Fanatec Replaces Thrustmaster at the GT Sport Tokyo World Tour Event

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by GTPNewsWire, Oct 23, 2019.

  1. Deadpool

    Deadpool

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    No. It’s you who are failing to understand. This is not how Fanatec works. Once you’ve set your brf that’s it, done. So if you prefer yours at a different setting you turn a dial and boom you’re good to go for the next driver.


    No this isn’t the case. I work event production and there’s PLENTY of time before a broadcast to do it. And honestly, if they wanted to they could show practice in the broadcast, if people tune in to watch then they will broadcast whatever attracts viewers. They are not set in stone regarding format.

    The practice would also be at the very beginning and since all rigs are the same and it takes only a few seconds to adjust BRF.....again this is a non issue.

    The rig in use is irrelevant because of this. You are over complicating a non issue. And after the first event, it’s even less of an issue as everyone will know what they like for settings and can literally adjust it in a few seconds. Non issue.
     
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  2. Groundfish

    Groundfish Premium

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    Since I am a fan of GTS, I think they should provide the best available input devices to the competitors.
    It’s a quality game.
     
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  3. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

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    So @breeminator , @Deadpool , or any one else with load cells, do you have to hard press the brakes when you first go into GT Sport to register them properly?
    They do practice beforehand but if you're unfamiliar with the gear there's an adjustment period. Also, just because you work in event production does not mean you work this event, and neither you or I know how much time they have, although I did see one of the competitors mention there was a cramped schedule and another having troubles adjusting to unfamiliar gear.
    It may seem to be a non-issue to you sitting at home but I would think competitors using unfamiliar gear may view this differently. You do realise they have driver swaps during races? I don't know if you can change this on the fly during a race but even if you can I doubt they'd get it done in the time a pit stop takes.

    Edit: This footage catches part of one of the driver swaps.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  4. breeminator

    breeminator

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    I don't use the load cell any more, but not for that reason. All I can say is when I used it I simply never had any problems related to what you describe, I set the force I wanted and that was what I got, and how it remained.

    The preset change is nigh on instant (okay, takes maybe a couple of seconds). You press the tool button on the wheel, move the joystick up or down till it shows your preset (1-4), press the tool button again, and you're done, every setting the wheel offers is now how you want it. You can drive just fine at the same time as doing it if you didn't quite have it done by the time you're leaving the pits.

    Out of interest, how would a driver change the wheel to their preference during a pitstop with a TGT? If one driver wants 600 degrees, the other 400 degrees, one wants the force feedback at 80% of the level of the other etc, does the TGT allow all settings to be saved for each driver and selected in a couple of seconds during a pitstop?
     
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  5. Deadpool

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    Nope.

    And you don’t think this applies to guys who are used to different wheels and load cells who show up for the event and have to relearn a unnatural brake pedal??

    Because yes it’s more natural with a load cell. Unless you’ve never driven a car in real life. So for most, adapting to a load cell is very natural since it’s like your normal car.

    I don’t have to work that specific event to understand what goes on behind the scene. It’s pretty similar across the board. If they wanted to, drivers could arrive early to test, if production viewed it as necessary. That’s the key. If they want to take this seriously, then they want drivers acclimated so it’s not just a circus.

    Point is. If the event wanted to, they could provide time to practice. Might only be 1hr. But that’s more than enough, and more than most Pro’s get for a real race.

    And that unfamiliarity is already there. Plenty of drivers don’t use that setup at home. Again your argument doesn’t hold water because of that point. And if your good, it won’t take you long to acclimate.

    It’s clear your unfamiliar with Fanatec setups. If I wanted to I could switch my driver mode while racing with ease, come to think of it, I do it frequently while testing. Some cars I want a different brake pressure to get the right amount of rotation on entry. It’s literally a 2sec thing. Doing this during a driver change is a non existent issue. I’m not jumping through menus and hoops, it’s very very fast/easy.

    And for initial setup. “Press as hard as you want your max, then turn that knob till it’s just less than 100% force and then add a click back. Done”
     
  6. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

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    But did you have to do that press?

    I wouldn't expect someone using their own rig with all of the onboard settings Fanatec have (which are an excellent imo) to experience anything noticeable either.
    Simple answer... you wouldn't :lol: .

    There isn't anything like what the Fanatec has on the T-GT and changing wheel rotation probably wouldn't be allowed, or needed for that matter as the game does that anyway.

    ------------------
    @Deadpool Thing is a lot of them do use T-GT's at home as many have won them in the competitions, and as I mentioned the Fanatec was foreign to most. The wheel you're suggesting (while a great wheel and the best wheel for console atm) would be even more foreign as it's out of most peoples reach.

    About event scheduling and drivers arriving early to practise... ever heard of a budget? You're over-simplifying things.

    Edit: This is what I've been curious of ''And for initial setup. “Press as hard as you want your max, then turn that knob till it’s just less than 100% force and then add a click back. Done”.

    So everyone's initial press may not be the same? So everything after that is a crap shoot for someone foreign to your 100%.

    And yes you're right @Deadpool, I'm not very familiar with Fanatec gear, but I am trying to understand :).
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  7. Deadpool

    Deadpool

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    Not with Fanatec, no need for a press.

    Some guys like to alter it to be more sensitive for certain cars. I tend to leave it in auto, but on rare occasions I've used it.

    Thats only speculation. Apart from all the drivers posting their rigs, there's no way to know what they are running at home. Most could be G29's for all we know. It's most likely a mix of many. I know a few have DD, some are G29 etc. Jumping between wheels is not that big of a deal. You're not going to go from being a top driver to bad by switching wheels. Top drivers are there not just for pure single lap pace, but because they know how to adapt to tire wear and changing conditions. A different wheel is just another condition you adapt to. The biggest issue, if they used DD, would be sore arms after a race lol.

    No I'm not. You are overcomplicating them. I work in this industry, I know all about budgets. And letting a bunch of guys onto the rig a few hours early while we finish other parts of the event will have virtually no real impact on a budget. This stuff is setup the night before if not days. It's already ready to go, you just need to let them jump on the game. Not sure how you think that would realistically effect a budget.

    No, you've def gotten yourself confused. Let's say you and I are co-drivers. Before the race we each hop into the rig and press to our desired max then adjust the dial. You then switch from that user mode (lets say they used S1) to S2 and repeat the process. Now during the race when we switch, all you do is switch the wheel to your mode and the brakes will be set exactly to your individual preference.

    And this number, after the first race can be used in the future. You don't need to redo the initial calibration like the first race. Say in the first race I preferred my BRF set to 80, but you preferred 70. Well next race we just use those same numbers.
     
  8. Groundfish

    Groundfish Premium

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    I use Fanatec.
    You are able to save groups of wheel settings per game, but I never messed much with them.
    I used the Fanatec recommended settings I found that give you in game and in wheel settings. They work well for me.
    One of the wheel settings within each available group of settings is brake reaction force if using load cell.
    So, you can save a different brf in each program if you like. Mine has no dial. It’s just button and the little stick.
    You need no software really, in my experience. The rev bars on the wheel indicate the amount of brake input per amount of pressure.
    It would be no problem to switch drivers each using differing brake force. Just switch programs on the wheel. A button press or two and bam. Or, if the game does not support that, you would already know what number you use for brf, but would have to enter it directly...Either method is very simple, but adjusting it directly is more button presses.
    My experience is that the Fanatec product is of sound quality, and using a load cell has been quite awesome. I got some wow responses on tire wear last week, a lot of it is not that I’m that good, it’s just that my input device has nice resolution and is working properly.
    As usual it appears there’s some confusion and argument on this
     
  9. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

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    I'll keep this short because I'm getting tired.

    I already mentioned I read they have crowded schedules so how do they get there earlier to test?

    That quote was directly copied from you're post so I'm not sure how I misinterpreted it.
    That pretty well says it can be set at different maximums dependant on how hard you press. This is the issue I have with my pedals... well I don't as much as my friend does (I'm 1' taller and twice his weight).

    I do understand it's a great product but I think PD uses the most basic brake set-up they can (potentiometer with no brake mods) to limit troubles during live streaming between different drivers. All of this extra changing of settings from one rig to another and during the race, and in driver changes is over complicating things.
     
  10. Deadpool

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    You are basing this all on a guys statement. Do you have a break down of their actual schedule? No. These are not actors/supermodels/CEO's with crazy schedules. Seriously you are WAY WAY overthinking this. Take this from someone in the actual industry, you're out of your element on this one.

    And yet you did. Because you failed to understand what it actually meant.

    Yes, and that is saved in the user setting. You set it once and you are done. So mid race when you change drivers you just turn the dial and now the brakes are set to your personal settings. The key is you both find your settings prior to the first race. How are you not understanding this??? Where is the confusion?

    The issue you have with your pedals is you don't have the ability to save settings in the wheel for brake force. Your load cell setup and issues are completely irrelevant to this conversation.

    No it's not. Wow. Dude you are completely missing it. Changing the settings, as I and numerous others have said over and over again, takes all of 2 seconds. This is a NON ISSUE. This is not complicated and yet you somehow are trying to find a way to complicate it. None of this will cause issues in a live stream.

    Just accept that you do not have experience with Fanatec, and everyone who does is telling you that you are wrong.
     
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  11. Groundfish

    Groundfish Premium

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    I believe he said he was using some non OEM setup on his pedals, maybe the confusion here is a perception that ALL load cell brakes behave like his modified pedals do. Csl elite is oem supported by the game.
    I think that’s the difference.
    You are correct, of course.
     
  12. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

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    So that's a no I didn't because you agree with what I said in your very next paragraph.
    So now you're saying you agree with this ''That pretty well says it can be set at different maximums dependant on how hard you press.''

    I understand you can save settings as a percentage of this 100% value (that can vary as you've said so yourself) for different profiles but may I ask how you clear that 100% value that's been determined by your individually desired 100% press?

    I've said as much many times, and in different threads to this one as well.
     
  13. Deadpool

    Deadpool

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    No.....no.....you completely missed the point as I show below.

    This is exactly what you haven't been understanding. You DONT have to clear the 100% value. The BRF setting adjusts the load cell sensitivity so that if my BRF setting is 80 and equals my 100% pedal pressure, you can jump in and switch the user profile to lets say yours has a BRF of 60, that is automatically set to the 100% pressure you prefer. So the wheel sees a pressure value of 60 which in turn with your setting would translate to 100% braking force. Then I jump in and switch to my BRF of 80, so that when it sees that pressure applied it translates my extra pressure needed to give me 100%.

    We could jump back and forth in the cockpit switching between profiles and every time we will both have 100% brake force despite our own physical pedal pressure differences.

    You have a complete misunderstanding of how this works, not sure what else to tell you.
     
  14. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

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    I understand all that but how do you clear that initial 100%?

    Remember each rig may be seeing many more users than profiles available over the course of weekend and your 100% (x 3 profiles) and my preset 100% (x3 profiles) will probably vary so at some stage it will likely need to be reset.
     
  15. Fanatec...

    Fanatec... Premium

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    This argument is interesting. There is a concern that drivers cannot adapt to a brake which just feels more like in a car where there was always muscle tension based control for the ease of use.

    At the same time drivers have to adapt to electric VGT cars (they never drove before) to GT3 cars (in the rain) to F1 cars like this would be the daily job of a normal race driver.

    A good driver can adapt to anything and if a LC pedal is not adjusted to F1 hardcore stiffness but to a regular sports car feeling then anyone can drive it. And if you would not be able to drive a 911 in real life you should probably ask yourself why you are on a stage with some of the best simracers in the world.

    GTS is not a kiddy arcade game but a simulation. It certainly is more enjoyable with a steering wheel and anything which makes the experience more realistic but still drivable.

    But this is just my personal view and it is certainly not my decision and not my event. The drivers are much more important.
     
  16. anthonyfa18

    anthonyfa18

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    Well the Question is will gts go back to the tgt at Monaco or will stick to fantec ???

    Mabe we will get better support for Fantec wheel in gts in a later update ???
     
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  17. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

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    There's no concern over adapting to load cell by itself, it's the settings that go along with it.

    Would it be possible to preset all of the pedals to the exactly the same load and settings? If so, then this would negate all my issues.

    Ps. Keep up the great work and thanks for pushing the market forward by developing a DD for console.
     
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  18. Deadpool

    Deadpool

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    No you very much don't understand. Fanatec load cell/wheel is not like your loadcell mod which required you to set an initial 100% each time. The Fanatec does NOT require this.

    And no no no thats not how Fanatec wheels work. And even if each driver had to reset all their settings before each race, you have it written down or memorized and you can make all the changes in under 30sec. It's not an issue, stop trying to complicate it lol.

    And here I see again your misunderstanding. Yes if we took a Fanatec wheel/load cell combo and set them all to the same settings it would be equal for everyone. You might not prefer the strength needed for the brakes as someone else, but in terms of requiring the same load it is the same.
     
  19. Made Adhitya

    Made Adhitya

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    Definitely they will go with FANATEC :) I myself comes from TM just recently changed to FANATEC and oh boy you won't regret it. I only can imagine hopefully next year GT7 on PS5 with full VR and FANATEC with fully support from PD!!
     
  20. Deadpool

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    Plus all this talk about Fanatec wheel/load cell being out of reach for most is silly. It's a $200 difference between the CSL Elite PS4/Load Cell setup vs the TGT. I honestly would never pay $600 to not have a load cell, spend the extra $200 and have a much better brake setup. The pedals truly are night and day better.
     
  21. FPV MIC

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    That's what I was trying to figure out but this is what keeps throwing me.
    That's exactly what I do (except turning the knob), but as you mentioned, I have to do it every time. To me it suggests the maximum is a variable (like mine) but you only have to do it once. Is this written wrongly?
    The first message of yours I quoted was about the DD with LC... that's $3000 AUD without the rig to put it on... so as I said initially, out of most peoples reach :crazy:.
     
  22. breeminator

    breeminator

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    Here is how I think it works. Suppose the braking is an 8 bit value sent from the wheel to the game, so it's 0-255. So, if you have a bodybuilder playing the game, they set the max force to e.g. 60kg, and the wheel maps 60kg force to sending 255 to the game. 30kg of force will be 128 etc. Then it's switched to a user who has it configured so that the max force is 20kg. The wheel now maps 20kg force to sending 255 to the game, 10kg will be 128 etc. The game knows nothing at all about what is happening, it just sees the values that the wheel sends, and the range of values doesn't change for different maximum braking forces.
     
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  23. LeGeNd-1

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    All this talk about wheel settings has me thinking. How DO people change FFB settings at WT events which require driver swaps? Namely FFT/FFS/CSS. Also is the use of T-DFB required (I personally can't stand it as it's a canned effect)?
     
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  24. super_gt

    super_gt

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    Of course this is possible.
     
  25. Pigems

    Pigems Premium

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    I’ve wondered that too, it looks like they just quickly change the settings while swapping drivers in the pits. But I can’t say for sure. :)
     
  26. cjr3559

    cjr3559 Premium

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  27. Deadpool

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    Yeah it looks like that’s where you got confused. I had said that we do that initial full force press but that once you’ve done it you never need to again. This is because when we do it with Fanatec it’s for the wheel/pedal, not GT.

    The DD is out of reach, though it’s not much to adapt to. It’s very easy to transition to because you’re getting more information and it feels natural to driving.
     
  28. FPV MIC

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    The thing is the game does know because of the hidden in game calibration. Assetto Corsa on PS 4 is also like this. Project cars 1 & 2 are different, they have their in game calibration visible and it also saves unlike the other two.
    See above^. This is why I'm asking. Not everyone knows about the hidden calibration some console games have and many people don't notice it because they press the same each time.

    Edit: I should add that it's very easy to test with a potentiometer based pedal set and the game can't differentiate between that and a load cell. It has no need to really because there's no licenced PS 4 wheels that have load cells. The load cell for Fanatec is an add on that doesn't claim to be licenced as far as I know.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  29. Deadpool

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    I believe this only applies to other pedals. I have never ever had this issue with Fanatec, and others here have corroborated that sentiment.

    If the game was recalibrating every time, you would see Fanatec users needing to calibrate each time, but you don’t. Especially with a load cell which is not a simple on/off switch like other non load cell pedals.

    EDIT: Read up on Assetto Corsa, no need to calibrate with Fanatec pedals. This is a issue with modded load cell pedals like yours.

    Looking at it that way, the pedals without a load cell technically don’t claim to be licensed either.

    Ultimately the brains are in the wheel. And the argument that the load cell isn’t supported falls apart when you realize the wheel itself is built with a load cell in mind and support. So if the wheel is supported/licensed than every aspect is supported. Which would explain why none of us Fanatec users have a issue like your modded load cell and non load cell/Fanatec users.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  30. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

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    Yeah I don't know either, that's why I asked. It's possible but I just don't see why it would be when load cells aren't licenced to my knowledge. But as I said many people don't notice it because they press the same each time.

    Potentiometers aren't a simple on/off switch either, they're variable.

    Edit to reply to you're edit: Is that on PC or PS 4 though, they're different. On PC the PC saves your settings, the PS 4 doesn't.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019