Ferrari Challenge Deluxe???

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cooldawn | GTP_Vincent_Vice
cooldawn
What is this about?...I've read the description but haven't a clue as to what is actually different.

boxart.jpg


http://press.eutechnyx.com/game/ferrari-deluxe
 
Is this a version of a "Greatest Hits" or "Platinum" branding?

Honestly, the logic behind a lot of stuff involved in the marketing of video games just totally escapes me.
 
I understand what happened here. FC Deluxe is FC platinum. However, "platinum" editions are subject to Sony's approval and (I think) depend on a set number of games sold at full price.

System3 didn't get "platinum" status awarded for FC, so they release a new mid-price title, called FC Deluxe and sell it mid-price from the start.
 
A cynic might say they did this partially to trick people into thinking it has new stuff, I bet it doesn't even have the DLC included like some rereleases might. I mean really, 'Deluxe edition', seems like an odd label to attach to the exact same product being sold for cheaper? 'Bargain edition' or 'What we should have charged for it in the first place given the quality of everything except the physics and engine sound edition' would have been more suitable...

Edit: Should probably point out that I'm currently playing it and quite enjoying it, but mainly because of the physics and sound: The AI, interface and glitches aren't worth the full retail price, but since I paid £15 for it, I think I'm getting what I paid for!
 
A cynic might say they did this partially to trick people into thinking it has new stuff, I bet it doesn't even have the DLC included like some rereleases might. I mean really, 'Deluxe edition', seems like an odd label to attach to the exact same product being sold for cheaper? 'Bargain edition' or 'What we should have charged for it in the first place given the quality of everything except the physics and engine sound edition' would have been more suitable...

Edit: Should probably point out that I'm currently playing it and quite enjoying it, but mainly because of the physics and sound: The AI, interface and glitches aren't worth the full retail price, but since I paid £15 for it, I think I'm getting what I paid for!

I think this is a very cynical viewpoint. I think Hun is probably right - there is some convoluted reason for needing to title it this way.

As far as what the game is worth: I've had more enjoyment out of FC than GT5P & about the same amount as F1CE.

The interface is a bit "primitive", there are a number of glitches, but the AI is pretty good, certainly far better than GT5P's. I would be interested to know how much time you have spent with the game so far, & how many of the different cars you have tried? You may not have had the opportunity to fully explore the online game yet - again, not without some issues, but still, overall, the best online racing sim experience on the PS3 at this point.

The thing is, I think you have to cut small game developers a bit of slack - they just don't have the big budgets that PD or EA have to spend. Eliminating them from the market will leave sim racers entirely at the mercy of one or two major players.
 
Here's a quote from the eurogamer site about it:

If any of you guys have the slightest interest in Ferrari Challenge (which wasn't that bad IMO) and want to know what's the difference between that and "Ferrari Challenge Deluxe" that's popping up here and there, here's what System 3 had too say to an inquiry through their website:

"Hi there. Thanks for your email.

FC Deluxe is simply a retail promotion that has been released at a lower price.
Unfortunately we have to call it a different name in order to sell it cheaper!

Please don’t buy it if you already have FC. We will be releasing a brand new version of the game on Wii towards the end of this year :)"[END OF QUOTE]

I guess that means that there is no new content, it sounds like its the same game to me.
 
I think this is a very cynical viewpoint. I think Hun is probably right - there is some convoluted reason for needing to title it this way.

There's certainly a reason to rename the game, but I just disagree with the name they've chosen. It seems to imply there will be additional content, and given the broken promises about the number of cars in the game and regular DLC, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to feel like System 3 owe them something. This might make people (such as a few people in this thread) think there's new content, as did I before I read the linked article.

As far as what the game is worth: I've had more enjoyment out of FC than GT5P & about the same amount as F1CE.

Since this post is pretty long, I'll paraphrase this bit: You've had more enjoyment from FC than GT5P, unfortunately I haven't. I don't mean to sound rude or anything, just trying to make this post shorter!

The interface is a bit "primitive", there are a number of glitches, but the AI is pretty good, certainly far better than GT5P's. I would be interested to know how much time you have spent with the game so far, & how many of the different cars you have tried? You may not have had the opportunity to fully explore the online game yet - again, not without some issues, but still, overall, the best online racing sim experience on the PS3 at this point.

I guess the interface and glitches (as none are game-breaking, as far as I've experienced) are minor issues. The AI frustrates the hell out of me, though; the way they move out of your way so you can't draft them then rejoin the racing line means it is pretty much impossible to predict where you should be on the track so you don't get a face full of a car that's hard on the brakes earlier than you were planning to be. Then when you inevitably ram the thing, it brakes even harder (even harder than is actually possible in the game, might I add). I guess that's fair enough but I've never in my life seen a real racing driver do any of that, so I don't see how that makes the AI better than GT's, after all, they seem to be following a set pattern (move out of the player's way on straights, stick to the same line through corners and occasionally dive up the inside of the player and occasionally make a mistake) just the same as in GT, only it involves annoying the player no end whereas GT's is just boring.

So far in the game I've done the Italian Challenge, all of the Trophy series, the time trials and the first two Arcade difficulties, so I've driven all the cars and tracks to death, or at least it feels that way, so I'm not exactly new to the game. However, I have only played online once - I got into a lobby with 6 people in it, before the end of the first lap 3 had dropped out, by the third I was racing by myself. Honestly, not something I want to dedicate much time to.

The thing is, I think you have to cut small game developers a bit of slack - they just don't have the big budgets that PD or EA have to spend. Eliminating them from the market will leave sim racers entirely at the mercy of one or two major players.

That is true, but I find it particularly hard with System 3. I understand they don't have a big budget, the question is, do they? They must have known whether or not regular DLC updates would have been feasible with the money they had, but went ahead and said they'd definitely do that, then didn't. They must have known before that, surely? What annoys me the most about that is that they could have easily not promised it, then delivered it anyway. The only reason I can see for them not doing that is the sales they got from people excited about that (there must have been some), and so they were effectively, perhaps accidentally, falsely advertising.

Then there's the 'typo' on the back of the case that says the game has more than twice the number of cars it actually did. Big budget, small budget, still a very basic and potentially ruinous error. What if someone had decided that was illegal? It could happen... Surely? I presume the only reason it wasn't a problem was that it wasn't a huge release and those who did buy it weren't too bothered, but it's still incredibly cheeky and I really don't think if GT5 said 'over 1,600 cars' on the back of the box (twice the rumored 800) that PD would get away with it.

So in my eyes it's not a case of cutting them a bit of slack any more, they've taken things a bit too far. It seems as if they're disorganised (the typo on the case and mistakes in the booklet) and don't have a large enough budget (the broken DLC promise), but are trying too hard to act like neither of those are the case. To me, this is another string to the 'I don't want to buy anything from System 3 ever again' bow, particularly after reading how little new content SCC will have.
 
I don't see how that makes the AI better than GT's,

I find the AI in GT5P very boring to race against. It is marginally better than previous GTs, but still basically sticks to the racing line. The AI in FC has a limited range of responses, but I find it is more varied & unpredictable than GT5P's. It's certainly far from perfect but much better than GT5P's.

You've had more enjoyment from FC than GT5P, unfortunately I haven't.

But you admit that you've barely played it online up to now. Really the fun racing in FC, as in GT5P, is online. As with GT5P there are some very good, clean dedicated racers in FC. The advantage of FC, & the reason I have enjoyed it more than GT5P, is the number & variety of tracks, the variety of competitive cars (because it's all one-model racing), & the ability to set your own racing schedule.

On the other hand, the big downside is that there are not that many people racing FC online compared to GT5P, which is why I would encourage you to try & get together online with other dedicated FC racers. You can find some of them here:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/group.php?groupid=63

There are also quite a few good, fast drivers from the UK & Germany, in particular, who are not GTP members. If you look at the leaderboards it will be pretty clear who they are.

As far as all the confusing/false marketing of FC is concerned: it's definitely unfortunate & disappointing, but doesn't change the enjoyment I have had from playing the game. I blame it on System 3, not on Eutechnyx.
 
I find the AI in GT5P very boring to race against. It is marginally better than previous GTs, but still basically sticks to the racing line. The AI in FC has a limited range of responses, but I find it is more varied & unpredictable than GT5P's. It's certainly far from perfect but much better than GT5P's.

I suppose that comes down to personal preference, I'd rather be bored than frustrated. It definitely is varied and unpredictable and GT's is definitely boring, no disagreements there, I just don't think the AI in either is actually intelligent and for that reason, to me, they're just as bad as each other. Not once have I been racing in FC and actually thought to myself 'you clever girl...' (like the hunter bloke in Jurassic Park) when the AI has totally denied a pass in such a way that would get them a penalty in any form of motorsport.


But you admit that you've barely played it online up to now. Really the fun racing in FC, as in GT5P, is online.

I will give it another go eventually, but the thing is, people also said the real fun of Rainbow Six Vegas 2 was online, problem is the damn thing never worked, and when it did, it was full of lag. I've heard FC's online mode isn't exactly the best ever (you said so yourself before), and while the gameplay might be good, I'm not one to battle against lag, connectivity and other issues to attempt to sample it, frankly, I could be playing a game that works instead. In other words, I don't have much patience any more, unfortunately!

As far as all the confusing/false marketing of FC is concerned: it's definitely unfortunate & disappointing, but doesn't change the enjoyment I have had from playing the game. I blame it on System 3, not on Eutechnyx.

System 3 being the developer and Eutechnyx the publisher, right? And again, I agree it hasn't exactly ruined the game for me either (if it came across as me saying that, it was unintentional and probably contextual), but it makes System 3 hard to trust, hard to want to support and hard to want to buy games from ever again.

To clarify, I'm still playing the game so I'm not saying 'oh my god I hate this game' and never did, I'm just saying I paid £15 for it and I think that's a fair price, but I would have really regretted paying £40 or more.
 
FC Deluxe is simply a retail promotion that has been released at a lower price.
Unfortunately we have to call it a different name in order to sell it cheaper!
I found it for $10 U.S. Dollars in a bin at one of the local Best Buy Stores, and after spending a few days on it earning a Platinum trophy, I felt that it was a complete waste of time and money, even at that low price.

but the AI is pretty good, certainly far better than GT5P's.
You know what they say about 'opinions', and mine happens to be that Ferrari Challenge has the worst AI of any racing game that I've ever played.

I would be interested to know how much time you have spent with the game so far, & how many of the different cars you have tried?
I used all of the very few cars that are available in the game, as required by the game's format. I've played racing games for many years with my DFP, and unfortunately, I had to revert back to the DS in order to keep the older, classic Ferrari 'boats' on the track. I find it almost impossible to believe that Ferrari would have ever developed any car with so much lag in the steering. I'm willing to bet that you don't use a steering wheel to play FC, if you think that it's so great.

All in all, this game gets a solid rating of 1 out of 10 from me.
 
When I come to the conclusion that I don't like a game I don't play it.

I think I played GRID for 3 days, until I finally shelved it.

I keep wondering what the "trophies" guys really get from them. Must be something special, because they DO endure playing a full game until completion ... without enjoying what they're doing.

For the record ... I still didn't complete FC offline mode :lol:
 
I suppose that comes down to personal preference, I'd rather be bored than frustrated. It definitely is varied and unpredictable and GT's is definitely boring, no disagreements there, I just don't think the AI in either is actually intelligent and for that reason, to me, they're just as bad as each other. Not once have I been racing in FC and actually thought to myself 'you clever girl...' (like the hunter bloke in Jurassic Park) when the AI has totally denied a pass in such a way that would get them a penalty in any form of motorsport.

IS there a console racing game with really intelligent AI? I remember FM1 as having pretty responsive (but very aggressive) AI, but many people seem to have hated that. I find the AI cars in FC are fairly fast & actively block (although I would agree that it's not particularly "intelligent"), which means you have to "out-maneuver" them (usually means moving past on the outside). IMO, it is better than having the AI just stick to the racing line regardless.

System 3 being the developer and Eutechnyx the publisher, right?

No, the opposite. Eutechnyx is the developer. Presumably, System 3 is responsible for the false advertising about DLC etc.

I will give it another go eventually, but the thing is, people also said the real fun of Rainbow Six Vegas 2 was online, problem is the damn thing never worked, and when it did, it was full of lag. I've heard FC's online mode isn't exactly the best ever (you said so yourself before), and while the gameplay might be good, I'm not one to battle against lag, connectivity and other issues to attempt to sample it, frankly, I could be playing a game that works instead. In other words, I don't have much patience any more, unfortunately!

There is often lag, in the form of frame rate & sound "stutter" in FC. It's unfortunate, but the online racing is still very enjoyable, & very close, intense racing is possible when you have experienced racers participating. Connectivity is rarely a issue in my experience, although having more than 7 or 8 players in a race does seem to cause problems.

I used all of the very few cars that are available in the game, as required by the game's format. I've played racing games for many years with my DFP, and unfortunately, I had to revert back to the DS in order to keep the older, classic Ferrari 'boats' on the track. I find it almost impossible to believe that Ferrari would have ever developed any car with so much lag in the steering. I'm willing to bet that you don't use a steering wheel to play FC, if you think that it's so great.

I use a G25 & Fanatec RS wheel, in fact I've never used a pad with any PS3 racing game. Like a lot of other people I love using the wheel with FC, & particularly like driving the vintage Ferraris. These older, fast cars with skinny tires & poor brakes, require early braking & careful control of the weight-transfer. The steering "lag" is the way the game models these characteristics. I can't say how accurate to RL these cars are, but I can say that it is possible to drive these cars in FC fast without driving them off the track (just take a look at some of the Lap Records on the leaderboards). It's not easy & it requires practice, but isn't that the whole point? :)
 
I used all of the very few cars that are available in the game, as required by the game's format. I've played racing games for many years with my DFP, and unfortunately, I had to revert back to the DS in order to keep the older, classic Ferrari 'boats' on the track. I find it almost impossible to believe that Ferrari would have ever developed any car with so much lag in the steering. I'm willing to bet that you don't use a steering wheel to play FC, if you think that it's so great.

All in all, this game gets a solid rating of 1 out of 10 from me.

I actually agree with many of neema_t's criticisms of Ferrari Challenge. The game has some serious flaws. The AI is just plain 'dirty' and drivers who blocked and brake checked their opponents lap after lap would be black flagged. Some view it as challenging but I think it's ridiculous. The wording on the box is a 'pack of lies' and System 3 never delivered on their promises with the number of cars or tracks. And at least for the NTSC market, I doubt they ever will. The online suffers from collapsing lobbies with more than 8 players and I doubt it will ever be fixed now that System 3 is putting all of their effort into Supercar Challenge.

But I have to say, I disagree completely with your statement above. I have a G25 and think the FFB offered in this game is the best of any racing sim I've played. I'd even go so far as to call it 'brilliant'. The actual effect may be exaggerated and on some cars the physics are a bit off. But I have actually driven a few classic Ferraris (although at much saner speeds) and think it's pretty realistic.
 
IS there a console racing game with really intelligent AI? I remember FM1 as having pretty responsive (but very aggressive) AI, but many people seem to have hated that. I find the AI cars in FC are fairly fast & actively block (although I would agree that it's not particularly "intelligent"), which means you have to "out-maneuver" them (usually means moving past on the outside). IMO, it is better than having the AI just stick to the racing line regardless.

Well that's what I mean, in my opinion I prefer to have AI that sticks to the line consistently rather than acting like idiots only when the player is around and sticking to the line otherwise. Each to their own on that point, I think.



No, the opposite. Eutechnyx is the developer. Presumably, System 3 is responsible for the false advertising about DLC etc.

My mistake, the way everyone talks about System 3 you'd think they're the developers. No one ever criticized Konami over the way MGS4's plot went/ MGO's online problems, that fell on Kojima Productions; the actual Dev Team. Unrelated point maybe, but hopefully you get what I mean (in other words, I don't even know how to spell Eutechnyx because I never see their name mentioned! Until just now, that is)



There is often lag, in the form of frame rate & sound "stutter" in FC. It's unfortunate, but the online racing is still very enjoyable, & very close, intense racing is possible when you have experienced racers participating. Connectivity is rarely a issue in my experience, although having more than 7 or 8 players in a race does seem to cause problems.

Therefore, I'm more likely to play GT5P where I can get in a full lobby and finish a race with maybe one or two people dropping out. Lag is lag and will always happen in online games so I can live with that, but at least you can have upwards of 8 players in GT5P and finish a race with most of that number competing.


When I come to the conclusion that I don't like a game I don't play it.

Not sure if you were referring to me there, I suppose I have made it sound like I really hate this game but that would be unfair, it has its merits, I just don't happen to think the AI is one of them. It would be unfair for me to say the online mode is this or that since I've only played it online once, but I'm having enough fun playing the offline mode for me to want to finish it.

I wouldn't say it's a love/hate relationship, but up until the point where the AI winds me up so much that I start driving too hard and start losing, I do enjoy it.
 
Not sure if you were referring to me there, I suppose I have made it sound like I really hate this game but that would be unfair, it has its merits, I just don't happen to think the AI is one of them. It would be unfair for me to say the online mode is this or that since I've only played it online once, but I'm having enough fun playing the offline mode for me to want to finish it.

I wouldn't say it's a love/hate relationship, but up until the point where the AI winds me up so much that I start driving too hard and start losing, I do enjoy it.


No, neema_t, what I wrote came to my mind after reading this post (I'll just quote the relevant part):

I found it for $10 U.S. Dollars in a bin at one of the local Best Buy Stores, and after spending a few days on it earning a Platinum trophy, I felt that it was a complete waste of time and money, even at that low price.
 
Well that's what I mean, in my opinion I prefer to have AI that sticks to the line consistently rather than acting like idiots only when the player is around and sticking to the line otherwise. Each to their own on that point, I think.

I think in both games you're forced to maneuver around the AI, I just feel that in FC the AI cars (this is on the hardest setting) drive faster, more aggressively & offer more of a challenge than in GT5P. Often, I race against a single opponent or half a field though (in Quick Race mode). As in GT5P, I find making my way through too many slower moving opponents isn't that much fun & doesn't feel at all like "racing".

My mistake, the way everyone talks about System 3 you'd think they're the developers. No one ever criticized Konami over the way MGS4's plot went/ MGO's online problems, that fell on Kojima Productions; the actual Dev Team. Unrelated point maybe, but hopefully you get what I mean (in other words, I don't even know how to spell Eutechnyx because I never see their name mentioned! Until just now, that is)

FC aficionados are very familiar with Eutechnyx (some of us can even spell it!). They have their own website/forum:

http://forums.eutechnyx.com/index.php#2

I imagine Eutechnyx would have like to fix the problems, add the planned DLC etc. I'm guessing that it's System 3 that have screwed them (& us) in that regard. MGS is one of the biggest game franchises & presumably has way mote money available for development than FC. I don't think it's reasonable to compare small players like Eutechnyx/FC to industry giants like Kojima/MGS or PD/GT.

Therefore, I'm more likely to play GT5P where I can get in a full lobby and finish a race with maybe one or two people dropping out. Lag is lag and will always happen in online games so I can live with that, but at least you can have upwards of 8 players in GT5P and finish a race with most of that number competing.

Again I would really invite you to join some of the good online FC racers. Having a field of people in FC (whether it's 1,2, 3 or more) you know & trust, racing bumper-to-bumper around Spa or Mugello, is an experience not to be missed. In addition, when you're forced to drive at that level, you start to have a greater appreciation for the depth & complexity of FC's physics & FFB. 👍
 
neema_t if you want to add me (MHailwood) then i would certainly like to give you a game online. Had 16 people in a lobby recently and we had about 4 races before anybody left. I think the AI is pretty good and certainly better than GT5p which has very unintelligent opposition. By the way, if anybody wants a race i'm normally online about 2000 hrs GMT most weekdays.
 
I don't think it's reasonable to compare small players like Eutechnyx/FC to industry giants like Kojima/MGS or PD/GT.

Yeah, that was a weird point I was making there; I was saying people complaining about FC have moaned about System 3, the publisher, for messing up the game's DLC and such, whereas with MGS4's problems (ridiculous plot, MGO) they blamed Kojima Productions, the developer. I've just realised that's probably due to the fact that Eutechnyx didn't mess up FC, and Konami didn't mess up MGS4, so that's a totally stupid point to make on my behalf!

I'll certainly take up MHailwood's offer, but to be honest I've been playing with the AI turned down (I mean given the extent the AI winds me up, I like to pass them then not have to worry about them coming back...!) so I'd be surprised if my driving is up to scratch. I mean I can stay on the track but I don't think I'm particularly quick or anything, although I could win races with the AI on dynamic, but then I guess that was supposed to match my performance anyway.

Well, I'll give it a go at least, thanks for the offer!
 
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neema_t, try a quick race with the AI on expert level. Yes they'll be a lot faster and you probably won't be able to pass all of them until you're up to speed. But at least they won't slow down to a crawl in the corners. Or ahh, at least not as much.

But as Biggles, Hun & Sarrinen all suggested, this game is much better with human opponents. And the fun is in track jumping with the same group of respected racers. Feel free to add me as well and I'll be happy to invite you in to any lobbies I open.
 
My suggestion, if you don't need to unlock tracks/cars, is to try Quick Race in Expert 1 vs 1 mode. That way your opponent will be pretty quick, but you won't need to plough through a field of slow but homicidal maniacs. You could also try going up to a half-grid. I only do the full grid if it's a long race.
 
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