Black95Z28how can you guys not be tired of these retarded "vs" threads.
Must be nice to be you, tha_con, cause I have to wait to get the next gen systems whereas you own them and get to benchmark and dissect them.
Black95Z28how can you guys not be tired of these retarded "vs" threads.
Must be nice to be you, tha_con, cause I have to wait to get the next gen systems whereas you own them and get to benchmark and dissect them.
spriteHaving lots of core's dose mean power but, utalising the power is going to be a different matter altogether, I was reading a magazine today about the multi core processors and the guy (Rob Jamieson) who wrote the article works for ATI (maker of the x-box 360 GPU), and he states that having a dule core processor compared to a single all well and good, but if you cant push the software to make use of the CPU then it will be just as slow as a single core processor. I know that a console is very different to a PC workstation, but the simple properties lie true in both.
"If you split a bit of code to run on two processors at once, one of these threads might finish first. This thread would have to wait for the second thread to finish before moving onto the next task"
" As i said last month the software developers are looking into developing multi-threaded aplications but itwill take time and is hard to develope for" (Rob Jamieson - MCAD Magazine May 2005)
Black95Z28wow, you guys get defensive.
Maybe you should reread this thread then, bottom line youre trying to get across, ps3>360.
:/
spriteHaving lots of core's dose mean power but, utalising the power is going to be a different matter altogether, I was reading a magazine today about the multi core processors and the guy (Rob Jamieson) who wrote the article works for ATI (maker of the x-box 360 GPU), and he states that having a dule core processor compared to a single all well and good, but if you cant push the software to make use of the CPU then it will be just as slow as a single core processor. I know that a console is very different to a PC workstation, but the simple properties lie true in both.
"If you split a bit of code to run on two processors at once, one of these threads might finish first. This thread would have to wait for the second thread to finish before moving onto the next task"
" As i said last month the software developers are looking into developing multi-threaded aplications but itwill take time and is hard to develope for" (Rob Jamieson - MCAD Magazine May 2005)
tha_conIf Epic Games can get the Unreal engine working in real time with fully adjustable camera angles, rendering the entire city, and water etc. I'm not worried about either console having troubles.
spriteAll that the unreal engine dose is put spanking normal maps on low poly models and this isnt that impressive. All that is happening with the unreal engine is that they make a low poly character upto about (5,287 triangle in-game mesh - fig 1)
(fig 1)
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then once they have this they make a heavy poly version from this mesh by adding all the details this is about (Purely geometric 2,000,000 triangle detail mesh - fig 2)
(fig 2)
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For a mesh to run in game like this you will need to jump about a bazzillion years into the future. from this they make a normal map (wont go into the specifics as its a little to complicated and boring).
Once they add this to the low poly mesh and do some lighting trickery you end up with this result (fig 3)
(fig 3)
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they look astounding but notice the edges around the model in fig 3, you can see its a low poly mesh underneath, so all the power of the ps3 is doing is creating some fancy lighting to make the models look like high poly meshes, and this is all about programming, and considering that Sony dont have the best track record for middleware tools and what not, i wouldnt be too sure that unreal appears on the PS3 for a while at least, plus all the footage show at e3 was supposed to be in-game but what ive seen is high poly models on screen nothing what i was expecting at all, the shift from high poly meshes and the amount of pure grunt has gone, those days were left with the voodoo cards, making game look pretty with programming and fancy effects is the order of the day and this is what we can expect from these next gen consoles.
sorry if this seem a rant but ive been studying normal mapping for a year and a bit and even though i still cant get the blooming things to work with my models is starting to wind me up, granted they look very good if dont correct and epic have done this well, the wow facter has gone for me as i saw these images last year.
SwiftExcellent points. To those of us that understand computer architecture that was a given. But I do believe it was very helpful to those that can be "wowed" but numbers and stats.
It's ALL about the programming. Anyone remember High Res mode on GT1 for the PS1? That was some good stuff, especially for the time. Imagine what can be done once the programmers master this new hardware. 💡
tha_conIf Epic Games can get the Unreal engine working in real time with fully adjustable camera angles, rendering the entire city, and water etc. I'm not worried about either console having troubles.
spriteCon if you read the post fully they use normal maps not HDRI "Quote - High Dynamic Range lighting" HDRI is for hi definition rendering not for normal mapping. And as you ask yes I know about HDRI because I use it in Maya and Cinema 4D, and ive studied normal mapping for my games design course.
BTW i didnt find these images they were shown to me by a guy called Jolyon from codemasters who came in to teach 3DS max, and im sure he knows what he's on about.
You dont need to get all defensive, the post was there to show what the unreal engine actually dose, I make 3d models all the time, and I actually have just finished a degree in multimedia design so I know what im talking about, to see what I mean go
here
and
here
" Support for all modern per-pixel lighting and rendering techniques including normal mapped, parameterized Phong lighting; custom artist controlled per material lighting models including anisotropic effects; virtual displacement mapping; light attenuation functions; pre-computed shadow masks; directional light maps; and pre-computed bump-granularity self-shadowing using spherical harmonic maps." << quote from site about unreal engine.
Just as we are clearing things up, HDRI is a form of texturing not lighting, you apply a texture to a shader then to a model and when you render it generates a reflection on the object.
spriteJust as we are clearing things up, HDRI is a form of texturing not lighting, you apply a texture to a shader then to a model and when you render it generates a reflection on the object.
the_undrtaker89I'm not going to buy either of these consoles when they first come out. With these kinds of advancements i'm positive there will be loads of problems and setting up will probably be hell. Plus i gurantee a year after this thing is released a better, stronger version will be out. Just look at the PSP......
the_undrtaker89Their going to release a better PSP now, and all the chumps that bought the original one won't have as many features. And setting up, I don't know, I just have a guy feeling something is going to happen with setting up. Companies always find a way to screw something up.
You said some good points, but you should know better than to talk to this crowd. All they do is get defensive.spriteBlack95Z28,
I agree with you on this, im sure tho that they will still have this problem.
shame too. just sods law or an inside conspiricy to make us buy more games an hardware.![]()
Black95Z28You said some good points, but you should know better than to talk to this crowd. All they do is get defensive.![]()
I hate when they say, "What PC can do this?!" (They didnt even stop to think that these demo's we NOT run on PS3 but on a computer) The PS3 isnt even released and the RSX isnt even on silicon yet. When it is... EVERY PC virtually can, because the equal will come for the PC(probably sooner than the PS3 is available to the consumer). The RSX will only be the best for 3-6mos until the next generation of hardware comes out.
So, you think we'll still have the bottleneck between systems? Which do you think will be the bottleneck?
I buy video cards as a consumer.tha_conKey word is consumer.
Consumer PC.
Not some super machine you build for 2K. A consumer PC.