Fake Traction Control settings. Why?

[Vincent Viceroy]

Not the mechanics of TC but the way it's represented in racing games.

TC usually comes in scale form regardless of what console racing game (I have not played any PC racing games) you play. For instance in GT the scale seems to be from 0 to 10. In Forza 3 the scale is simply ON or OFF. In Supercar Challenge the scale is 1 to 5.

Why don't developers correctly represent TC/modes for cars? In a Ferrari F430 the 'manettino switch' provides the driver with 5 settings:
- ICE
- ROAD
- SPORT
- RACE
- CST

Other manufacturers have different ways to incorporate TC but, in the whole scheme of things, with 10 different settings and the inclusion of other driver aids in GT5 there is absolutely no reason why they couldn't represent the real manufacturer scale and the way it affects cars.

 

[Owen.C93]

Because having specific names for each car is alot of work. A few minority cars have names for TC settings, but also suspension and differential settings. It's alot easier to act as if it has "fully customisable suspension" tuning option as standard same goes for TC and the diff.

 

[Griffith500]

Not to mention the proprietary technology that goes into such systems! I think we'll be hard-pressed to get a decent representation of e.g. BMW's M-dynamics system vs. Ferrari's 'manettino switch', anyway.

Fake traction control is all you need. If you want to adjust it on the fly, GT5 already has that provision (as do many racing games).

Although, if you're using traction control, you're a sissy!

 

[chepe371]

Here here.

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

Traction control and feminine hygiene products.

Two things I never use.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

I agree it would be cool to have a more realistic representation of TC, but that would be a lot of work, I guess proper light bulb modelling is way important.
[sarcasm setting off]

My old Clio (actually my mom's ) had TC and ESP which was not possible to turn off, but it only kicked in if you did something completely stupid like going full throttle in an icey corner, I really loved it, that car was really nice to drive anyways. :sad:

 

[chepe371]

I agree it would be cool to have a more realistic representation of TC, but that would be a lot of work, I guess proper light bulb modelling is way important.
[sarcasm setting off]

My old Clio (actually my mom's ) had TC and ESP which was not possible to turn off, but it only kicked in if you did something completely stupid like going full throttle in an icey corner, I really loved it, that car was really nice to drive anyways. :sad:

Damn your moms car had ESP? So you like never crashed right..?

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Damn your moms car had ESP? So you like never crashed right..?

I was hoping to not to get such a blatant answer, but there you go...

my current car is a Clio too and has no TC or ESP and guess what, I never crash..
Still the old one was much cooler, modern cars just suck anyways, IMO.

 

[finnracer]

Traction Control-What Traction Control!!

 

[subsonic]

I`m not going to use Traction Control. I dont use that NEVER

 

[CTznOfTime]

Traction control and feminine hygiene products.

Two things I never use.

LMAO !!! and falling down the stairs ... 👍


Traction control is for children and it slows you down..

I turn all that off when play GT4 & GT5-P

Agree with the 2nd post as well.

 

[Seismica]

One word: Mercedes.

Its never off muahahahaha!

Kind of like using the 370z in the Time Trial demo with a pad

 

[Ardius]

I`m not going to use Traction Control. I dont use that NEVER

Except maybe for the TVR Speed 12 There are cars out there that are nigh impossible to drive without TCS, though they are few and far between.

 

[UkHardcore23]

I've never understood the TC settings in GT5p? Can someone tell me the difference between say... 7 & 8?

Also ABS is between 1-10...What would be the difference between 3 & 4?

 

[Owen.C93]

I've never understood the TC settings in GT5p? Can someone tell me the difference between say... 7 & 8?

Also ABS is between 1-10...What would be the difference between 3 & 4?

More.

I agree it would be cool to have a more realistic representation of TC, but that would be a lot of work, I guess proper light bulb modelling is way important.
[sarcasm setting off]

My old Clio (actually my mom's ) had TC and ESP which was not possible to turn off, but it only kicked in if you did something completely stupid like going full throttle in an icey corner, I really loved it, that car was really nice to drive anyways. :sad:

My dads clio had TC and ESP, it rarely cut in until the tyres went bald though. You could turn it off but it has been said that renault sport's ESP/TC system is the best out there. (Clio 182)

 

[Ardius]

^It just alters the strength of the aid. For example, TCS set at 1 will only react to major wheel spin, whereas at 10 it will react to the slightest amount of slip.
Very rarely do you need it on anything but 1, really they could just have it on/off because I know I rarely use it beyond the "1" setting, if ever.

I think GT should perhaps make a point about teaching players to not use it so much, and teach them why its beneficial to use no aids and learn to drive the cars as they naturally handle. Its clearly not doing enough in this area, as a lot of people don't seem to realise the aids are slowing them down massively.

 

[chepe371]

I was hoping to not to get such a blatant answer, but there you go...

my current car is a Clio too and has no TC or ESP and guess what, I never crash..
Still the old one was much cooler, modern cars just suck anyways, IMO.

Ahahah no sweat we're just a little bored here is all.

 

[Earth]

The fakest part about traction control and how its replicated in video games in general is the fact it always slows you down.

Theres alot of racecars that go considerably faster with traction control, sometimes up to several tenths

 

[CTznOfTime]

I've never understood the TC settings in GT5p? Can someone tell me the difference between say... 7 & 8?

Also ABS is between 1-10...What would be the difference between 3 & 4?

It would be the same thing as you walking into Subway (if you like that stuff)
and asking for 2 more squeeze of mayo.

What would be the difference with another person who get the standard amount mayo squeeze....

More or less, it's up to your liking and up to you to decide.


IF they tell you 1 tea spoon of mayo over 2 tea spoon of mayo...
would you know the difference... Sure, it's just one more over the reference unit.



This thread makes me laugh, it's for people without logic in their reasoning ...

They (PD) are making it simple for you... but you want it complicated...
if they make it complicated, you will ask for more simple...
Jesus and Wine!

Peace out! I still love you guys.


@ EARTH: I believe you... but if you have any concrete example, it would help support your claim with respect to other GTP members

 

[Owen.C93]

I know F1 and Motogp had TC and they said they would be slower without it.

 

[CTznOfTime]

I know F1 and Motogp had TC and they said they would be slower without it.

Yeah Agree, because for highly power car/vehicles, it's is recommended to have TC, because even those athletes cannot handle and react fast enough to compensate for the trust, the traction, the drift, the lost in stability etc etc...


But for small car, under powered cars, regular cars... Turning TC off can give you more freedom to do creatives figures that actually work for you in shaving time off the race.

(sorry for my bad english...i am sleepy)

 

[Ardius]

I know F1 and Motogp had TC and they said they would be slower without it.

Hmm, I think the key thing to say here is "TC made it easier to be faster" not necessarily faster overall. A driver could still be faster without TCS, it just didn't really hamper their ability, just made life easier especially when it was wet and for race starts. Taking TC away didn't make F1 cars slower, just made them harder to drive.

My problem with TCS is that it takes away control of the car from the driver and "hides" the charateristics of the car, in the end this slows you down because you don't really understand the car as much as you would without. Very few cases actually have enough horsepower that TCS is absoultely necessary, otherwise its nothing that can't be managed with proper throttle input - a skill everyone should learn.

 

[Pat_f40]

I think that would be cool to have the real TC of each car... like, F40, no TC, F430 5 settings. You got my idea right?
Well... the time is taking PD to complete the game it's enough to do this and more.

 

[drivatar]

Replicating the original behavior of each car wouldn't be worth the effort.
And you would have to live with the negative consequences:

Many cars do not allow to disable TCS/ESP completely (e.g. Mercedes) or they get activated again after certain driving maneuvers (Porsche!).

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

The fakest part about traction control and how its replicated in video games in general is the fact it always slows you down.

Theres alot of racecars that go considerably faster with traction control, sometimes up to several tenths

Yeap and I just tested it on F3 with a RSI Porsche, while it was actually easier to drive with TC (and ABS), I only needed 2 laps to go much faster (2 seconds) without TCS/ ABS... it's just kinda weird.

Ahahah no sweat we're just a little bored here is all.

I thought so.

My dads clio had TC and ESP, it rarely cut in until the tyres went bald though. You could turn it off but it has been said that renault sport's ESP/TC system is the best out there. (Clio 182)

Those old Clios were super awesome 👍 my new one has more power, but it also weighs more and quite frankly it just sucks.

 

[niky]

Replicating the original behavior of each car wouldn't be worth the effort.
And you would have to live with the negative consequences:

Many cars do not allow to disable TCS/ESP completely (e.g. Mercedes) or they get activated again after certain driving maneuvers (Porsche!).

And BMW.

Hmm, I think the key thing to say here is "TC made it easier to be faster" not necessarily faster overall. A driver could still be faster without TCS, it just didn't really hamper their ability, just made life easier especially when it was wet and for race starts. Taking TC away didn't make F1 cars slower, just made them harder to drive.

+1.

It's the same in GT4 as in real life. Using no traction control makes high-powered cars and racers harder to drive cleanly, and this is reflected in the lap times of average drivers. The best drivers don't need it, and this is reflected, too.

-

While I have issues with how GT models traction control, I don't expect GT5 to model every single car accurately down to the last "M" or matinetto setting.

For some cars, you'll have:
ABS/EBD
TCS
ESP

Others will have:
ABS/EBD
TCS
DSC
e-diff (one axle)

Still others will have:
ABS/EBD
TCS
DSC
e-diff (two axles plus center)
active anti-roll bars

And a few will have:
ABS/EBD
TCS
DSC
e-diff (two axles plus center)
active anti-roll bars
active air suspension

And then you'll have the nasty buggers with
ABS/EBD
TCS
DSC
magnetorheological suspensions

*this doesn't include adaptive automatic shifting patterns.

Note: you're expecting a single $500 processor to do the same work as several $1000 processors while still handling the graphics, physics, AI and electronic aids for the 15 other cars on track.

It may be possible to fake all of this, simplify the input parameters to a bare minimum and have them read straight off the physics engine instead of reacting to when the car gets out of sorts... but then it won't be as realistic.

Kind of like using the 370z in the Time Trial demo with a pad

A better argument against aids, there is not.

 

[PAPPACLART]

Traction control and feminine hygiene products.

Two things I never use.

Just choked on my supper!!

 

[Griffith500]

A better argument against aids, there is not.

AIDS?

 

[nylonsquid]

Well, I would love it if GT explained the use of TC because someone like me doesnt know. I searched online to see what is the most reaistic setting for it and I read it should be turned off completely. I got the impression that real cars don't have this feature as GT just put it there to help newbs. It's always off for me but trying to handle a car like the Ford GT is next to impossible.

So I take it from this forum that cars do in fact have this assist. Does the real TC's scale depend on the car itself. Now I'm confused on how much to put the scale to to get a good understanding of how the real thing feels like. Can someone share some knowledge?

Also, mybe if PD gave us a different and realistic default setting for each car.

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

It's always off for me but trying to handle a car like the Ford GT is next to impossible.

Ford GT is a steep learning curve. Very few cars drive quite like it. Worth persevering, tho, your throttle control will come on leaps and bounds

Trust me - using TC on a Ford GT would be sacrilege