End Times Prophecy...
- Thread starter Jpec07
- 223 comments
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- 5,842
- Forgotten Wing
What the heck are you talking about?
Ok, I admit, the Book of Revelation is a little hard to understand, but it's all in metaphor.
Say what?! You obviously have no clue what the heck you're talking about. John wrote Revelation after the Romans sent him to an island because they couldn't cause him to die (the John who was an apostle to Jesus himself). Therefore it could not have been written 200 years after the rest of the books of the New testament (it's more like 40 year later). If you're gonna try and talk about something, at least get a general idea of what you're talking about first. (BTW, where did you hear that it was 200 years, because I want to yell at that person).
Because the end is coming, and we're looking forward to a life in Heaven (infinitely better than things here could ever be).
- 19,783
- Alabamamania
It's not really written by John. If that's the case, maybe it was "unpublished" for several decades after he wrote it...
I don't believe the author was John the Baptist. Then again, the Book of John is quite the radical departure from the other 3 published gospels, and showed God's Son in a rather different light than the other tales.That makes sence, since John was part of a Jewish cult that was baptising people for over a century before Jesus was born. They, too, were waiting for an "Apocalypse" (mind you, it was mearly a place name where the end of the world would occur) and getting themselves ready for the Messiah.
The book doesn't jive with me because it's rather ambiguous, and pandered to the audience at the time; it told of how bad people are going to have it when Jesus comes back. Maybe I'm too interested in Eastern religions, but revelation, to me, means a breakthrough in this life, not the next one.
I don't believe the author was John the Baptist. Then again, the Book of John is quite the radical departure from the other 3 published gospels, and showed God's Son in a rather different light than the other tales.That makes sence, since John was part of a Jewish cult that was baptising people for over a century before Jesus was born. They, too, were waiting for an "Apocalypse" (mind you, it was mearly a place name where the end of the world would occur) and getting themselves ready for the Messiah.
The book doesn't jive with me because it's rather ambiguous, and pandered to the audience at the time; it told of how bad people are going to have it when Jesus comes back. Maybe I'm too interested in Eastern religions, but revelation, to me, means a breakthrough in this life, not the next one.
- 10,832
Exactly. Those who sit around and prophesize doom and punishment are of no use, superfluous people, dead weight. I'm sure their god would agree. This is not a holding tank, it is Life. Live it or waste it fantasizing about after your dead, cursing those who don't believe your way with scripture.
- 5,842
- Forgotten Wing
Honestly, you're humiliating yourself and your family. I didn't say John the Baptist (he was killed very soon after Jesus ascended into heaven). I said the apostle John (if you don't know the difference, then you have no right to even be saying the kind of crap that you are saying). And what's this of a "cult"? do you mean the prophets who predicted that the messiah would come? I honestly don't know if they did any baptising, but they certainly weren't a cult. And besides, John the baptist was special because he knew the Messiah when he came, and he was born of Mary's sister (I think it was her sister, if not it was a relative). And no, they weren't waiting for an apocalypse, they were waiting for a Messiah to fulfil the prophecies (that's why premarital sex was taboo in those days). And John the Baptist didn't write the gosple of John, it was another person. Honestly pupik, you need to read the Bible before you start pulling things out of thin air...
- 5,842
- Forgotten Wing
Ok, those prophecies were given to humans to warn us of the things to come, not to scare us or make us stop living. And you're right, if all they do is focus on all the doom and destruction that the end times will drag with them, then God would see them as dead weight (not lost causes, just deadweight). However, in the Bible, where it talks about the spiritual gifts and such (I Corinthians 13) it says in verse 2 "If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." So basically we can yap on about the future all we want, but if we don't do it for the benefit of others (spiritually, emotionally, informationally...) then it is dead weight. And it's not "fantasizing", it's called faith (the belief in and evidence of things unseen). Everyone has it (if you want me to elaborate then I shall). But for now, just don't try to disuade people from their opinions, this is just a place to voice them (fact and opinion are two separate entities, don't confuse me correcting Pupik on his misinformation as me arguing opinion).
- 935
Ah. But when opinion is cleverly disguised as fact, it can be very convincing. Like in the Book of Revelations for instance.
- 5,842
- Forgotten Wing
ok, that's not someone's opinion, that's a "revelation" from God to the Apostle John about how things would be in the end times, it's not something he sat around for years and thought up (most of the prophecies are in the works as I type this, and some have already happened). I'm going to say that there is a fine line between opinion and fact. Opinion, by definition, involves a belief in something. Fact is the definition. Your opinion is which version of the facts you believe. That cannot be changed by anyone but you.
- 935
Actually, fact has nothing to do with what you believe, it is what is the truth. I am saying that the book of revalations is an opinion (even if it is the opinion of god). There is no way that a prophecy can ever be considered fact, because it is, at most, a prediction no matter what anyone's opinion is of it. Even if it "comes true," it was still an opinion at the time of its creation. I belive you are confusing religion with fact and opinion.
If you are a Christian then it is fact. God is truth. This is what Christians believe. This is what I believe. If God is truth then how can He speak anything but truth? He knows the beginning from the end. Opinion? Not to Christians. I think you are confusing non Christians opinion on opinions with Christians opinions of facts.
We believe these things to be truth because we know personally Him who said it.
We believe these things to be truth because we know personally Him who said it.
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
That, in itself, is an opinion.
Facts are not made by people believing them. Facts are made by being true, objectively, regardless of the frame of reference. You can define the word how you wish to suit your faith but it does not make it a correct definition and it does not make it TRUE.
Sorry, bud, but neither Christians nor Jews nor Muslims nor Buddhists nor Mormons nor Left-Handed Seventh-day Evangelistic Anabaptists have cornered the market on truth.
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
People are looking for the end of the world - always have, and always will - for several reasons:
1) It's always easier to be taken seriously as a pessimist than an optimist. How much of what is considered "literature" has a Romantic (note the capital 'R'), optimistic outlook? Almost none of it - anybody who's been through high school can tell you that. It's a wonder that suicide is not the #1 cause of death in the world if life sucks that badly.
2) People insist on taking themselves and their beliefs too seriously. No one wants to believe that whatever is happening to them and their world is not the utmost, ultimate event in history. It gives them a feeling of self-importance to think they are living through the most desperate days and that "they were there" at the Beginning Of The End.
3) People for some reason can't deal with the concept that Sometimes Bad Things Just Happen. So it all has to be justified as some burden to be borne, some trial to be passed, some way of reaching that final reward.
All of this is very different from what I think and feel.
Any votes on whether or not I should move this to the Opinions Forum?
I'm not looking for the end. I know it's comming someday whether I'm here or not. I believe it's probably sooner than most people think but I'm not concerned enough about it to dwell on it too much. I'm confident about what will happen and what the final outcome will be.
Like I said earlier. I know the facts whether anyone else believes them to be facts or not.
#2. People shouldn't take their beliefs seriously? What good are beliefs then? We are in no way living in the most desperate days. Those were the days when Christians were being slaughtered just for being Christians. It's pretty easy right now to be a Christian.
#3. I have no trouble with the concept that bad things happen. (even to good people.) That's life. No one ever said it would be easy. It's how we choose to deal with bad things that makes the difference. It will make us stronger or destroy us.
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
I was speaking in very general terms. Obviously not every person thinks that the world is ending and that life sucks and then (or, until) you die.
If you don't think I take my beliefs seriously, then you haven't read much of what I've posted on this board.
Not just wrong for me, wrong. Remember that real truth does not change depending on the frame of reference.
If you don't think I take my beliefs seriously, then you haven't read much of what I've posted on this board.
Like I said earlier, the number of people who believe something has no bearing on whether it is a fact or not. You need to reconsider the real meaning of the word fact. I'll take it as given that you've already considered your faith, which isn't the question. But to claim it as an incontrovertible fact is wrong.
Not just wrong for me, wrong. Remember that real truth does not change depending on the frame of reference.
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
Many many people choose to deal with bad things by blaming them (at great length and volume) on God or Fate or something besides an obscure coincidence out of an immeasurable number of possibilities.
Many of those people then choose to see it as a trial they must pass on the way to glory, or a punishment for mankind's "sins", or some other overblown justification, rather than something that is simply dealt with and moved beyond.
- 3,194
Duke your slayin' 'em,... your really on a tear in this topic 👍
My opinion on the matter,... everything Duke says
(which, I suppose, wouldnt make it my opinions, but, hey,.. sounds right to me.)
My opinion on the matter,... everything Duke says
(which, I suppose, wouldnt make it my opinions, but, hey,.. sounds right to me.)
- 5,842
- Forgotten Wing
This is an ongoing healthy debate (no names have been thrown, this is good). I just have 1 question for you: What do you believe is the truth (in other words, what do you think about all this stuff, seeing as how everyone else is wrong)? And yes, it was late and I was tired when I made my splerge last night. The line is fine between fact and opinion. Fact is what is, opinion involves belief. The fact is that none of us were alive in the times described in the Bible, and so none of us knows what actually happened. We believe that all of the things in the past happened as our history books and teachers have said, because it makes sense (not to mention that it coincides with evidence, which is a necessary part). This is what is called the public opinion (what most people believe to be the truth). personal opinion, however, goes beyond the textbooks. if I were to say "Aliens crashlanded on earth at Roswell," most of you wouldn't believe me This is your choice and your s alone. My opinion has no power over yours. Just as I may have evidence of what I believe and know, so may you. And the fact of the matter is that most people believe that they are right. This is what I meant.
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