Enthusia: Where's the Love ?

  • Thread starter MisterToad
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I can see that, since the DFP was designed for GT4, but as far as a DS2 standpoint, I think Enthusia hands GT4 its ass. The simulation of weight transfer seems pretty well done, easily spinning your car out of control if you upset the balance of the car going into the turn.
 
With the DFP, GT4 does a better job with bumps and texture, while Enthusia does a better job with steering wheel forces. :)

With the DS2, GT4 does a better job with being a chore, and Enthusia does a better job with being fun. :lol:

With either control device, GT4 does a better job with having inaccurate understeer, oversteer, and countersteer, Enthusia does a better job of simulating a car. :D

@Scaff: I'm exaggerating, here. :lol:
 
My sentiments exactly. 👍

Except I got sick of GT4 being wrong first, and then Enthusia came out and I bought it and played it and etc.
 
I had recently started to get back into GT4 after several months away (seeing my expensive DFP sitting there unused stung a bit), this time starting the game with the default $10,000 and no licenses instead of importing GT3 money and licenses and buying a high powered car right from the start. At some point during this time, I stumbled across the video comparing Enthusia to a real world Miata on an autocross style course, and had found myself impressed.

I was then browsing the local Best Buy one night when I came across a couple copies of Enthusia, which was listed for just $20. I distinctly remember seeing early previews for this game, but my enthusiasm for it had tapered off once GT4 came out, particularly since Enthusia received lukewarm reviews when it finally was released. But at $20, how can one go wrong?

What a hidden gem this $20 purchase turned out to be! The driving model is far and away vastly superior to that of GT4 (which I had previously thought relatively realistic - mainly because it was the only solid reference point I had on a gaming console). The steering is more intuitive, low speed car behavior much more realistic. Off-the-line tire modeling actually works: no more excessive 1st gear spins from an idle roll in a 200 hp RWD car. Most cars accelerate in a fairly realistic fashion (is it just me, or does Enthusia do a better job than GT4 of modeling a naturally aspirated engine's power curve?). Oh, and did I mention that in Enthusia, a V8 actually sounds like a V8? I tried out the R230 SL500 (one of my real world cars) as soon as I had the opportunity, and true to form, GT4's version sounds like a badly synthesized imitation in comparison. I also enjoyed driving a variety of cars in which I have extensive real world seat time (both street and track) and seeing how certain handling quirks specific to those cars are usually apparent in Enthusia's version.

By the way, the E30 M3 should be standard issue for every driving/racing game that features licensed road cars.

If somebody could combine the track selection and career format used in GT4 with the driving model and sound of Enthusia, you'd have a nearly unbeatable simulation.
 
orubasarot
And if that happened I would basically be the least productive person on earth.
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Dude, no one beats me as the least productive person... :ill: (Kidding)

I'm really worried that Konami is not making the sequel because of lack of recognition and profit...
 
I've yet to try Forza, mainly due to my lack of having a working X-Box (the one I do have is an unreliable piece of crap). I've heard it's very similar to GT4 in many respects. I've also heard that Forza's version of the Nordschleife is pretty bad, at least when compared to GT4 and Enthusia.

I do have to admit that, while the car customization sounds pretty cool, it definitely attracts the ricier segment of the car enthusiast world.
 
akhbhaat
I had recently started to get back into GT4 after several months away (seeing my expensive DFP sitting there unused stung a bit), this time starting the game with the default $10,000 and no licenses instead of importing GT3 money and licenses and buying a high powered car right from the start. At some point during this time, I stumbled across the video comparing Enthusia to a real world Miata on an autocross style course, and had found myself impressed.

I was then browsing the local Best Buy one night when I came across a couple copies of Enthusia, which was listed for just $20. I distinctly remember seeing early previews for this game, but my enthusiasm for it had tapered off once GT4 came out, particularly since Enthusia received lukewarm reviews when it finally was released. But at $20, how can one go wrong?

What a hidden gem this $20 purchase turned out to be! The driving model is far and away vastly superior to that of GT4 (which I had previously thought relatively realistic - mainly because it was the only solid reference point I had on a gaming console). The steering is more intuitive, low speed car behavior much more realistic. Off-the-line tire modeling actually works: no more excessive 1st gear spins from an idle roll in a 200 hp RWD car. Most cars accelerate in a fairly realistic fashion (is it just me, or does Enthusia do a better job than GT4 of modeling a naturally aspirated engine's power curve?). Oh, and did I mention that in Enthusia, a V8 actually sounds like a V8? I tried out the R230 SL500 (one of my real world cars) as soon as I had the opportunity, and true to form, GT4's version sounds like a badly synthesized imitation in comparison. I also enjoyed driving a variety of cars in which I have extensive real world seat time (both street and track) and seeing how certain handling quirks specific to those cars are usually apparent in Enthusia's version.

By the way, the E30 M3 should be standard issue for every driving/racing game that features licensed road cars.

If somebody could combine the track selection and career format used in GT4 with the driving model and sound of Enthusia, you'd have a nearly unbeatable simulation.
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Agreed, especially the M3 comment. ;) :lol:

akhbhaat
I've yet to try Forza, mainly due to my lack of having a working X-Box (the one I do have is an unreliable piece of crap). I've heard it's very similar to GT4 in many respects. I've also heard that Forza's version of the Nordschleife is pretty bad, at least when compared to GT4 and Enthusia.

I do have to admit that, while the car customization sounds pretty cool, it definitely attracts the ricier segment of the car enthusiast world.
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Forza is almost as floaty as the Colin McRae games, and no more realistic than GT4. The graphics, especially concerning the tracks, are VERY bland, and look very unpolished, like some sort of leaked E3 demo. The real-life tracks themselves are mis-proportioned, ESPECIALLY the Nürburgring. The customization works well enough, but it's pretty much just Gran Turismo customization with some visual modification options thrown in for some of the cars.

What Forza does have going for it is the availibility of very comprehensive online play, some tracks and cars that aren't featured in GT4 or Enthusia, and the customizability, engine swaps most of all.
 
Tried going back to GT4 today. Definitely nowhere near Enthusia in terms of driving dynamics and physics. First thing I noticed is how well planted the back end of GT4's RWD cars are, even when completely on the throttle in fairly tight corners. It takes a 500 hp car (M5) with street tires to get any sort of throttle oversteer. Terrible. Even my 190 hp 325i daily driver can throw the rear a bit if you really get on it.
 
orubasarot
Today I'm trying to get back into GT4 after playing Enthusia for a long time, I just wanted to tinker with customized cars, maybe find some obscure 80s Japanese box and slap a supercharger on it, but I can't get into the game at all, the feeling is all wrong. Not "different" but wrong, and it's most obvious in cornering, and especially drifting, which seems like a good test of physics realism. Now I don't really play either games just to drift, but when something as basic as that is completely malfunctioning, I can no longer take the game seriously.

I'm downloading some drifting videos of GT4 and can't believe people can actually do it, I'm trying the same moves with the same cars as the videos, and contrasting that with Enthusia, and can't get over the hypersensitivity. GT4's handbrake does absolutely nothing, creating oversteer with the gas pedal is often useless, or at least really delayed, plus the grip is insane, even on economy tires GT4 feels like its on rails compared to (most cars in) Enthusia, except these rails understeer and snap oversteer at awkward times.

With GT4 I love Suzuka and playing with car customization but it seems like I'm stuck with Enthusia.
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Are you a girl? You're my soulmate!

Joking aside, i feel exactly the same way. I just can't go back to GT4. I really want to drive the M5, put hundreds of miles on Suzuka and Le mans but i the driving model seems all wrong tome.

This feels like a twightlight zone episode. We have the best racing game there is on consoles and everyone else dismisses it completely. It's like GT franchise brainshed everyone but a few of us.
 
Adam West
This feels like a twightlight zone episode. We have the best racing game there is on consoles and everyone else dismisses it completely. It's like GT franchise brainshed everyone but a few of us.
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Precisely the reason why I love you guys and this forum... :sly:

Anyway, think about it. Most of the public has no real understanding of how a car drives, and that includes the majority of game reviewers and consumers.

How do car manufacturers respond to this? By tuning their cars' suspensions so that they are more likely to understeer than oversteer. This way, they avoid lawsuits, maintain a "safe" image, and sell more cars.

How does Polyphony respond to this? By cranking up the understeer, and toning down the oversteer. This way, the loss of control is more easily understood by gamers, and the game's claim of ultimate realism isn't brought into question, and they sell more copies.

How does Konami respond to this? By going "screw all y'all" and aiming for as realistic a driving experience as possible. :lol: Brakes lock up, tail-ends kick out, wheelspin causes fishtailing, countersteer takes time to work, and people get frustrated. "Hmph, that game is too hard!" they cry, and run back to the "real driving simulator." After all, that's what it says on the box. Boxes are never wrong...

I'd like to once again bring up this hilarious quote, which I consider to be the highlight of GameSpot's Enthusia review... :lol:

GameSpot
Rear-wheel-drive cars are especially tough to drive in Enthusia, displaying a huge tendency for oversteer and requiring incredible amounts of patience (and driving touch) to be successful in. While the game touts an incredibly realistic physics engine, it's hard to believe rear-wheel-drive cars are this twitchy in real life. As one colleague put it to us, "If rear-wheel-drive cars handled in real life the way they do in Enthusia, no one would ever buy one."
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

:cheers:
 
Wolfe2x7
Forza is almost as floaty as the Colin McRae games, and no more realistic than GT4.
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I'd have to agree with everything you said except that. Compared to previous GT games, GT4 was an utter disappointment as far as physics go. I completely stopped playing GT4 all together when I got Forza. You can actually oversteer, and the handbrake actually works! Not to mention the phenomenal tire dynamics. As far as I have heard, yes, the Nurb is way off, but was made wider to accomodate online racing a little better. Its still a very fun track even though it may not be as accurate as in other games, and you will have no trouble racing on it if you are familiar with it.
NSX-R
We really NEED a realistic tunner game!!! Not decals, Not 22 inch rims, but bodykits that actually provide more air intake and downforce!!! Plus online-play of course!
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*cough*Forza*cough*

Ok I dont want to get too far off topic here, I think Enthusia blows both GT4 and Forza away. If only a physics model could be this accurate (and fun!) and have great online play. Im crossing my fingers that maybe Forza 2 will not disappoint.
 
NSX-R
Sorry, when I said "realistic", I meant "EPR-like-realistic"...
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Actually, I think that when he said "*cough*Forza*cough*" he only meant,

NSX-R
but bodykits that actually provide more air intake and downforce!!! Plus online-play of course!
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uM_Jammer
No they don't? The handbrake doesn't count.
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Ummm........Yes they do. If you don't believe me take a drive in a old school 300zx or any other pre '90's (meaning pre-ABS) cars. I garuntee you that if your brakes are in functional condition and you SLAM on the brakes you will lock up at least one front tire, Usually both. I've done a 4-wheel lock up before, my car is heavy on the rear brakes, they usually lock first.
 
GameSpot
Rear-wheel-drive cars are especially tough to drive in Enthusia, displaying a huge tendency for oversteer and requiring incredible amounts of patience (and driving touch) to be successful in. While the game touts an incredibly realistic physics engine, it's hard to believe rear-wheel-drive cars are this twitchy in real life. As one colleague put it to us, "If rear-wheel-drive cars handled in real life the way they do in Enthusia, no one would ever buy one."
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I was, at first, disappointed in the E30 M3 because I was having trouble keeping it on the road, until I finally got used to countersteering with the DFP after months of GT4 (countersteering is so unrealistic in GT4 that I often found it much easier to recover from oversteer by simply taking my foot off the throttle and neutralizing the wheel). Now I love the car as much as I love the real one.

No doubt, the dynamics of Enthusia's RWD cars are a vast improvement upon GT4. Drive the SL500, a RWD car. Like the real world version, it has a good bit of factory tuned understeer, and is very stable and forgiving on the road. Enthusia models this. It does not have a slippery rear axle, nor is it hard to drive, in the game or in real life. The real car has very grippy 285 tires out back to keep the rear in check (not to mention the fact that it lacks an LSD), whether on the throttle or not.

The above Gamespot quote is just laughable. Take nearly any RWD car in Enthusia and enter any corner with it, and don't touch the throttle...guess what? The rear remains compliant behind the front of the car. It's not good technique to stand on the throttle mid-corner anyway, unless you're either competing in a drift competition or trying to help the rear around in a really tight hairpin (this is, of course, assuming your car has enough power to completely overwhelm the rear tires in the first place). It's common sense that if you mash the throttle, you're going to eat up the traction available to the rear tires, and they're no longer going to be able to resist the lateral forces acting upon that portion of the car. Yep, oversteer.

It's much easier to have a subconscious lead foot in a video game where losing control and slamming into a wall or even sliding off the track has no consequence.
 
That GS'D quote is my new sig.

Picked this up yesterday for $20.

I fear too, that it might make all that time with GT4 a waste.
 
I also agree that Enthusia is highly underated as a racing game. It just came out at the worst possible time with other race games such as GT4, Forza, Midnight club 3. I ended up getting consumed with Forza and never played more than a cople hours of enthusia. I would like to pick it up again but now with NFS:most wanted coming out I fear that it will put me even further away from Enthusia. I hope to eventually get back to it.
It doesnt help any that its NOT online. Thats what pretty much makes or breaks a game these days. Thats why I many people quit playing GT4 when Forza came out.
 
I didn't quit GT4 when Forza came out, Forza is to GT4 as GT4 is to Enthusia.

Forza "feels" real until you play GT4, and realise just how silly the cars behave in Forza (auto-drift, anyone?), and GT4 comes across "feeling" more real by comparison.

Then you play Enthusia, and realise just how silly the cars behave in GT4 (auto-steer/unsteer, anyone?), and Enthusia reminds you what it feels like to drive a real car.

Oh, to whoever it was, that I THINK said in this thread that you should turn the force feedback all the way up to hard, THANK YOU!

GOD BLESS YOUR SOUL!

I couldn't figure out why I was having so much trouble feeling the oversteer, then I put the feedback up to hard and all of a sudden I get that one thing I thought GT4 had over Enthusia, the feeling of being connected to the car.

That is one thing GT4 does well with the DFP, it feels like you're really manipulating the car with it.

With Enthusia and hard feedback, it feels like you're actually manipulating the weight of the car though, instead of just the tires, and THAT has sealed the deal to me.

We need to spread the word to DFP users, pick up Enthusia, turn Feedback to hard, and try it, it is, as was said, a whole different game.
 
Onikaze
I didn't quit GT4 when Forza came out, Forza is to GT4 as GT4 is to Enthusia.

Forza "feels" real until you play GT4, and realise just how silly the cars behave in Forza (auto-drift, anyone?), and GT4 comes across "feeling" more real by comparison.

Then you play Enthusia, and realise just how silly the cars behave in GT4 (auto-steer/unsteer, anyone?), and Enthusia reminds you what it feels like to drive a real car.

Oh, to whoever it was, that I THINK said in this thread that you should turn the force feedback all the way up to hard, THANK YOU!

GOD BLESS YOUR SOUL!

I couldn't figure out why I was having so much trouble feeling the oversteer, then I put the feedback up to hard and all of a sudden I get that one thing I thought GT4 had over Enthusia, the feeling of being connected to the car.

That is one thing GT4 does well with the DFP, it feels like you're really manipulating the car with it.

With Enthusia and hard feedback, it feels like you're actually manipulating the weight of the car though, instead of just the tires, and THAT has sealed the deal to me.

We need to spread the word to DFP users, pick up Enthusia, turn Feedback to hard, and try it, it is, as was said, a whole different game.
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It's clearly noticable if you compare real video with Enthusia & GT4. Enthusia realism is far beyond GT4 in many point with the DFP.
 
orubasarot
Anybody else irritated by stuff like this? https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=72620 I wonder what the odds are of contacting anyone in Top Gear who gives a rat's ass, because exposure like that would really turn things around for Enthusia.

I know it's ridiculous to want Clarkson to jump into the GT4 vs. Enthusia debate since he doesn't know or care about videogames anyway, especially obscure ones, but it's an irresistible fantasy to see this game get the recognition it deserves.

Edit: I just sent Top Gear a stupid comment that will probably reach no one, but at least it was an attempt. Hopelessly included the Konami URL too. http://www.konami.com/gs/officialsites/enthusia/ Just begged them to at least mention that genuine simulations are out there but are just out of the public eye.
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What irritates me much more, is the Best Driving Game nominees of SpikeTV's VGA Awards. Yeah, I know, no one cares about that dumb awards show anyway, but when the nominees include GT4 and Forza (predictable), Burnout Revenge and Midnight Club III (excellent games IMO), and then L.A. Rush??!?!...

...L.A. RUSH?!?!

God, that game is a piece of ****, and a disgrace to the Rush name. Yet it made it onto the nominees list, and Enthusia was completely overlooked... :banghead: :rolleyes:
 

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