of the whole "it's a free country" attitude from students.

Get used to it.

Most kids really haven't earned the right to start flaunting the whole free country thing around.

Oh, so we have to earn the right to be Canadian citzens now? I see; that's a smart move.

Now in college and university when the prof's don't give a **** whether you live, die or grow mushrooms in your crack is a different story. You're also paying for it so damn right you should be able to dress how you want.

Oh wait—so if we pay for it, and the teacher(s) do(es) not care, the it's ok? Great. Just great.

My point is this dude should just chill until he's in a position where he IS at the controls of his own life before he starts whining about insignificant S**t like this.

Wait a minute—you mean to say that suspensions in highschool have no bearing on what University you get accepted into, that suspensions are overlooked by employers later on? I'll bet you make tons of money, so I'll just shush.

p.s

This is exactally the kind of attitude that some else could use to justify wearing a swastika or tattooing Satanism stuff all over themselves.

And in case you weren't aware, the swastika/swasvastika(or swaswastika, not sure) means "sun", "life" and "purity" in pretty much all other cultures beyond Europe and the america's.

P.S. —

Do you even know what satanism is? (Hint: it's not worshipping Satan)

*Keyword: Anton LaVey

 

[Joey D]

I think its funny you are still going at this, just let it die for god sake. Do you really think I care if you think I'm a hypocrit? Not really.

I looked up information, but I didn't really care after long, I said what I wanted to say and then I was done. You have you opinions and I have mine, we aren't going to change each others. I don't get why you can see that.

*Why don't you just edit your post when you have new information? Double posting is for newbies. Just thought I'd lighten the mood.

 

[PS]

I think its funny you are still going at this, just let it die for god sake. Do you really think I care if you think I'm a hypocrit? Not really.

I looked up information, but I didn't really care after long, I said what I wanted to say and then I was done. You have you opinions and I have mine, we aren't going to change each others. I don't get why you can see that.

*Why don't you just edit your post when you have new information? Double posting is for newbies. Just thought I'd lighten the mood.

I was citing seperate posts, which is perfectly within the confines of the AUP/ToS agreement.

 

[Concept]

PS, I'll end this with saying you've earned my respect. You're a smart guy and have tought me a thing or two.

Thanks.