Fantasy Time: What Restomod Would You Do?

[Pete05]

HQ Monaro with HSV Clubsport R8 running gear
View attachment 1299523
View attachment 1299524

One of the fastest road cars I ever had a ride in, was a HQ 2-door with a 400 Chev with a tricked up Trimatic. Something I'll never forget.

Besides the HQ Coupe being one of the best looking Australian cars ever, as a retro project, I'd love to swap the driveline from C6 Z06 into one as the start of a project.

 

[05XR8]

Since the new Mustang Generations thread is go I have to bring this back in.
A green SVO with current Mustang 2.3T.

Modernise the dash without making it digital.
Make wider replicas of the stock wheels and keep the exterior standard. Drop in a six-speed manual, black Recaros with graded green inserts and I'm done.

 

[Pete05]

Since the new Mustang Generations thread is go I have to bring this back in.
A green SVO with current Mustang 2.3T.
View attachment 1476297

Modernise the dash without making it digital.
Make wider replicas of the stock wheels and keep the exterior standard. Drop in a six-speed manual, black Recaros with graded green inserts and I'm done.

I can see that being a pretty cool build, but I'd have to be different and go the current V8 driveline.
That and a suitably tuned titanium exhaust for just the right amount of aural pleasure 🤤
I must admit, having heard the 2.3T in both the showroom-spec Mustang and the Focus, I'm yet to be impressed by what many agree is divisible sound.

 

[05XR8]

Maybe a modern V8 would be lighter than the original 2.3T. No arguments about the better noise a V8 makes.

I'd just like it to make and even 300hp with the 2.3T to make it live up the Special Vehicle name.

 

[TexRex]

300hp turbo Limas are pretty common. I think you only need to open them up for a cam and the rest is bolt-on. The way the head flows I'd expect it to have a bit more usable low end grunt than a modern DOHC 2.3. But they are heavy motors.

 

[Pete05]

Maybe a modern V8 would be lighter than the original 2.3T. No arguments about the better noise a V8 makes.

I'd just like it to make and even 300hp with the 2.3T to make it live up the Special Vehicle name.

Just brushing up on my 80s SVO specs, 300 would be a significant jump up from the 205 peak of 1986.
One could also expect a boost in torque and driveability.
@TexRex
The 300hp in 'off the showroom floor' spec, has so many benefits over the 300 extracted out of the Lima motor.

I faced the same debate 20 years ago, when shooting for 400bhp out of my 5.0 carburettor V8. Go down that path for a very pricey investment and tolerate driveability, cranky behaviour when off cam, temperature issues, shorter life expectancy before rebuild time, and other associated niggles, OR
Drop in a more modern Chev LS crate motor that comes with a guaranteed 400bhp and a warranty!
Unfortunately, I kept getting a bad attitude from the car with issues popping up and eating into the budget before I got to pull the trigger.
So, I pulled the other trigger instead and sold up.
Loved that car, but I sure don't miss the reliability issues. Besides, my left leg post accident & rebuild wouldn't go anywhere near being able to use the heavy clutch.

 

[TexRex]

Just brushing up on my 80s SVO specs, 300 would be a significant jump up from the 205 peak of 1986.
One could also expect a boost in torque and driveability.
@TexRex
The 300hp in 'off the showroom floor' spec, has so many benefits over the 300 extracted out of the Lima motor.

I faced the same debate 20 years ago, when shooting for 400bhp out of my 5.0 carburettor V8. Go down that path for a very pricey investment and tolerate driveability, cranky behaviour when off cam, temperature issues, shorter life expectancy before rebuild time, and other associated niggles, OR
Drop in a more modern Chev LS crate motor that comes with a guaranteed 400bhp and a warranty!
Unfortunately, I kept getting a bad attitude from the car with issues popping up and eating into the budget before I got to pull the trigger.
So, I pulled the other trigger instead and sold up.
Loved that car, but I sure don't miss the reliability issues. Besides, my left leg post accident & rebuild wouldn't go anywhere near being able to use the heavy clutch.

Eh. I mean if you want to go modern DOHC turbo then fine. And there's some nice symmetry with Ford reviving the SVO Mustang nameplate and keeping it a turbo 2.3.

But if you've got a turbo Lima, which you do in an '86 SVO, the 300hp mark is not a crazy one and you don't really sacrifice reliability or drivability because you're just waking up a factory motor that was kept pretty conservative even for what was intended to feel like a sporty car of the period. It's a 50% increase in power, sure, but it's a turbo motor and that's not a moon shot. The cam isn't big at 300hp because the turbo is still filling the chambers sufficiently and you're not even porting the head yet. Port the head and yeah you want more lift to take advantage of increased port volume. I'm pretty sure 300hp is still cast intake manifold with an aftermarket turbo and maybe fuel control so that it makes the power happily rather than begrudgingly. Then it's just incidentals like plumbing in and out.

One advantage I can absolutely see the modern turbo motor having is when you want more power. The Lima's bomb-proof with that heavy block and forged internals but it takes a lot more flow and boost to get over 450hp and you won't be running stock anything but bottom end or anything less than full engine management for fuel and spark. Assuming the new 2.3 is stout enough, I'd bet the motor and upgrades combined cost less than getting that out of the Lima that you already have.

Anyway I feel like with this being a fantasy thread, you can basically pick a motor and pick what you want out of it and as long as it's even remotely possible then that's just what you have.

 

[Pete05]

Eh. I mean if you want to go modern DOHC turbo then fine. And there's some nice symmetry with Ford reviving the SVO Mustang nameplate and keeping it a turbo 2.3.

But if you've got a turbo Lima, which you do in an '86 SVO, the 300hp mark is not a crazy one and you don't really sacrifice reliability or drivability because you're just waking up a factory motor that was kept pretty conservative even for what was intended to feel like a sporty car of the period. It's a 50% increase in power, sure, but it's a turbo motor and that's not a moon shot. The cam isn't big at 300hp because the turbo is still filling the chambers sufficiently and you're not even porting the head yet. Port the head and yeah you want more lift to take advantage of increased port volume. I'm pretty sure 300hp is still cast intake manifold with an aftermarket turbo and maybe fuel control so that it makes the power happily rather than begrudgingly. Then it's just incidentals like plumbing in and out.

One advantage I can absolutely see the modern turbo motor having is when you want more power. The Lima's bomb-proof with that heavy block and forged internals but it takes a lot more flow and boost to get over 450hp and you won't be running stock anything but bottom end or anything less than full engine management for fuel and spark. Assuming the new 2.3 is stout enough, I'd bet the motor and upgrades combined cost less than getting that out of the Lima that you already have.

Anyway I feel like with this being a fantasy thread, you can basically pick a motor and pick what you want out of it and as long as it's even remotely possible then that's just what you have.

They used the 2.3T Lima in the 1986 European Touring Car Championship, and 1986 DTM run to Group A rules.
Trying to recall numbers from four decades ago, I think the peak was around 320-330bhp with a number of rules and restrictions to abide by.
One thing I did learn from my local championship, the builder of the best Sierra YB RS500 Cosworth motors on the planet, and a rule change that required a drop in fuel octane rating from Avgas100 to Super98, is that boost is related to compression ratio.
The found the lower the comp ratio, the more boost they could shove in there before detonation. Once they solved how to keep the head on the block, numbers climbed from around 480 in late '87 to 680 in qualifying trim in 5 years.
Made them drive like a 90bhp Escort when off boost, but at 5500rpm make sure it's pointing straight & hang on.

 

[TexRex]

They used the 2.3T Lima in the 1986 European Touring Car Championship, and 1986 DTM run to Group A rules.
Trying to recall numbers from four decades ago, I think the peak was around 320-330bhp with a number of rules and restrictions to abide by.
One thing I did learn from my local championship, the builder of the best Sierra YB RS500 Cosworth motors on the planet, and a rule change that required a drop in fuel octane rating from Avgas100 to Super98, is that boost is related to compression ratio.
The found the lower the comp ratio, the more boost they could shove in there before detonation. Once they solved how to keep the head on the block, numbers climbed from around 480 in late '87 to 680 in qualifying trim in 5 years.
Made them drive like a 90bhp Escort when off boost, but at 5500rpm make sure it's pointing straight & hang on.

Of course compression, whether it's static (chamber volume at TDC vs at BDC) or variable as by boost or some other means, translates to heat energy, and lower octane fuel with a greater amount of n-heptane is more susceptible to detonation (auto-ignition) by heat. More boost means more air that supports more fuel and results in more heat energy transferred to the piston at combustion for more power. Fuel with more iso-octane, and so higher octane, is more resistant to detonation and disallowing it is one way to limit power and level a field before competitors find advantages while following the letter of the restrictions. Interestingly, the heat energy contained within gasoline is consistent across octane ratings, but higher octane fuel's resistance to detonation allows you to use more of it provided you can flow the air to support combustion.

 

[TexRex]

1969 Plymouth Barracuda Formula S 383

Keeping this one simple starting with a basic fastback (cutting a gennie Formula isn't necessary) with a small block instead of the big block for less weight up front and better driving dynamics. A service replacement 340 block is punched out to 4.126" and fitted with a forged 360 crankshaft for 383 cubic inches. A 5-speed replaces the 4-speed and a QA1 coilover suspension kit places the shell over 15" Motor Wheel Spyders front and rear with 225/60 and 255/60 RWLs for a subtle rake. No stinkbug, but it's tempting! Black with red stripes, as above, with a black interior.

 

[Pete05]

1969 Plymouth Barracuda Formula S 383

Keeping this one simple starting with a basic fastback (cutting a gennie Formula isn't necessary) with a small block instead of the big block for less weight up front and better driving dynamics. A service replacement 340 block is punched out to 4.126" and fitted with a forged 360 crankshaft for 383 cubic inches. A 5-speed replaces the 4-speed and a QA1 coilover suspension kit places the shell over 15" Motor Wheel Spyders front and rear with 225/60 and 255/60 RWLs for a subtle rake. No stinkbug, but it's tempting! Black with red stripes, as above, with a black interior.

I like it. Especially the bit about leaving the genuine Formula stock alone and going for a basic in need of some lovin'.

I also appreciate that you're not a tub it, stuff 20 or 22 inch rims under it & drop it on its guts kinda guy. Once you go that radical and start cutting the body to fit tubs and air suspension, there's no coming back from there.

My version would basically be the reverse in livery with a body mainly Hemi Orange and black stripe.
I would fit a very recent & warmed over 392, mated to a Tremec Magnum 6-speed, and a tuned exhaust for aural pleasure.

 

[05XR8]

I still love the 412. If I had the means I might have done something similar.


Anyway, the more I see classics modified, the more I want to keep my MX-5 closer to stock standard.

 

[BGreenFace]

For me it would be to build a Renault 5 into a turbo one + 4wd swap with a rally body kit/lift kit
I would also love to make a modernized Porsche 944 turbo with some inspiration from the 935

 

[Pete05]

I still love the 412. If I had the means I might have done something similar.


Anyway, the more I see classics modified, the more I want to keep my MX-5 closer to stock standard.

Watched this last night and although a very nice end result, the total spend IMO is ridiculous.

Nine tenths of the result could be achieved for half the money by transplanting the driveline from any V12 Ferrari of the last 10, 15 years.

As for MX-5 mods. I would love to spend some coin on doing a proper 13B conversion turbo or not.
Flyin Miata have done the Chev V8, and some mob in the UK do a V6 transplant, but I don't know of any rotary jobs other than single one off randoms read about years ago.

 

[05XR8]

Watched this last night and although a very nice end result, the total spend IMO is ridiculous.

Nine tenths of the result could be achieved for half the money by transplanting the driveline from any V12 Ferrari of the last 10, 15 years.

As for MX-5 mods. I would love to spend some coin on doing a proper 13B conversion turbo or not.
Flyin Miata have done the Chev V8, and some mob in the UK do a V6 transplant, but I don't know of any rotary jobs other than single one off randoms read about years ago.

Yeah, spending 1.8 million is more dollars than sense.

Can’t remember the magazine too well, but maybe 20 years ago I read about an NA with 13B swap. I think it was built by a guy that was known for AE86s. It was dark blue with massaged fenders and SSR meshies. Looked like the perfect combination to me back then.

 

[Pete05]

Yeah, spending 1.8 million is more dollars than sense.

Can’t remember the magazine too well, but maybe 20 years ago I read about an NA with 13B swap. I think it was built by a guy that was known for AE86s. It was dark blue with massaged fenders and SSR meshies. Looked like the perfect combination to me back then.

Yeah, I only ever saw the rotary job done to the NA model.
Any other details are lost to time.

 

[Clark]

I’d do an E30 325i sport like my old one.

But with the N52B30 from the E87 130i/ E90 330i

With a bit of work about 270/280bhp from a light magnesium allow engine that revs to over 7k rpm and has decent torque for n/a. Give it some more modern suspension keep the look OEM+.

Then you have a car that for me looks cooler then the wide body E30 M3. I prefer the narrow body non M3 E30.

 

[Pete05]

I’d do an E30 325i sport like my old one. View attachment 1502408

View attachment 1502407


But with the N52B30 from the E87 130i/ E90 330i

With a bit of work about 270/280bhp from a light magnesium allow engine that revs to over 7k rpm and has decent torque for n/a. Give it some more modern suspension keep the look OEM+.

Then you have a car that for me looks cooler then the wide body E30 M3. I prefer the narrow body non M3 E30.

I like it.

You mention the wide body of the M3, and it reminded me of how the M3 wasn't available to the South African market, and how BMW South Africa still came up with a solution.

They created their own performance E30 by using the 3.0 litre six. A factory mid 80s 330i.

The E30 six-cylinder versions were already an entertaining car to own & drive, so more power and torque for no additional weight penalty is a win win.

Personally, I've always like the 3 series BMWs as a solid base for tuning with some great examples rolling out of workshops over the years.
Most of those being with a six transplanted from a later version.

 

[Clark]

The South Africans did something better than the 330i. They did a 325is with 2.7 Alpina engine and aluminium body panels at the front.

 

[Pete05]

The South Africans did something better than the 330i. They did a 325is with 2.7 Alpina engine and aluminium body panels at the front.

Either I didn't know about that one, or i had forgotten about it.
It's also possible I overlooked it as not 'factory' thanks to the Alpina link.

 

[05XR8]

 

[TexRex]

Betteridge's Law probably applies to YouTube video titles.

 

[Pete05]

All possible because there is no such thing as copyright is China.

Try do it anywhere else and you would have a cease and desist email from every manufacturer seen here.

They could start up a company for no other purpose than to make the most gorgeous Ferrari replicas with fully electric drivelines, call them Errari, and there is not a damn thing Maranello could do about it.

Look at the Foton Tunland.
Shameless copies of the two best selling 'trucks' in the U.S; The Ford F150 and the RAM Laramie 1500.

Don't tell me they haven't made a strategic decision, to ride on the all the hard work of those that make the originals with no shame.
High volume at whatever cost.

Don't get me wrong. I loved it every time Aston Martin, Jaguar, Nissan (Datsun) announced they were building continuation models from their own history. I think that's awesome, and more should be doing it as of yesterday. No time to waste.

Seeing how it is done the modern Chinese way, no wonder they can do it for less than a tenth of the price of handbuilt. Go price a new Ford Escort from MST.

No more searching for an original, rust-free, 100% straight body if you don't care, but what if you do?

What if you've kept an original of your favourite in showroom condition, and that's your retirement project?
Is an original still worth what it was before all this fired up?

I made enquiries with one of our local historic racing experts re budget required to go racing sensibly.
The advice was, in a nutshell, it is one thing to have the budget to do it properly, it's another to have the spares and replacement parts needed if and when you need to rebuild.
Certain components for a 60 year old car are going the way of the dodo 🦤
As more and more of our classics end up with terminal rust too far gone in vital places, there's less need to make the parts that make up the rest of the car. The roof lining, the seat back, the bracket that holds the flappy bit that changes the heater from windscreen to floor.