Engine Braking in GT Academy

[hankolerd]

So this was something I saw last year that bugged me, and it seems it is still allowed in GT Academy 2015. When I watch the replays of the fastest guys, it seems quite a few of them use an engine braking technique of throwing the car into a very low gear, say from 5th to 2nd at ~120mph, and just let the engine bounce off redline to help get some extra braking force. It is no doubt that these guys are putting down very fast times and I know it is not completely because of this technique (they must have some skill as well), but it does bother me the "The Real Driving Simulator" does not check and penalize for this. If the winning GT Academy driver hopped in their race car and did the same I know they would be less than thrilled

Anyway, just wondering how other people feel about? Perhaps something to put in the GT Suggestions section.

/rant

 

[rehdogg15]

I find it annoying personally, but even without that we'll probably have the same people at the top. I wish it was faster without it though. I always imagine their car going BOOM when I see the replays

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

You do whatever you can, within the rules, to be the fastest in game. Driving in real life, as far as what you have described, is a completely different thing and I'm sure most everybody here understands that. I don't think anyone would abuse the car in the manner in which you have described in real life as they know what the consequences (blown engine, ect.) would be. Its common sense really.

 

[super_gt]

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

When it comes to motorsports, drivers and teams will push the envelope to gain that extra tenth. Hypothetically, if a real engine could endure such punishment for a prolonged time, you bet the fastest drivers will be doing it.

 

[ryzno]

Random stupidity was deleted....

 

[hankolerd]

I totally get race engines being built for abuse, and needing to be rebuilt between races (or in some cases after practice/qualifying, just look at the DTM in the 80's), and running an engine at the limiter is absolutely fine if you are revving the motor up to the limiter. But if 2nd gear hits the rev limiter at 70mph, and you are doing 120mph than shifting down to 2nd the engine does not just simply start bouncing off the rev limiter, at this point the rev limiter is completely helpless, and either your engine speed will spin way past what the rev limiter would normally allow bending many intake/exhaust valves and scarring your pistons, or if you are somewhat lucky the driven tires will experience a sharp lock-up (just as seen in that F40 video above).

Once the car is in a gear the speed of the tires has to match the speed of the engine for that gear, so either the motor spins up to match the speed of the tires, or the tires lock-up to match the speed of the engine.

 

[Mikey24]

Although the engine braking annoys me, the most annoying thing the faster drivers do is drift the car around the corners. To be fair, I don't think you'd do it in real life because you'd wreck the tyres in, like, three corners.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Although the engine braking annoys me, the most annoying thing the faster drivers do is drift the car around the corners. To be fair, I don't think you'd do it in real life because you'd wreck the tyres in, like, three corners.

Like I said before, this is a game, you do whatever you have to, to be fast regardless of what would happen in real life. Ebrake, drifting, engine braking, whatever it takes within the rules to lay down the fastest lap. Real life will call for a different approach, but for now we are working with game physics.

 

[Mikey24]

Like I said before, this is a game, you do whatever you have to, to be fast regardless of what would happen in real life. Ebrake, drifting, engine braking, whatever it takes within the rules to lay down the fastest lap. Real life will call for a different approach, but for now we are working with game physics.

Yeah that is true. It does take some practice though! I don't personally use the E-Brake or the drifting approach but I can't exactly just whack in a good time on my first few laps when trying it.

As somebody mentioned earlier, for a driving simulator, it seems to be pretty lenient on this kind of driving. 👍

 

[ryzno]

I understand what you are saying and added the actual dropping of the clutch in a ridiculous gear into account.

I don't think it has anything to do with leniency, PD doesn't have that form of engine damage programed into the game. If you can hit the shift right, the rear tires can lock for a instant and make you slide(or completely disengage(gray/neutral) with a 5th to 2nd shift), but the only engine braking you get is for the quick period the gear indicator is lit. When the gear indicator turns grey, it pretty much is like holding the clutch the car coasts and stays at the exact RPM of the limiter, until the car reaches the appropriate speed, then it engages again.

I'm using a DFGT so obviously I have no clutch pedal, so if it can be done with a clutch I'll shut up and move along.

When I watch the replays of the fastest guys, it seems quite a few of them use an engine braking technique of throwing the car into a very low gear, say from 5th to 2nd at ~120mph, and just let the engine bounce off redline to help get some extra braking force.

 

[Hobson]

They could build the engine to be abused. Drifters for example, they almost stay on the limiter.

Race engines are built with power in mind and as little material as possible in a hope that the engine will survive the race.

I'm sorry but this is going to bother me. Drifter's don't stay on the limiter. It's a fantastic way to stress your engine out to the max; Like crazzzzzyyy xD It's nuts. And nobody wants to rebuild their engine after each run/heat, because that's a pain in the arse. Mainly where throttle control comes into play in order to stay within the power-band in the selected gear.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Yeah that is true. It does take some practice though! I don't personally use the E-Brake or the drifting approach but I can't exactly just whack in a good time on my first few laps when trying it.

As somebody mentioned earlier, for a driving simulator, it seems to be pretty lenient on this kind of driving. 👍

And you do have a point and I also agree that things could be closer to real life with this game, but we work with what we have. I remember the whole e-brake thing when it first started being used in TT's and how much I hated the fact that others who used it seemingly had an advantage in getting faster lap times.....until I learned how to use it and be fast with it. Anyways, nice talking to you and good luck in the Academy competitions here.

 

[ryzno]

More stupidity...

 

[Hobson]

A little over exaggerated I'll reword that.

I'm sorry~ I've just seen some really weird things around the track and GT itself xD

 

[ryzno]

And even more...

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Like I said before, this is a game, you do whatever you have to, to be fast regardless of what would happen in real life. Ebrake, drifting, engine braking, whatever it takes within the rules to lay down the fastest lap. Real life will call for a different approach, but for now we are working with game physics.

Exactly. About the only thing that won't be tolerated is finding a way to cut the course or ride a wall without penalty. That's happened before and the track/car combo changed.

 

[Mikey24]

Anyways, nice talking to you and good luck in the Academy competitions here.

Cheers CargoRatt, you too (if you're doing it).

 

[PJTierney]

Never heard of this technique before, is it something that can only be done by a non-sequential gear change (ie: a H-Pattern shifter)?

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Never heard of this technique before, is it something that can only be done by a non-sequential gear change (ie: a H-Pattern shifter)?

Most likely if you want 5th straight to 2nd but super fast downshifts can be done as well. Personally, I do it mainly for time trial only. Do it wrong and you'll go wide carrying more speed than intended.

 

[hankolerd]

^ That. I imagine the top times are doing it through very fast successive downshifts, though the same could be accomplished with an h-shifter.

 

[ryzno]

I'll assume my second post was ignored. Seems to be the norm for me...

And as I said in the post everyone ignored, I can't replicate any real form of engine braking. It goes straight to gray/neutral with 2 quick shifts.

I'm using a DFGT so obviously I have no clutch pedal, so if it can be done with a clutch I'll shut up and move along.

So read this. It's a game, the game is not a real driving simulator, if the lap ain't red it's good, the clutch system sucks form what I've read. So, if you can't beat them, join them.........

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

I'll assume my second post was ignored. Seems to be the norm for me...

And as I said in the post everyone ignored, I can't replicate any real form of engine braking. It goes straight to gray/neutral with 2 quick shifts.




So read this. It's a game, the game is not a real driving simulator, if the lap ain't red it's good, the clutch system sucks form what I've read. So, if you can't beat them, join them.........

I've pretty much said just this several posts ago....probably why everyone ignored you.

 

[PJTierney]

Most likely if you want 5th straight to 2nd but super fast downshifts can be done as well. Personally, I do it mainly for time trial only. Do it wrong and you'll go wide carrying more speed than intended.

I wonder if it's possible on a DS3, would probably need to be super fast with the downshift button.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

When will the GTA TT have tire wear on very fast , that will make things more interesting

 

[super_gt]

I wonder if it's possible on a DS3, would probably need to be super fast with the downshift button.

Yes it is possible with DS3,click the downshift button three times and you will downshift from 5th to 2nd.
If you are fast enough it will take no more than one second.

 

[ODB]

The way it seems to me is that you can abuse downshift, but it totally depends on the car how much you can do it, and if it actually helps. Right timing is important to get the best out of engine brake, so simply jamming the gears down as fast as you can won't help that much, but with right rhythm it makes a lot of difference!

 

[PJTierney]

Yes it is possible with DS3,click the downshift button three times and you will downshift from 5th to 2nd.
If you are fast enough it will take no more than one second.

Okay, I'll try it out.

I assumed that on a DS3 the clutch is automatically applied whenever you press to shift, which is why I mentioned H-Patterns initially since the DS3 is sequential.

 

[Johnnypenso]

When will the GTA TT have tire wear on very fast , that will make things more interesting

All that will do is waste time. Instead of being able to do multiple consecutive laps, you'll just have to hit restart over and over at whatever point the tire wear kicks in. Completely pointless IMO. The same drivers will still end up at the top regardless.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

All that will do is waste time. Instead of being able to do multiple consecutive laps, you'll just have to hit restart over and over at whatever point the tire wear kicks in. Completely pointless IMO. The same drivers will still end up at the top regardless.

And that was not the point at all. With tire wear on, drivers won't easily abuse the physics, that was the point. To get fast, now you have to conserve the tires, not slide around. Now the smooth driver can get quick times, not the other way around. Doesn't matter who came on top for me.

There is no kick in time for tire wear, with very fast wear rate set. Have you ever tried very fast wear online on comfort soft or sports soft ? It's not so simple to just do hot lap run anymore for one magic lap.