Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

  • Thread starter eKretz
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In recent years sanctioning bodies such as Grand-Am - IndyCar and Formula One (optional) use a Variable Ratio Steering system.
some of these systems are powered but not in the conventional sense.
as of yet no one even bothers to measure the force required to turn the wheel at the rim.
although the force required is slightly higher on road course tracks as opposed to oval the total is much lower than it was twenty years ago.
you do not want a driver to put up with 40lbs at the rim for two hours of racing. he would end up in the pitts within twenty lapps suffering from fatigue.
as of 2008 IndyCar steering systems have changed and by good buddy (Les Mactaggart)
has mentioned to me that the force required is around 13lbs on road courses with as low as 9lbs on ovals. in my experience in racing it seems to vary from 10 to 16 lbs in recent years.
in racing you need to be able to respond quickly with steering input and having to fight the wheel would be of no help. we need a light steering with good feedback from the system.
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Yeah I also found that one:

VarSteer.jpg


I didn't post it before since it didn't really have any specific info.
 
What I want: 20 pounds of cornering steering force, and 60 pounds of SHOCK force. I want a wheel that I need to let go of in an accident!
 
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Yeah really. By the way RXX, I was talking to David Tucker and he gave me an idea for an easy way to test coast-down better using wheelcheck, I'll email you the specifics.
 
Yep, that's where I got the idea to check RPM and add it to my graphs. I also interpolated the data from both my wheel and the T500 to 1000 Hz. I am probably going to alter the reduction pulley size as I don't want to lose too much torque. It will be pretty trivial to make a new pulley with a slightly increased larger pitch diameter. I wonder if that 200 RPM figure is optimal, it seems that most wheels run right around that number topped out. Even the SensoDyne wheels are spec'ed right around 200 RPM.

You can clearly see the effects of the heavier wheels or wheels with less torque, in that they are all still accelerating as they hit the reversal call, where the magic wheel and the CSW/F1 are both mode squared off. The T500 must have a heavy wheel or a steep gear ratio.
 
Well, I guess I disagree on the 6 of one, half dozen of another. If I cut the voltage I lose amperage as well, so I lose torque in order to drop the RPM. If I increase the large pulley diameter a bit but leave the voltage alone, the amperage will be maintained at the near stall speeds and I will drop the RPM also but will be maintaining or likely gaining torque due to the ratio giving slightly more torque multiplication.

I don't think it's any of those with the T500, it seems to me that it's just not accelerating back to the same peak due to not enough time to do so. On the graph you can see the initial acceleration lasts for slightly over 400ms before reversing, then there's about 300ms to accelerate until the next reversal, and only a little less than 300ms until power is cut. That explains pretty much everything shown in the graph right there IMO. If the wheel was reaching its max rotational speed it would be different, but you can clearly see by the slope of the RPM trace that it's still trying to accelerate.
 
Yeah, I was forgetting about the double-reduction. Hmm. I could increase the larger pulley and decrease the smaller one, but that might result in slippage. Might need to switch to more ribs to do that, that seems like it is pretty much the weak link as far as belt traction goes.

Well heck, every variable matters. It's just a matter of dialing them all in to the point we're happiest.
 
Yeah I'm not real sure how to go about finding what an accurate speed would be. It doesn't matter a whole lot with an F1 rim but with a round rim when in a slide say, letting the wheel skim through your hands before catching it to bring the slide back.
 
LOL, that's not a hydraulic setup. Those are electrical cables going from a controller to a DC servo motor. I' e never seen a hydraulic motor setup, but one could exist I suppose. Wouldn't be cheap either though, and it'd most likely be really loud unless you located the pump for the hydraulics away from the wheel/motor.
 
Oh snap... For some reason I actually assumed that it was a hydraulic ballscrew-kind-of actuator inside that. I feel stupid now.

Though I have a low cost junkyard solution idea for a hydraulic wheel. You could use a couple of hydraulic (power steered) car racks/boxes - one as actuator for the wheel itself, the other for the feedback input from a ffb motor of a retail wheel. The pump could be powered by a 100-200W AC motor. Once the little ffb motor starts to do it's job, the hydro setup amplifies its output and you shave off 5 seconds off your laptimes instantly. It works great. In my head.
 
Lol, that'd be great! You could get the whole engine too that way you'd have something driving the pump to get hydro pressure, and hook up the throttle cable to your gas pedal so you also get realistic sound effects! Working really really good in my head now! Haha!

Or maybe just get a real car and go to the track... :lol:
 
Hello Fanatec boys, ;)

To explain the 200 RPM goal, this is a very interresting topic written by Niels Heusinkveld on LFS forum...

https://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=32966

As you can see the G25, is not enough fast in 900°...

The same test with an Happ arcade steering wheel and the Mizoo FFB board on 1080° and 200RPM (Donuts test at 7:12)...



I tested with my 12 nm torque wheel more than 280 RPM. It's too fast (you can see that 2.28 on the video)



Good luck for your mod... ;)
 
Hmm, that is interesting, but it doesn't really show what the cars do in real life. Also, he was able only to get the steering to keep up by using a 300° lock setting. I'm starting to think the max rpm of a self-correcting wheel is going to vary depending on the car, and every car will be different depending on its degree of steering lock and steering ratio.

Very nice work on those wheels, they look great!
 
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Stef Bord
The problem is that actually, the FFB windows system is not very good for that, it's the limits of the actual system...

http://www.virtualr.net/why-ffb-in-simulations-does-not-work-by-leo-bodnar
Click to expand...

Stef, when I tried to see the Article from Leo, clicking on the link in the page on virtuair.net, I get (Sorry, we were unable to find the document at the original source. Verify that the document still exists.)

Might be just me, but if you could quote the article in this thread or provide a link that leads to the article it would be much appreciated.👍
 

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