Example of MoTeC data analysis

[MidFieldMaven]

I'm an obsessive hot-lapper but I find this feature to be unnecessary. The best way to analyze my laps are to watch them, and to keep racing against my ghost. Looking at fancy graphs and spreadsheets aren't going to help me drive faster.

 

[Jimmy Howlett]

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Ford Focus 1/4 mile & Top Speed Pull @ SSRX

159.5mph in 104.862 the car will top off at 163mph

1/4 mile 14.755 @ 92.8mph

All Stock, Factory Tires, No Assist, Manual Shift with 6 gate and clutch



Yes Ive done lap analysis and there are some incredible features I will make more videos of that this weekend.



View attachment 260007



It just sounded like you already had the data so I wouldn't have to fish for it.


Looking at your cornering speeds you are scary close


View attachment 260266

I see its all up to the driver how they want to play GT6. If anybody wants to talk real world gameplay some of use are pretty close, I think its a choice to go real or go space ship with jacked up front ends and all that Jazz........

I hope you don't mind if I use the last picture that you posted ( speed graph replay vs real ), on my replica post as added information for reference ?

 

[Jimmy Howlett]

I hope you don't mind if I use the last picture that you posted ( speed graph replay vs real ), on my replica post as added information for reference ?

You're kidding, the data is yours man

@Ridox2JZGTE here is the replay formated for i2 so you can check it out

https://www.sendspace.com/file/42bqub

 

[Stephanos82]

Just tried Mclaren F1 in Project Cars vs Gran Turismo 6! I used the end of the curb before the straight as my start line and the bridge as my finish line!
In PCars you have to go into 6th gear (or it rev bounds) and goes up to 205mph. In Gt6 5th gear is far from max revs and max speed is 196mph! :/

In Pcars the Mclaren F1 just doesn't stop it's like you have flintstones brakes
In Gt6 it stops comparatively very quickly!

P.S: I used default tyres for Pcars and Comfort Medium for Gt6!

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Just tried Mclaren F1 in Project Cars vs Gran Turismo 6! I used the end of the curb before the straight as my start line and the bridge as my finish line!
In PCars you have to go into 6th gear (or it rev bounds) and goes up to 205mph. In Gt6 5th gear is far from max revs and max speed is 196mph! :/

In Pcars the Mclaren F1 just doesn't stop it's like you have flintstones brakes
In Gt6 it stops comparatively very quickly!

P.S: I used default tyres for Pcars and Comfort Medium for Gt6!

Did you have the correct gearing and weight on the GT6 McLaren F1 ? For the brakes, lowering the brake balance would help a lot to make it similar to Pcars, something like 3/3 or 2/2. By any chance, can you access detailed suspension, LSD and gearing setup on the Pcars McLaren F1 ? What sort of springs, damper and alignment did it had ? Just my curiosity

You're kidding, the data is yours man

@Ridox2JZGTE here is the replay formated for i2 so you can check it out

https://www.sendspace.com/file/42bqub

Thanks mate

 

[Jimmy Howlett]

Just tried Mclaren F1 in Project Cars vs Gran Turismo 6! I used the end of the curb before the straight as my start line and the bridge as my finish line!
In PCars you have to go into 6th gear (or it rev bounds) and goes up to 205mph. In Gt6 5th gear is far from max revs and max speed is 196mph! :/

In Pcars the Mclaren F1 just doesn't stop it's like you have flintstones brakes
In Gt6 it stops comparatively very quickly!

P.S: I used default tyres for Pcars and Comfort Medium for Gt6!

Put the lap into Motec i2 so we can see. This thread is for Motec i2 related discussion.

Thanks mate

No Problem, I figured you were not yet on 1.14

________________________________________________________________________-

This is the first time we can pull this kind of data so easily, see how consistent Im driving, look at the potential of the car, I have quite a few plans for the Motec i2 software showing definitive results over a spread of multiple laps.

 

[NandoRock]

Ford Focus 1/4 mile & Top Speed Pull @ SSRX

159.5mph in 104.862 the car will top off at 163mph

1/4 mile 14.755 @ 92.8mph

All Stock, Factory Tires, No Assist, Manual Shift with 6 gate and clutch



Yes Ive done lap analysis and there are some incredible features I will make more videos of that this weekend.



View attachment 260007



It just sounded like you already had the data so I wouldn't have to fish for it.


Looking at your cornering speeds you are scary close


View attachment 260266

I see its all up to the driver how they want to play GT6. If anybody wants to talk real world gameplay some of use are pretty close, I think its a choice to go real or go space ship with jacked up front ends and all that Jazz........

The first straight of SSRX is not suitable for drag analysis, as it has elevation. Also, 'Vehicle Speed' is smother than 'Corr Speed'.

 

[Jimmy Howlett]

I didn't realize there was an elevation change before the hill, I don't think there is one. Track looks flat to me up to the hill, is there an elevation change at all before the hill your seeing someplace Im not?

Thx for the tip, smoothing out the lines will present itself better. I just left cornering speed u as its the default channel displayed.

 

[NandoRock]

I didn't realize there was an elevation change before the hill, I don't think there is one. Track looks flat to me up to the hill, is there an elevation change at all before the hill your seeing someplace Im not?

Thx for the tip, smoothing out the lines will present itself better. I just left cornering speed u as its the default channel displayed.

Sorry, the elevation change I meant was the hill itself. Some cars may not reach maximum speed before the hill. I think this is not the case with the car you have tested.

One more tip: you can smooth any data with function smooth(), on Tools... Maths... Add Expression...

One more interesting thing: Daytona Speedway has no GPS data at all!

 

[Jimmy Howlett]

Sorry, the elevation change I meant was the hill itself. Some cars may not reach maximum speed before the hill. I think this is not the case with the car you have tested.

Yeah as long as I Get-Er-Dun before the hill I don't bother going all the way around.

One more tip: you can smooth any data with function smooth(), on Tools... Maths... Add Expression...

Thank you, that is good info right there

One more interesting thing: Daytona Speedway has no GPS data at all!

Weird, its not like its SSRX lol

 

[NandoRock]

For real tracks I have found:

No GPS data:
Brands Hatch
Daytona
Indianapolis
Mount Panorama
Red Bull Ring
Circuit de la Sarthe 2013

Error on lap times:
Suzuka (1 lap counts as 2)

I have not tested every layout, however. The other real locations are ok.

It seems that city tracks has no gps data also. I have tested Tokyo, London and Monaco.

 

[Jimmy Howlett]

Odd they have it for older tracks but not all the new ones.

It seems that city tracks has no gps data also. I have tested Tokyo, London and Monaco.

Monaco? When did they add Monaco?

Edit, you must mean Cote-d'Azur it looks just like Monaco, but its actually a fake track built to mimic Monaco, I wonder if PD will ever convert it to the real track

 

[YZF]

You have no idea mate CH to CS with the Ferrari 512BB gives a lot of difference that grows to seconds the higher the speed / longer the distance. And your take on GT6 default tires is simply wrong - they have much higher grip than factory fitted tire, take a look at my replicas and their targeted real life lap times, almost all of the stock factory replica uses comfort tires. And I'm not even touching the weight + distribution ( almost all of them wrong ), alignment values ( all wrong ), gearing ( some of them wrong ), and springs.

You need at least as closest as possible setup to real life ( weight + distribution, power, suspension setup, tires, gearing ) and drive the car like in real life when doing straight line tests, then we can compare more accurately. I know the result will be off but it won't be as large in time difference.

I have idea, and it is correct I don't care about tyres, they are not influencing 200km/h - 300km/h time. There is nothing more to discuss. Also i never said there is no difference between tyres in lap time (with corners and braking) - there is. But which one is closest to real life - we don't know exactly. And you don't know. Lap times are affected by many different things, not only tyres. So if you put CS instead of SH, maybe this is wrong? Maybe you should leave SH on and fix aero physics and you'll get real lap time?

If 5 components (weight physics, tyre physics, traction physics, aero physics, something_else physics) combined get you final result (lap time), why change component nr.2 (tyre) ? Maybe leave it unchanged and fix/change/improve other components (nr.1, nr.3 or nr.4) ?

Just a thought for you

 

[YZF]

Please post pics of the runs if you can so we can see the data,

& Link the source data per real world test please. Its hard enough looking through the page in translated mode Id prefer not to fish through the site to check your source.



No I mean street cars too, cars with less hp cars under 500hp. Im testing the Focus ST right now with 252hp stock. It pulls to 163mph top speed not rev limited. You've tested super cars so far with very high HP like the Veyron.

Also testing lower speed cars we can see around what speed the difference becomes more than negligible, like the 3mph faster top speed of the Focus ST, thats Negligible at 163mph.

What pics? It's a motec data. If you don't believe me (it's your problem) then do those test by yourself and you'll see results with your own eyes. I also tested other cars beside Veyron, which have 500-600 Hp (not 1000). Just take anything more powerfull than poor Focus ST.

Also - are you hitting rev limiter with Focus? Because if you do, then this is incorrect test.

All my links go to direct pages with results on those pages. No need to navigate futher. Results are at the bottom of each page:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/example-of-motec-data-analysis.320038/page-2#post-10250736

 

[azidahaka]

I have idea, and it is correct I don't care about tyres, they are not influencing 200km/h - 300km/h time. There is nothing more to discuss. Also i never said there is no difference between tyres in lap time (with corners and braking) - there is. But which one is closest to real life - we don't know exactly. And you don't know. Lap times are affected by many different things, not only tyres. So if you put CS instead of SH, maybe this is wrong? Maybe you should leave SH on and fix aero physics and you'll get real lap time?

If 5 components (weight physics, tyre physics, traction physics, aero physics, something_else physics) combined get you final result (lap time), why change component nr.2 (tyre) ? Maybe leave it unchanged and fix/change/improve other components (nr.1, nr.3 or nr.4) ?

Just a thought for you

As shown before, he is right, check the turn in and and out speed in the graphs posted before... Why changing 4 parameters when changing just one puts all in place on basically in 99% of cars?

I guess one thing that PoDi didn't take into account properly is the high speed slipping between tyre/tarmac... The thing is almost negligible up to certain speed but starts to show off a lot on very high speed.

This might be due to not implementing it, or due to tyres having wrong "high speed grip" setting. In real life no tires have 100% no slipping while revolving, not even "race compounds" at low to medium speeds.

And tyres is the reason why certain cars have spectacular times at nurb but do not normally get them in real life situations; many car's benchmarks are not made on the tyres a car is sold with or suggested for use, but grippier lower mileage ones to get more impressive results...

Doesn't really troubles me to be honest for i do not race cars that easily go past 250kmh in any situation but i guess drag racers, or benchmark guys must be mad!

My 2cents

 

[YZF]

As shown before, he is right, check the turn in and and out speed in the graphs posted before... Why changing 4 parameters when changing just one puts all in place on basically in 99% of cars?

Well, with this logic, you could reduce engine HP for each car, and voila! - aero physics are fixed! Or add more weight, or higher rear wing...you get the idea..

But we want all 5 elements to be simulated properly, each time. Again, it's hard to compare lap time against real life. You have fear factor IRL, you don't have one in game. Does lack of fear compensate lower grip level from CH tyres? It may very well do that. And so you have the same lap time, but it is made of different components..

I guess one thing that PoDi didn't take into account properly is the high speed slipping between tyre/tarmac... The thing is almost negligible up to certain speed but starts to show off a lot on very high speed.

This might be due to not implementing it, or due to tyres having wrong "high speed grip" setting. In real life no tires have 100% no slipping while revolving, not even "race compounds" at low to medium speeds.

I'd think tyre slip due to high speed is negligible here. Yes, tyres have slip but it's like what? 5-10%? You won't get such differences in acceleration time because of this...

Doesn't really troubles me to be honest for i do not race cars that easily go past 250kmh in any situation but i guess drag racers, or benchmark guys must be mad!

My 2cents

You just need to take more powerfull car (500hp +) and on any track with slightly longer straight you'll have about 20km/h higher top speed and better lap time.

Actually I wonder how much lap time is infuenced by this issue...I think it would be possible to simulate (with lower HP) proper acceleration and then compare times...

 

[azidahaka]

Actually I wonder how much lap time is infuenced by this issue...I think it would be possible to simulate (with lower HP) proper acceleration and then compare times...

If you did that, then you would get wrong top speed, wrong split times, slower 0-100kmh times, wrong final lap times.

@Ridox2JZGTE showed that if you input the correct values (like weight, weight distribution, LSD, correct gear ratios etc etc) and put the correct tyres all is perfect to 1/1000th of a second... Do you think such perfection is just a random occurrence to many car? I do not

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I have idea, and it is correct I don't care about tyres, they are not influencing 200km/h - 300km/h time. There is nothing more to discuss. Also i never said there is no difference between tyres in lap time (with corners and braking) - there is. But which one is closest to real life - we don't know exactly. And you don't know. Lap times are affected by many different things, not only tyres. So if you put CS instead of SH, maybe this is wrong? Maybe you should leave SH on and fix aero physics and you'll get real lap time?

If 5 components (weight physics, tyre physics, traction physics, aero physics, something_else physics) combined get you final result (lap time), why change component nr.2 (tyre) ? Maybe leave it unchanged and fix/change/improve other components (nr.1, nr.3 or nr.4) ?

Just a thought for you

If you don't care about the tire, then you will never get accurate result even with proper aero Higher grip tire have less slip, and offers better traction and acceleration at higher speed. The top speed also higher on higher grip tires, try CM then SM tire on a the same stock car, you will see slightly higher top speed ( if not bouncing on limiter ) My real point was get the car accurate in GT6 vs real life, if PD fix the aero, the result will be even closer.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Thanks MatskiMonk.

I actually did these test myself too, and my findings confirm the incorrect aero physics simulation this game has.

So the results are:

Veyron (100% stock, default tyres, Auto)

0-100 kph: 2.4 sec -vs- 3.1 sec (real life)
0-200 kph: 7 sec -vs- 8.5 sec (real life)
0-300 kph: 16.2 sec -vs- 20.7 sec (real life)


Mclaren MP4-12C (100% stock, default tyres, Manual)

0-100 kph: 3.4 sec -vs- 3.3 sec (real life)
0-200 kph: 9.3 sec -vs- 9.7 sec (real life)
0-300 kph: 21.9 sec -vs- 31 sec (real life)

As I mentiond in this thread , above 200kph the broken aero physics of GT6 are really evident. Cars accelerate too fast and they reach much higher top speeds than they do in GT5 and in real life.

Interestingly enough, Veyron has the same top speed in game as in real life (although acceleration is wrong as well), but all (or at least majority) of other street/stock cars are doing 30-50 kph higher top speeds

More tests, all lead to the same findings. As soon as air resistance increases enough to have substantial effect (above 200 km/h or 125 mph), wrong physics calculation is clearly evident:

Mercedes SLS AMG

0-100 kph: 3.8 sec -vs- 3.9 sec (real life)
0-200 kph: 11.3 sec -vs- 11.7 sec (real life)
0-300 kph: 28.0 sec -sv- 42.2 sec (real life)

Lamborghini Murcielago LP 670-4 SV

0-100 kph: 3.5 sec -vs- 3.2 sec (real life)
0-200 kph: 10.4 sec -vs- 10.3 sec (real life)
0-300 kph: 24.3 sec -vs- 29.7 sec (real life)


Corvette ZR1

0-100 kph: 3.9 sec -vs- 4.0 sec (real life)
0-200 kph: 10.3 sec -vs- 11.5 sec (real life)
0-300 kph: 23.8 sec -vs- 35.4 sec (real life)


Lexus LFA

0-100 kph: 4.0 sec -vs- 4.1 sec (real life)
0-200 kph: 11.2 sec -vs- 12.0 sec (real life)
0-300 kph: 26.3 sec -vs- 50.6 sec (real life)

These results are even more startling when you pull out just the error portion, that is, how much faster each car is from 200-300km/h, real life vs. game.

LFA 200-300 km/h
Real - 38.6s
Game - 15.1s
That's less than half the time in game to go from 200-300 km/h!


Mercedes SLS AMG 200-300 km/h
Real - 30.5s
Game - 16.7s
Only slightly more than half the time.

McLaren MP4 12C
Real - 21.3s
Game - 12.6s
Again, only slightly more than half the time.

I knew it was off but I didn't know it was off by that much!!

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Same weight as the car IRL ( GT6 weight are mostly wrong, some even off by more than 100kg ) ? Power ? Tires ? I tested my F40 replica long ago when I built it, and it was very close against Auto Motorsport tests.

 

[azidahaka]

To be taken into account of those results if gearing, weight and hps are correct compared to RL values and again i stress about this, what tyres are used.

 

[azidahaka]

Same weight as the car IRL ( GT6 weight are mostly wrong, some even off by more than 100kg ) ? Power ? Tires ? I tested my F40 replica long ago when I built it, and it was very close against Auto Motorsport tests.

Lol basically threaded

 

[ALB123]

What the heck? Jimmy Howlett got banned?! Does anyone know why?

 

[NandoRock]

What the heck? Jimmy Howlett got banned?! Does anyone know why?

I'd like to know why too.

 

[super_gt]

What the heck? Jimmy Howlett got banned?! Does anyone know why?

I'd like to know why too.

Jimmy Howlett is Jack Napier(SiNiST3R)

 

[i2MotecMan]

Jimmy Howlett is Jack Napier(SiNiST3R)

YESSIR!!!!

Im surprised nobody clued in

Jimmy Howlett = Wolverine

People caught on to Jack Napier being the Joker quickly lol

 

[ALB123]

I have no idea if he was a previously perma-banned member. I just know he was adding a lot to this particular thread, so I was bummed out to see the word "Banned" under his screen name.

 

[Gravitron]

I have no idea if he was a previously perma-banned member. I just know he was adding a lot to this particular thread, so I was bummed out to see the word "Banned" under his screen name.

It's unfortunate, I agree. He does sometimes contribute good things. If he could prove that he wouldn't keep resorting to childish bickering he might have some luck dodging the banhammer over, and over, and over, and over...and over again.

 

[ALB123]

It's unfortunate, I agree. He does sometimes contribute good things. If he could prove that he wouldn't keep resorting to childish bickering he might have some luck dodging the banhammer over, and over, and over, and over...and over again.

Oh, so he was someone that had been banned before... Ahh.. ok... When I first started conversing with him in this thread his username did not seem familiar to me. Now, I'm not foolish enough to pretend that I have even come across 20% of the registered users of GTPlanet, but when you stick to certain forums, you tend to see who the active posters are and you remember their username, or avatar, or occasionally, even their writing style.

I'd be lying if I said there haven't been times that I've wanted to just lash out at another member, for whatever reason, but I knew that A) I would just be sinking to their level and B) I'll be risking my account on a website I visit 7 days a week. It's not worth it, in my opinion. Oh well...

Back on topic:

I think tire compound is going to play a significant factor in the numbers we produce, of course. I don't know what GT5's tire situation was like. GT6 is my first go with the series. If the game is able to reproduce 1/4 mile times fairly accurately, shouldn't that mean that air resistance is being calculated and calculated properly at least up until those 1/4 mile speeds? I know I am asking you to speculate, but for those of you interested in these issues, do you think PD is just calculating it incorrectly? Or do you think they have just forgone calculating air resistance at all? I don't know how much air resistance affects cars at low, medium or high speeds.

I know that @YZF has been very vocal about the issues with top speeds in GT6 for many months. Personally, I think it has to be an issue of air resistance not being calculated properly.