European GP

[ExigeEvan]

But alot of teh drivers in 'blowout' situations should have retired.

How would you feel if the FIA made people retire from the race?

 

[SouL]

Good thing the FIA mandated that the tires be tethered to the suspension of the cars. Or else Kimi would have gotten hit in the head by that tire.
Almost half the grid made mistakes today. There were a lot of drivers going off track and into the dirt.
Sure the blame can be put on Kimi for flat spotting the tires. But the FIA needs to do something about the new tire rules. Kimi's accident could have been a lot worse... as well as Massa's.

Heh... I need to go off and read what the BAR driver has to say about Kimi's accident. What the hell was he thinking after seeing Kimi's car FLYING towards the back end of that BAR!

 

[kensei]

How would you feel if the FIA made people retire from the race?

Isn't that what they already did with the no tire change rule. They took Massa and Kimi out of it today.

At the beginning of the season I was thinking over the one tire per weekend rule. On paper it sounds good. In reality, now that we have seen a few races with it I don't think it is a good thing. It bring's a new thing into the equation about driver's protecting their tires and if it was say GP2 or Toyota Atlantic cars they cool. Teach up and coming drivers how to protect their gear and craft a race. However this is F1, the top series in the world. Tire strategy and such IS part of it. The technology of the tires wars has been great to see over the past few years. This one tire per weekend just doesn't do it for me.

I'd like to see F1 go back to the tire war...

If not that move to a FIA spec tire. Let the teams change them as they wish in the races but let the FIA control the compound and construction. This would limit testing days (costs) significantly as 75% of modern "testing" is tire testing. This would allow the FIA to move to a slick tire again. For the most part we do have a spec tire in the michelins...why not just settle the issues.

Good thing the FIA mandated that the tires be tethered to the suspension of the cars. Or else Kimi would have gotten hit in the head by that tire.
Almost half the grid made mistakes today. There were a lot of drivers going off track and into the dirt.
Sure the blame can be put on Kimi for flat spotting the tires. But the FIA needs to do something about the new tire rules. Kimi's accident could have been a lot worse... as well as Massa's.

Heh... I need to go off and read what the BAR driver has to say about Kimi's accident. What the hell was he thinking after seeing Kimi's car FLYING towards the back end of that BAR!

I did notice most drivers having at least one mistake/off. The nurburgring seems to be a circuit that does that to a driver. if you loose concentration you get spanked. It is the case at any circuit but more-so at the Nurburgring, even the "new" GP circuit.

 

[Beelzebub]

the whole point of an f1 race is caring for the tyres.

 

[kensei]

the whole point of an f1 race is caring for the tyres.

Yes and no. When you have to be clinical and silly about protecting tires it isn't F1. Protecting tires but at the same time being able to really work them to their advantages, that require tire changes...is F1.

 

[Beelzebub]

lol sorry i was being sarcastic. (i want the drivers to go as a fast as possible)

 

[786]

the prime is a good tire for sure and i agree that the tire regulation is negatively effecting F1...what if kimi had been injured or killed today?...this regulation is simply unsafe in my opinion...drivers have to deal with crap tires which can easily cause accidents...yes, some say that the drivers should be more careful etc but lets think about what we are talking about...this is F1...this is the pinnacle of motorsport...you cant constantly baby your tires in F1...some of these drivers may not get another shot to compete in F1...you think those guys arent gonna push...if you are fighting for position it would be difficult to also try to protect your tires...hopefully this rule will be abandoned for next season and we can return to the tire war...otherwise eventually we will see someone have a bad shunt because of their tires going off and get injured or worse...that would be quite a shame...

 

[[FPV]Rusty]

kensei, your Webber bashing isn't really warrented when he is beating Nick in the championship

Blake

well that arguement went to **** quickly for us didnt it?

 

[snypa]

But alot of teh drivers in 'blowout' situations should have retired.

How would you feel if the FIA made people retire from the race?

Don't tell me you were expecting kimi to retiring himself from the race in the last lap, please.
This is precisely why I think the situation is unacceptable. The drivers are here to win, until the car is damaged, they'll keep trying to push. The problem is that the tires can blow at any time at the end of a race. How many more laps would have Alonso's tires lasted after the finishing line in Monaco ? Nobody can answer. He managed to finish, everybody said he was a hero. Kimi did the same thing yesterday, with a totally different result. The facts show that this situation is not under control.
One day or another, a driver will be hurt. Remember what happened to Ralf in Indianapolis last year ? I guess this will happen again, as we can count around 3 drivers having some serious tires issues each race. In Indianapolis, there is no sand to stop the cars, just walls.

And this is the FIA that gave us some safety lessons last year, forcing the teams to aggree the introduction of the v8 (which will cost some Millions of bills) ? It doesn't make any sense for me.

 

[Blake]

well that arguement went to **** quickly for us didnt it?

Yeah, it kinda did

I feel so bad for Kimi, that car looked like a monster to drive and somehow he kept pretty damn good pace in it, if only it lasted one more lap he would have won or at least got a podium.

I'm really suprised the suspension held together for as long as it did though, almost impressive.

It was a good race, probably going to be a race that determines the championship, like it was in 2003 (Kimi's engine blew while leading).

Impressive drive from Alonso none-the-less, he didn't really want to admit that he lucked into it though.

Well done to Nick, a thoroughly deserved 2nd place this time, didn't make any mistakes and drove sensibly.

Mark, well, that wasn't particularly smart

Button, he was sooooooooo freaking close to getting hit, I would love to see his face when he saw the replay of that

Good race overall, I would have liked a slightly different result but still entertaining.

Blake

 

[Slick Rick]

Speaking of jenson button what was up with BAR yesterday they had 5 weeks to get their car ready for the euro GP but their car had NO pace, at this rate i think the team is going to fall apart

 

[Blake]

Well they effectively missed out on 6 days of testing, and they didn't take advantage of not having to prepare for Monaco and Spain.

Blake

 

[everybodysfool]

hypothetically, what if raikonen's suspension gave way just before the line but spins out of control past the finish line. would he still be considered as race winner?? how would they weigh the car??

 

[Cosmic]

I feel sorry for Kimi. Sucks to be him.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Don't tell me you were expecting kimi to retiring himself from the race in the last lap, please.
This is precisely why I think the situation is unacceptable. The drivers are here to win, until the car is damaged, they'll keep trying to push. The problem is that the tires can blow at any time at the end of a race. How many more laps would have Alonso's tires lasted after the finishing line in Monaco ? Nobody can answer. He managed to finish, everybody said he was a hero. Kimi did the same thing yesterday, with a totally different result. The facts show that this situation is not under control.

He knew teh suspension would give eventually and the team knew it. Now, if it had been one of many other in the race they would have retired but being in the lead does weird things to people.
Now I'm not saying he did the wrong thing, but to put the blame on the FIA for safety problems is wrong. They will let you change teh tyre if you have a safety problem, and that is what Raikonnen had. Now if he had pitted sure he would have lost 1st, but he may have got 3/4th (only if teh FIA agreed there was a problem).

Isn't that what they already did with the no tire change rule. They took Massa and Kimi out of it today.

No they didn't. If you have a serious problem you pit and change. It's better trying your luck with the FIA than trying your luck with a concete wall. I'm sure some of you will agree.

Well they effectively missed out on 6 days of testing, and they didn't take advantage of not having to prepare for Monaco and Spain.

They did mention that the engine might be sufferig from 5 weeks standing still. Perhaps it wasn't or perhaps they didn't want to see if it was.

 

[Cosmic]

phuck. worng forum.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Why's that in here?

 

[Raf Laureys]

He knew teh suspension would give eventually and the team knew it. Now, if it had been one of many other in the race they would have retired but being in the lead does weird things to people.
Now I'm not saying he did the wrong thing, but to put the blame on the FIA for safety problems is wrong. They will let you change teh tyre if you have a safety problem, and that is what Raikonnen had. Now if he had pitted sure he would have lost 1st, but he may have got 3/4th (only if teh FIA agreed there was a problem).


No they didn't. If you have a serious problem you pit and change.
I agree, Ron Dennis said it himself they made the decision together and they knew it was a gamble. The crew had a new tire ready when he pitted. The current strenght of the cars and tracksafety encourages people to take a few more risks here and there though. I must admit that the current situation (people continuing with dangerously worn tires) is maybe too dangerous.

 

[snypa]

He knew teh suspension would give eventually and the team knew it. Now, if it had been one of many other in the race they would have retired but being in the lead does weird things to people.
Now I'm not saying he did the wrong thing, but to put the blame on the FIA for safety problems is wrong. They will let you change teh tyre if you have a safety problem, and that is what Raikonnen had. Now if he had pitted sure he would have lost 1st, but he may have got 3/4th (only if teh FIA agreed there was a problem).

.

Your answer proves that he was obliged to continue. Like you said he wasn't even sure that the FIA would accept him to change the tire before it blew. Or he would have been obliged to wait a few day for the FIA's decision, such a great thing for this sport.

And you can't deny such a situation didn't happen before. It's too easy to put people in such critical situations and then say it's only their fault.
The fact is that if you want to win at the present time, you have to take much more risks than before with your tires. When you had the possibility to change the tires, you could afford to be a little wrong on your prediction about tires life. You could stop in the 15th lap even if you were supposed to do 20, it just cost some time and you were obliged to change your strategy.
Now, such a mistake costs you the race, there is no place for error, even a tiny one, and that's why the teams are put in some critical situations.

But the main thing that makes me criticize the FIA is that they do exactly the contrary of what they said they wanted to do.

They wanted to reduce costs ; well for the next year everybody will have to work on a totally new V8 engine.
They wanted to increase security ; we can all see much more drivers put in dangerous situations.

Another thing about the tires rules : all the grooved tires are supposed to not end like slick tires, the rules have set some specifical restrictions for the depth of the grooves at the end of a race. But we don't even hear about it, as everyone finish the race with slick tires. It clearly proves that the FIA doesn't control and understand anything about the rules they set themselves.

 

[786]

I feel sorry for Kimi. Sucks to be him.

eh?...hes still an F1 driver that gets like 18 mil a year

 

[Blake]

the rules have set some specifical restrictions for the depth of the grooves at the end of a race. But we don't even hear about it, as everyone finish the race with slick tires. It clearly proves that the FIA doesn't control and understand anything about the rules they set themselves.

Actually they will only be disqualified if the tyres wore down to slicks and it proved to be an advantage.

Blake

 

[snypa]

Actually they will only be disqualified if the tyres wore down to slicks and it proved to be an advantage.

Blake

"proved to be an advantage" that's very subjective and unclear. How do you prove that ?
That's exactly what I wanted to show. As the FIA doesn't control the limits of the rules they set, they're obliged to put some sentences like that , assertions that mean everything and nothing. So everybody can explain the rules by his own point of view.
The FIA is used to doing this, setting some rules without judging before the potential consequences. It's like playing chemistry without knowing the basic substances and their properties.

Here is another example :
They set some aerodynamical restrictions this year, saying they would make overtaking easier (and also increase security), as the cars would be more unstable as before, forcing the driver to make more mistakes.
But they ignored the fact that the driver that follows closely a car lose also around 25% of aerodynamical grip, which mean an even more unstable car as it was before. As a result, there are no more overtaking than before, it's just quite the same.

And I won't speak about the qualification procedure, that changes every 6 races.

regards,

snypa

 

[Blake]

Well "proved to be an advantage" can be interpreted in various ways, I'd assume that they'd say that it was an advantage if laps times decreased. But it would be case by case, and that's what I disagree with, most ruling are case by case, rather than saying "This happens if you do that, no exceptions!"

Blake

 

[snypa]

Exactly.
Always nice to discuss with all of you guys, and sharing ideas and points of view.

 

[Sureboss]

Good race, shame for Kimi though, but it's his won fault.

An interesting stat for you.

Alonso (59) has scored as many points as Heidfeld (25) R. Schumacher (18) and M. Schumacher (16).

Who'd have thought that at the start of the season.

 

[Blake]

*raises hand*

Well, not really, but still .... bad stat ... almost as bad as Schumi last year.

Blake

 

[TMM]

Talking about FIA rules, isn't that what got the BAR team into trouble? They interuprated the rules one way and the FIA then said they were cheating!!???

 

[TMM]

eh?...hes still an F1 driver that gets like 18 mil a year

That's true, but in that crash he could have died. How much do football players or other sport people get and do they put there lives at risk in such a way? Yes other motor sport drivers do to an extent but F1 is supposed to be the cream of motor sports and have the fastest racing cars.

As to the FIA and the rule book, well don't get me started. Earlier points are right that at the end of a race you don't hear anything about the groves left in the tires, what about the Renault cars at the end of the Monaco race. The groves were clearly gone on those rear tires but not a peep.

I believe that the best way for the FIA to bring back racing at the this level is to ban all electronic gadgets for the cars. Other comments on this forum have already said about Willams starts, well if it was left to the driver to start his car rather than the electronics then we would know if Webber could get a car off the line quickly. How can you have a racing car where the electronics determine the speed of the engine as it goes round a corner according to grip? Where is the skill in driving round a corner fast if the electronics are doing all the work? Why not have the electronics drive the whole race and then save the teams the money spent on paying the driver to put his neck at risk!!!

I know the developments are now making road cars safer by using the electronics developed in F1 cars but that is just reducing us to passengers as well, I prefer to drive my car, not just get from point A to B without a crash.