Extreme F1 aero designs

[Dijital Majik]

 

[Ardius]

^Yup, Ferrari X-wings, thought I remembered Ferrari using them.

 

[Dijital Majik]

^Yup, Ferrari X-wings, thought I remembered Ferrari using them.

I remember seeing them for the first time and thinking WTF. Any idea if they were first, or was it Tyrrell?

Also, came across this, can anyone shed any light?

 

[Ardius]

I think they were the first? I remember seeing them for the first time and thinking WTF.

Also, came across this, can anyone shed any light?

Nah, look at the previous page of this thread, Tyrrell were the first to introduce them, Ferrari and Sauber later copied them.

That split rear wing was the handy work of Virgin's very own Nick Wirth when the FIA were investigating ways to improve overtaking by reducing drag. That design was considered before they came up with the current 2009 rules with the reduced rear and increased front.

 

[Dijital Majik]

Nah, look at the previous page of this thread, Tyrrell were the first to introduce them, Ferrari and Sauber later copied them.

That split rear wing was the handy work of Virgin's very own Nick Wirth when the FIA were investigating ways to improve overtaking by reducing drag. That design was considered before they came up with the current 2009 rules with the reduced rear and increased front.

You, sir, have a wealth of F1 knowledge. Thank you.

 

[Ardius]

You can read about the split wing (or Centerline Downwash Generating Wing) here:
http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Releases/FIA_Sport/2005/October/241005-01.html

Oh and why it doesn't work and it wasn't used:
http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2008/10/8471.html

"Q: What were the problems with the FIA’s CDG wing?
PL: As it turns out, the CDG wing eliminates one of the most beneficial aspects of the single rear wing on an F1 car. The top elements of the rear wing generate a very strong set of flows each side behind the car that create inwash at ground level. This inwash effectively cleans up the wake and provides new fresh air to the following car at ground level, whilst the 'dirty' wake air is driven upwards centrally above the following car. Unfortunately the CDG wing does the exact opposite - inverts the rotation of these flows - so that the 'dirty' wake air survives much farther back behind the leading car."

 

[Hun200kmh]

Arrows A2

Stig13, that is the "normal...lish" version of the beatiful A2, used to race. The most extreme ones (only used in testing, as far as I know) had the rear wing placed much lower.




Jochen Mass's car (#30) being diplayed in a museum, with a much lower rear wing:

Patrese's car with what seems to be the same wing configuration as the "Museum car" (In this one, a casual observer would say this is a vehicle from a sci-fi movie )

Jochen Mass's car with yet another wing configuration, even lower than the other ( in fact, lower than the rear wheels)!

EDIT -

I remember seeing them for the first time and thinking WTF. Any idea if they were first, or was it Tyrrell?

Also, came across this, can anyone shed any light?

I think that's a "made up" picture depicting the possible outcome of wing regulations. So, not a real car.

But this is the internet, so what I looked for about that picture may be wrong and that car may have existed ...

 

[Hun200kmh]

Sorry, double post. Delete please ...

 

[Ardius]

I think that's a "made up" picture depicting the possible outcome of wing regulations. So, not a real car.

But this is the internet, so what I looked for about that picture may be wrong and that car may have existed ...

Yeah, I doubt Ferrari actually bothered building and testing such a wing because they would have (and did) find out the design was completely flawed from the start.
Its actually a good case study in why CFD isn't necessarily the brilliant cheaper solution for new teams, because the wind tunnel quickly proved the design wrong. Trust Mosley to pick up the idea and run with it without actually investigating if it really worked.

Despite Nick Wirth's reputation going down the drain on that one, he did at least later prove he could build decent cars for the Acura LMP programme and the old Simtek's weren't actually bad, just lacked money. However, its quite timely this topic should come up, what with Nick Wirth and Virgin already experiencing a little trouble right now with their front wing.

 

[Radracing]

Jochen Mass's car (#30) being diplayed in a museum, with a much lower rear wing:

I think with this aero design standard in F1 we would see a lot less carbon bits flying off the cars in the first turn at the start of the races. Plus if they extended the side pods the same width as the tires we would see a lot more wheel to wheel racing in turns. 💡

 

[CAMikaze]

Jochen Mass's car (#30) being diplayed in a museum, with a much lower rear wing:

Patrese's car with what seems to be the same wing configuration as the "Museum car" (In this one, a casual observer would say this is a vehicle from a sci-fi movie )

Jochen Mass's car with yet another wing configuration, even lower than the other ( in fact, lower than the rear wheels)!

I wonder if some might have thought at first glance it was F1 trying to go with a similar styling to the Le Mans Prototype sports cars back then.

 

[Pupik]

Mind you, the Arrows A2 was not very successful; it merely scored a few points. Part of the unusual chassis design meant the the fuel tanks were spread out in a wide triangular fashion, such that the Cosworth DFV was actually tilted a few degrees to one side. It was thus speculated that the engine wasn't operating to its best potential with a height differential from crank-end to crank-end, due to oil sump starvation issues.