Enthusia - Better Racing Than GT4?

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luchi
3. Tie A spec & B Spec points into the licensing system. This way, players would have to reach points targets in order to become eligible to earn licenses. This would encourage players to enter challenging events. At the moment there is no incentive to enter a competitive car into an event, with players instead turning up for most events with cars that tower over the opposition. Players who enter races with cars similar in performance to their AI rivals should see their larger A spec points go towards the chance to get new licenses before players who try to dominate with overpowered vehicles.][/b]
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This attitude seems to becoming more and more popular on these forums, and it really bothers me. People keep saying over and over that they want the game to limit how somebody plays the game. Your idea would make it much more difficult for some people to enjoy the game, just so you can feel smug and superior to them because you unlocked all the cars and tracks. Some people don't really like the racing stuff, they just want to drive around with as many different cars and on as many different tracks as possible. I mean, what the hell do you care if somebody uses an outclassed car to win a race? I like competitive racing with the AI, so chose to select a competitive car, my roommate likes winning, in fact, likes running into the other cars, and slows down so he can run into them again! What is wrong with that? Does it detract from my enjoyment of the game? Hell no! Because I have the dicsipline to enter the more difficult car and work at it to win. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from entering a competitive or less-than-competitive car. It is your choice. Why do you need an incentive? If you like close racing, that should be incentive enough.
 
In my opinion no other game will ever come close to the gt series just cos it has the depth that no other game has. It has a vast amount of up to date and classic cars to chose from as well as various game modes. Enthusia may offer a slightly more realistic driving physics but it will never beat gt for the overall package.
 
Locost7Rules
This attitude seems to becoming more and more popular on these forums, and it really bothers me. People keep saying over and over that they want the game to limit how somebody plays the game. Your idea would make it much more difficult for some people to enjoy the game, just so you can feel smug and superior to them because you unlocked all the cars and tracks. Some people don't really like the racing stuff, they just want to drive around with as many different cars and on as many different tracks as possible. I mean, what the hell do you care if somebody uses an outclassed car to win a race? I like competitive racing with the AI, so chose to select a competitive car, my roommate likes winning, in fact, likes running into the other cars, and slows down so he can run into them again! What is wrong with that? Does it detract from my enjoyment of the game? Hell no! Because I have the dicsipline to enter the more difficult car and work at it to win. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from entering a competitive or less-than-competitive car. It is your choice. Why do you need an incentive? If you like close racing, that should be incentive enough.
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Well said 👍 👍 👍
 
I look forward to Enthusia, but, let's face it: Any Game with Nurburgring >>>>>>>>>>>> A Game Without It. :)

Has anyone seen the full tuning menu for Enthusia? Does it even have one?
 
dolande
Well said 👍 👍 👍
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I agree. I mean, I am a big fan of PS2, and I like gaming. But, I also train soccer, I go out with my friends, and I`ve got a social life, so I am not a FANATIC player. I thought I was, but when I saw what are some people on this forum saying and doing, my idea fell down like a house of cards. I mean, if GT4 isn`t realistic enough, then take your bloddy car, or steal one, and take it to the nearest raceway and enjoy in realism! GT4 is the real driving simulator, but not only for those who would like to spend 20 hours on "that last one gold medal", but also for people who are just fans of nice cars, nice tracks, and nice gaming expirience. I loved GT3, and I can`t wait to get myself DFP and GT4, and I haven`t got any doubts about that this is going to be THE race game of my life. Until GT5 ofcorse :)
O yeah, for those Schumachers, Hakkinens, Buttons out there, if GT4 is babygame for you, then try this link, maybe they will be hard enough for ya: www.fia.com
 
NIck_chap
In my opinion no other game will ever come close to the gt series just cos it has the depth that no other game has. It has a vast amount of up to date and classic cars to chose from as well as various game modes. Enthusia may offer a slightly more realistic driving physics but it will never beat gt for the overall package.
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Don't be so sure. It's not out yet, so we can't make good judgments. Also, who is to say that a racing game in the near future can surpass the GT series? No one knows.
 
That HP meter information has just killed my interest in the game. That sounds dumb. I'd rank it with Moto GP's increase in clock speed when you go off the track. A lame contrivance.
 
HP meter sounds pretty dumb ... A realistic damage system paired with cost to fix damage and, if severe, loss of the car would be a much better deterence to poor driving ...

One thing I hate about Gran Turismo are excessive prize cars ... They should give you more money for most of the races instead with only a few of the more difficult races giving prize cars ... And getting a car for all bronzes in the licenses is pretty retarded as well ... You should get a road cars for all silver and all gold in the A & B licenses, road cars for all silver and race cars for all gold in IA and IB, and race cars for all silver and all gold in Super ...
 
I know I'm gonna try out Enthusia when it comes out. If it's better than GT4, then I'll keep on playing it, but if not, I'll just go back to GT4. I'm not liking that "Enthusia points" though. I can't speak for most people, but I don't like getting penalized because I took a turn a little too wide, or traded paint with someone on a corner, because I'm not a perfect driver. Stuff happens when you race. To me, those few tenths of a second are more of a penalty. It's sort of like how I hate the penalizing system in the GT4 Special Condition Events. In a real race, you dont get penalized for running into a wall or trading paint with someone. What you get is a messed up car, and you can't race anymore, or you get a severely pissed off opponent.

As long as the game doesn't hinder my ability to have fun, I'll enjoy it. But when they start throwing in stuff to make the gameplay more "challenging" and take away from the nature of racing, that's where I draw the line.
 
Why does nobody pick up on what Sega GT did?
I dont own an xbox, but ive played that game enough. There was no physical damage to my recolection, so all racing games that do not have damage to cars can fall into this category. Anyways, they had a Damage meter, and everytime you nailed a wall or hit another car hard (not like a love top, but hit another car) the meter would decrease a certain amount, and at the end of the race, the cost to "repair" or fill up that meter again came out of you winnings.

It was a good system imo and i dont see why no other game utilizes something similar, its a good alternative to not having real damage that has to be reapaired. Its also not corny in the sense that if you hit a wall you're regulated to 30mph (that is just annoying, especially when you get rear ended) but if you get rear ended and take damage, you can still spead away, and only have to lose some money. rather than lose the race and have to do it again.
 
Blues
It was a good system imo and i dont see why no other game utilizes something similar, its a good alternative to not having real damage that has to be reapaired. Its also not corny in the sense that if you hit a wall you're regulated to 30mph (that is just annoying, especially when you get rear ended) but if you get rear ended and take damage, you can still spead away, and only have to lose some money. rather than lose the race and have to do it again.
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This would make a lot more sense than the stupid penalties (and not to mention more realistic). I hope the next GT will have a similar system.

Honestly, the HP meter system isn't too bad. It's still better than the penalties IMO.
 
Blues
Why does nobody pick up on what Sega GT did?
I dont own an xbox, but ive played that game enough. There was no physical damage to my recolection, so all racing games that do not have damage to cars can fall into this category. Anyways, they had a Damage meter, and everytime you nailed a wall or hit another car hard (not like a love top, but hit another car) the meter would decrease a certain amount, and at the end of the race, the cost to "repair" or fill up that meter again came out of you winnings.

It was a good system imo and i dont see why no other game utilizes something similar, its a good alternative to not having real damage that has to be reapaired. Its also not corny in the sense that if you hit a wall you're regulated to 30mph (that is just annoying, especially when you get rear ended) but if you get rear ended and take damage, you can still spead away, and only have to lose some money. rather than lose the race and have to do it again.
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Oh dont even get me started on when the AI hits you from behind. does he get a 5 sec penalty? heck no.

but when you hit him from behind you get a 5 second penalty.

Wack.


If he turns into YOU, guess what, 5 second penalty, On YOU!

Wack x2


<waves finger infront of PD's Face> bad, bad!
 
Not sure about the HP meter. I agree with the concepts of reduced points for bad driving, but it better not reduce the hp of the car though. Hopefully "HP" means something other than "horse power" and it isn't as hokey as it sounds.

Now, the videos of the real v. Enthusia look incredible and will probably be enough for me to at least try it. That is to say if they have the tuning features as well. Not being able to upgrade and tune different components separately would be a HUGE dissapointment.

I also hope they do a better job of the menu system. Like upgrading a car. I want to create a shopping list of everything I want, then install it all. It takes MUCH longer than it should to upgrade a car, piece by piece, system by system in GT4. That, and I hope there is a way to default the TCS/ASM aids to "0". It is annoying that every car, every configuration set, I have to go back to change all the aids to 0.

I will ultimately reserve judgement on Enthusia until it comes out, but it looks promising.
 
I gotta say, I agree with the poster above regarding A and B-spec points. I realize that many people begrudge how anyone can take any car, mod it to the max then destroy the competition at the Sunday Cub in their CLK-GTR, but if the game required a considerable amount of practice and skill to really get anywhere I think it would turn off more people than it would please. Not everyone is buying the game to battle in every corner and spend an hour doing a championship only to come in second and have to do it again. Some people, me included, just like racing whichever car they like the best, and if that means the race cars then so be it. Not everyone cares about things like days and resets if they don't gold a license on the first try just so you don't waste a game day, or even try for gold. Personally, I got sick of the licenses after iA completing the iA, I bought the game to race and drive cars, not to fail licenses for running on to the grass within sight of the finish line after driving for 3 minutes. I know the licenses make you a better driver (sometimes, or teach you how to follow a demo to a tee) :) . I get that some people love that stuff, that's why there are rewards for doing it. Also, that's why Mission Hall was added, I think. I just want to race, as many cars as possible, I like competition, but not so much that if I make a small error I lose the race. I like tuning cars, but I'm not interested in playing with gear ratios and suspension set-ups for every race. I'm glad all that stuff is there (including the licenses 👍 ), and sometimes it's fun, but arcade mode - racing Subaru 360's around the Super Speedway with a friend is no less fun in my books.
(B-spec points are useful, the more of them the better your driver gets, and you get them whether you win or not too!)

Also, I heard you don't buy cars in Enthusia, but just unlock them by winning. i.e. if you want an Evo, winning a 4wd race by a lot will give you a good chance of unlocking it.

I hate those 5 second penalties
 
I agree that it's good for the game to let players do what they want. If it catered to hard core racers only, then it just couldn't have the broad appeal that gives GT a huge audience.

However...

As a hard core racer, I wish for some features... which can be optional features... to make the game more challenging and therefore fun for me. And these include things like penalties of some sort for hitting other cars or the wall (I favor the 5 second penalty that's been added. I wish it was available everywhere, not just the rally).

Most particularly, I would like the game to help me find which of my cars will make a particular race challenging. As it is now, you only know by actually entering the race... and then guestimating how far off you are from the other cars. If you could see the car list and hp/weight ratios from the menu, that'd be a big help.


As for Enthusia... any race game that gives you boost/hp bonuses on the track for doing certain things is, to me, immediately disqualified from the class of 'realistic race simulator' and therefore should be compared to Need for Speed, Burn Out, etc because it is an arcade game just like they are. GT should only be compared to other realistic simulators.

This isn't too say that arcade type racing games aren't fun. They are. But it's a totally different genre in my book. And I enjoy them for different reasons entirely.

- Skant
 
Skant
As for Enthusia... any race game that gives you boost/hp bonuses on the track for doing certain things is, to me, immediately disqualified from the class of 'realistic race simulator' and therefore should be compared to Need for Speed, Burn Out, etc because it is an arcade game just like they are. GT should only be compared to other realistic simulators.

This isn't too say that arcade type racing games aren't fun. They are. But it's a totally different genre in my book. And I enjoy them for different reasons entirely.

- Skant
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Its no less of a SIM than GT4.
 
The more the better. I am glad this game is coming for the PS2 due to Logitechs GT Force Pro wheel. Enthusia does look promising. Though GT4 has flaws, I will over look them and play GT4 as it is the only racing game out on consoles that I like. I believe truely that Forza Motorsports and Enthusia will not only provide a great deal of fun, but they will also push not only each other to create better racing games but also will push GT4 to become better.
 
The one thing that irks me with GT's "rules" is the fact they're harsher than any real racing series. It's a case of "You've just messed up royally, so here, we're going to mess you up even more."
 
lynk26
It's sort of like how I hate the penalizing system in the GT4 Special Condition Events. In a real race, you dont get penalized for running into a wall or trading paint with someone.
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ive heard that in SCCA touring events points are docked for hitting other drivers and cones and getting off the track? i noticed in someones sig it said that they were an SCCA member. maybe he could shed some light on that. but anyway i wouldnt like the point docking method IF it were to be used. might be different if the AI drivers could get penalized as well but we all know thats not going to happen.
 
maybe this was said before but i didnt feel like reading 3 pages of stuff. u make these "realistic" games all u want but u guys are still gonna complain. enthusia will cause a little stir but wont do much i dont think. u have to realize, these people try to make money which means appealing to as large of a crowd as possible. so if the drifting and rallying physics "suck" than thats just too bad...this game has the closest physics to real life that ive ever seen. some are just dissapointed that u cant go into a hairpin at 100mph in rally then call it fake. i dont know though...i guess my point is, enthusia can have all the retarded point systems that it wants but its gonna sell less than half of what gt4 sells and it will be the newer and supposed to be, more advanced game. if gt4 had that points system, 90% of the owners would be pissed off. too gimicky.
 
Hmm....I was wondering on that wheel they might come out with. Enthusia has a clutch, so does that mean that Konami's wheel will have a clutch too?

I'm very interested to see how this new wheel is (that is, if they actually decide to mass-produce it).
 
I don't get why everyone is being turned off by the HP system. IT STILL HAS BETTER PHYSICS THEN GT4 SO REAL THAT SONY SAID MAYBE THAT ITS TOO REAL AND MIGHT NOT BE FUN.

Look at the logger video again, I think you guys totally missed the point of Enthusia. IT NOT TRYING TO BE NFSU its trying to be the best driving simulator possible.
 
Wow, I didnt expect such a response from my post but its been good to hear a real mix of opinions on the subjects raised.

There are a few things I want to clarify first, based on some misunderstandings on my initial message: -

1. In Enthusia, the HP meter has nothing to do with the cars horsepower. From what I have seen, the performance of the player's car is not affected by this meter going down. I think of this meter almost like a black flag, in the sense that if the player continually drove badly, going off track, hitting barriers and bashing other cars, they would be black flagged (like in real life, assuming they didnt already wreck their car). Whatever the system is called, I like the idea of drivers being rewarded for the quality of their driving. We're not talking boosts, score bonuses or anything else so arcadelike.

2. Several people have posted replies saying that its up to the player to have the discipline to limit the performance of their car when entering an event. I completely agree but its worth pointing out that in Turismo mode you never always know who will enter the race against you. I could enter a race with a car thinking it should be a good match only to find that it is way better than the AI cars entered. This is yet another reason why I favour arcade mode (which is anything but arcade like in nature). I choose whatever car I like and can set the game to pick cars worse than, equal to or better than my car. Then when the game has loaded, I can access the quick setup menu and make last minute changes to my car to make it less or more competitive. Its a lottery when it comes to guessing your opponents in Turismo mode. I've had races where I've entered a competitive car and been thrashed by another car. I then decided to purchase that same car in order to race on a more even level, only to find that the same car did not enter the race when I re-raced it. The result was me having the best car on the grid and thrashing the opposition. I applaud player discipline but I feel that Turismo does very little or nothing to encourage it.

3. Several people have referred to preferring a damage system in Turismo. Whilst I would cautiously agree, my suggestions and my use of games such as Enthusia as an example are merely to demonstrate that development teams can include features that punish bad driving without creating huge amounts of extra work for themselves in the form of damage models, deformable meshes and handling effects.

From my own point of view, my favoured driving games have been on the PC of late, despite the fact that I don't have a PC at home and only ever play console games.

On my office PC I have Grand Prix Legends, Live For Speed & R-Factor installed, with Grand Prix Legends probably being my favourite (I cant believe that a game from '97 is still so good).

In the case of Turismo it almost seems as if they've named their game modes incorrectly. From my experience so far it feels like drivers who are after a challenge play arcade mode.

I hope Enthusia makes an impact because at the end of the day, competition is a good thing. From what I've played of Forza so far I'm not impressed, the framerate in particular being an issue (the demo almost felt like a Gotham expansion pack).

Despite all the time I've put into Turismo 4, barely a day goes by when I don't have a quick blast through the Nurburging with an M3, proof that the game delivers an exceptional driving experience.

Its just a shame that whilst the driving itself is of the highest quality, the racing and game structure are lacking.
 

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