FFB/Grip inconsistent online

759
France
France
Is anyone else experiencing inconsistency on how the car feels and how the FFB feels online in races/lobbies compared to the practice qualifying/time trials/offline?

Sometimes when I enter an online race my FFB just immediately switches super sluggish mode with no road feel and it can feel lighter or heavier, sometimes braking distances in lobbies slightly longer etc.

Sometimes in online races the car behaves and FFB feels exactly like it should (how it feels “offline”) but other times it’s inconsistent.

:irked:
 
518
Denmark
Denmark
I definitely noticed this in GT5/6 (like many others), sometimes it felt like driving on ice...
I'd suggest you to join out of region drift or free run lobby that has been up for several hours and try to match your personal best lap time.
 
177
barkohba
Is anyone else experiencing inconsistency on how the car feels and how the FFB feels online in races/lobbies compared to the practice qualifying/time trials/offline?

Sometimes when I enter an online race my FFB just immediately switches super sluggish mode with no road feel and it can feel lighter or heavier, sometimes braking distances in lobbies slightly longer etc.

Sometimes in online races the car behaves and FFB feels exactly like it should (how it feels “offline”) but other times it’s inconsistent.

:irked:


Not sure about FFB (no difference in my case as far as i can remember), but the car handling overall does feel different, and that is because in sport mode, PD creates custom settings for each car on each race (you can check the setup screen to see what they changed). Thus, its bound to feel different.
 

VBR

Meme Dissident in Exile...
Premium
7,619
England
London
I definitely noticed this in GT5/6 (like many others), sometimes it felt like driving on ice...

I remember this in GT5, & in fact people actually referred to the online handling as "ice physics". Personally I really liked it as I found the offline physics to be a bit dull. In the 2.09 update they changed them & made online vs offline the same/similar; "Fixed an issue where the online control characteristics differed from the offline characteristics." Source. Although I remember that in GT5, I have no recollection of it in GT6. That said, with the same people making the same game, again & again, we're bound to get the same problems cropping up. I've not been online in GT Sport since the demo & have no plans to either, so I guess I won't be feeling the difference any time soon.
 
1,513
United Kingdom
UK
YT__TJCGAMING
sometimes braking distances in lobbies slightly longer
Yup this happens in my opinion. In some sport mode races i've braked at the same point as previous laps but the car still pushes and running wide looms fast. Same gear, same brake point.

I heard a youtuber say a while ago that in his opinion GTS could well be factoring in oil spots on the road, or even random events as such to destabilise your car. He called this "fake difficulty levels".

I'm not sure though to be honest. Might just be bad coding...

I was racing in Gamesta's GTP GT5 GT500 championship some years ago. I was 3 abreast, braked at the same spot as always, then when straight into the T1 wall at Indy F1.
VBR
've not been online in GT Sport since the demo & have no plans to either, so I guess I won't be feeling the difference any time soon.

Never played the demo. But the full release is worth the playtime VBR.
 
6,148
United States
Washington State
OutlawQuadrant
I'm all but certain FFB is not always consistent after what happened yesterday.

Before the Nations race, I was starting some final practice in my lobby. However, I had forgotten to push the PS button on my G29. After I did and went out on the track, the feedback on my wheel was overly slack. I could wobble it a lot with just my finger. I had to restart my PS4 and push the button before launching GT Sport before it was back to normal. I also had this wobbly wheel in an FIA race when, again, I forgot to push the button after restarting. I'll note that I did unplug and replug the USB connection in my lobby but that didn't work.

As for grip levels during a race, it does feel as though it is slightly less than even a lobby. It is possible that it's simply the effects of dirty air with other cars on track. However, I do have issues with random brake lockup when I don't expect it, even if I'm in clean air.
 
2,321
Wales
Wales
TSR_GTWelsh
If you run offline time trial you're running with:
  • no fuel weight
  • potentially without BOP on (unless set to on in the car setup)
  • magic tyres that never lose life or heat
BoP off is often faster than on so it can also post faster times. But even with BoP on in Time Trial mode, you have magic tyres and no fuel weight.

In an offline race you can match setting to online I think though, but if you're anything like me you run offline Time Trial and online racing, not offline racing.

In online racing, espeshally sport mode that usually has fuel on and tyre wear on. You get added fuel weight and the tyres just aren't as grippy due to wearing down pretty quickly.
 
4,774
England
Nelson, England
GTP_ASH32
Something feels very wrong for me. Even practice/qualifying sometimes but it's a bigger problem in the race. I'm not sure if it's the game or my wheel but sometimes it just gets so hard to control the car and you can lose .5-1second a lap at least.

Just now at Suzuka in the race I ran a 1'50.2 best lap whilst fuel saving on the hard tyres, then suddenly a couple laps later the car started to act real odd and I struggled to go anywhere quick, even still after the stop (still using hards) I was barely hanging onto it running 1'50.6 at best whilst not saving any fuel really and eventually I spun a couple of times as the car snapped hard on me and I couldn't stop it, it's strange and not enjoyable. :(
 
655
United States
United States
FluffaRaptor
I think a lot of people forget the role dirty air plays into your braking distance and lateral traction. There are noticeable differences in the the grip available between quali and racing but i dont tend to notice it much if im in the lead or away from other cars which suggests to me that it may only be a very minor difference if any at all.

even without tire wear dirty air will make you have to use earlier brake points, turn in earlier, easier throttle control, etc
 
4,774
England
Nelson, England
GTP_ASH32
I think a lot of people forget the role dirty air plays into your braking distance and lateral traction. There are noticeable differences in the the grip available between quali and racing but i dont tend to notice it much if im in the lead or away from other cars which suggests to me that it may only be a very minor difference if any at all.

even without tire wear dirty air will make you have to use earlier brake points, turn in earlier, easier throttle control, etc

Yes it does make a difference but I've had grip problems when I'm in 1st with a clear track ahead.

I think low bar connections can mess with the grip too, especially if you get one near you, even behind you. Of course this is all feel though, there is no actual facts to back it up. :indiff:
 
786
United States
United States
I'm of the opinion that a lot more has to do with ping and net settings to account for the difference in feel between offline and online, particularly when it isn't consistent. The one variable going from off to online is your net connection, and the server ping and speed. Get a server hampered by a bad ping driver, and you may very well feel disconnected from the track as the server struggles to compensate for a bunch of bad ping drivers, or net congestion.
 
177
barkohba
I'll repeat - "Sport" mode races all have custome setups for each car/track combination. You'll never experience the same behavior with the same car in a lobby / time trial as in Sport Mode (be it practice/qualy/race).

Check your car setup whenever entering a sport event (even practic). You'll see that it has a custom setup, most of the time a lot of things (specifically suspension-related) are changed, even camber, toe, etc (which affect breaking directly).

PD basically acts like the team engineer - instead of fiddling with the settings yourself (or wasting hours on end online to find a good enough setting for each track in PC2, because the "engineer" feature in that game is useles), PD creates custom setups for each car and track for you.
 
759
France
France
I'll repeat - "Sport" mode races all have custome setups for each car/track combination. You'll never experience the same behavior with the same car in a lobby / time trial as in Sport Mode (be it practice/qualy/race).

Check your car setup whenever entering a sport event (even practic). You'll see that it has a custom setup, most of the time a lot of things (specifically suspension-related) are changed, even camber, toe, etc (which affect breaking directly).

PD basically acts like the team engineer - instead of fiddling with the settings yourself (or wasting hours on end online to find a good enough setting for each track in PC2, because the "engineer" feature in that game is useles), PD creates custom setups for each car and track for you.

I am talking about with the same settings though. For example the pre-race qualifying can sometimes feel slightly different or “off” compared to the actual race. Sometimes it feels exactly the same.
 
177
barkohba
I am talking about with the same settings though. For example the pre-race qualifying can sometimes feel slightly different or “off” compared to the actual race. Sometimes it feels exactly the same.

Not entirely sure I've ever experienced it that. But in case it really 100% is the case - PD might be fiddling in the background with tire temperature without telling us and letting us know through the UI. Theoretically, GTS does not feature tire temperature. Unlike other games, or even GT6 which showed you how warm/cold the tires are, there's no indication about GTS's tire temperature, and as far as I could tell vs PC2 and AC, there shouldn't be, as generally GTS tires feel much more consistent from lap 1 to lap 10, whereas in PC and AC, you can feel the tires get more grip.
 
759
France
France
Not entirely sure I've ever experienced it that. But in case it really 100% is the case - PD might be fiddling in the background with tire temperature without telling us and letting us know through the UI. Theoretically, GTS does not feature tire temperature. Unlike other games, or even GT6 which showed you how warm/cold the tires are, there's no indication about GTS's tire temperature, and as far as I could tell vs PC2 and AC, there shouldn't be, as generally GTS tires feel much more consistent from lap 1 to lap 10, whereas in PC and AC, you can feel the tires get more grip.

Honestly I think it might have something to do with my wheel (causing the feedback to become muted/foggy/unpredictive) I’m not sure though. Next time it happens to me I will switch to controller and measure what it feels like.
 
2,321
Wales
Wales
TSR_GTWelsh
Even practice/qualifying sometimes but it's a bigger problem in the race. I'm not sure if it's the game or my wheel but sometimes it just gets so hard to control the car and you can lose .5-1second a lap at least.
Sounds like fuel weight to me. In practice and quali the tyres are always 100% and you have no fuel? I haven't done Sport mode in a while so correct me if I'm wrong. This is also the case for Qualifying. However in the race fuel weight is added and tyres lose life.
 
4,774
England
Nelson, England
GTP_ASH32
Sounds like fuel weight to me. In practice and quali the tyres are always 100% and you have no fuel? I haven't done Sport mode in a while so correct me if I'm wrong. This is also the case for Qualifying. However in the race fuel weight is added and tyres lose life.

When I say I lose time I'm comparing practice to practice or an "odd" race to the average race, not to each other because as you say there is fuel weight and tyre wear (in Race C) so race times will always be slower. Also even fresh tyres can have poor grip when it goes like this, cars are feel loose whilst having understeer too, like they are not attached to the road. I've also had it in Race A/B (so no wear and fuel) but I don't race them enough for it to have happened more than a handful of times here but once I was 1 second a lap off pace at Brands Hatch Indy, I'm not sure that should be possible for anyone.

It could be game or wheel related but I'm beginning to think it's internet/server/lag that's the likely cause as it can happen out of nowhere mid-race too, fast lap one lap then 1.5 seconds slower next lap, even with the big wear multipliers that's not normal. I sometimes get the blue screen error after these races too but that is likely just a coincidence as these happen fairly often anyway, even sometimes just trying to watch top ten replays.

This "missing" grip is one of the reasons why I used to use CSA, as at least then I just went slower rather than spinning when it felt off. :boggled:
 
2,321
Wales
Wales
TSR_GTWelsh

Cheers for the clarification, was just hoping it was easily explainable, guess not :( I've had the same thought though and so far I've put it down to the tracks Time of Day or tyre temps. However I'm not convinced by that myself. I always found it very subtle though. A slightly different one is I can run good laps, then grip comes in even more (when we run 1x wear rates this can happen) and I get a couple of really fast grippy laps then the next lap I have zero grip, like I've overheated the tyres. Part of me thinks there is a tyre temp aspect to the physics that can kick in from time to time, but again, pure speculation.
 
28
United States
United States
I am talking about with the same settings though. For example the pre-race qualifying can sometimes feel slightly different or “off” compared to the actual race. Sometimes it feels exactly the same.
I have experienced this with my Thrustmaster T300. FFB has good feel in qualifying then but in the race the feeling is almost gone. Hopefully its not just my wheel overheating during the 10 minute qualifier as I only run FFB at 4.
 
759
France
France
I have experienced this with my Thrustmaster T300. FFB has good feel in qualifying then but in the race the feeling is almost gone. Hopefully its not just my wheel overheating during the 10 minute qualifier as I only run FFB at 4.

That’s exactly what I meant to say :)

I also was thinking it had something to do with the wheel cooling itself and losing power. Which causes the feedback to become dull and unresponsive. I’m not sure. That’s why I might need to do some races with the controller to compare them.

Edit: But I’m really not sure, because I can drive for hours (not in the actual race) and not feel single difference with my wheel?

Have you ever/do you update your T300?
 
28
United States
United States
That’s exactly what I meant to say :)

I also was thinking it had something to do with the wheel cooling itself and losing power. Which causes the feedback to become dull and unresponsive. I’m not sure. That’s why I might need to do some races with the controller to compare them.

Have you ever/do you update your T300?
I have not updated the wheel for about 2 months. I am not sure if a new update is available. Now you are going to make me check :lol:

Which wheel do you use?
 
786
United States
United States
Edit: But I’m really not sure, because I can drive for hours (not in the actual race) and not feel single difference with my wheel?

This should be your FIRST thought before even proposing wild guesses about wheel overheating issues. This completely disproves the idea. hence, not even worth speculating about.

It's the inconsistency of the effect that leads me to think the issue is more ping related. No-one has yet quantified it, been able to show repeated consistent differences, even after duplicating the Sport Mode tuning settings.

What's the last variable you have no control over? The variable pings from the random collection of drivers you get grouped with. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. Sometimes grip goes away, sometimes it doesn't (so much).

Sounds a likely candidate, IMHO...
 
759
France
France
I have not updated the wheel for about 2 months. I am not sure if a new update is available. Now you are going to make me check :lol:

Which wheel do you use?

T300, and I have never updated it. :embarrassed: Should I?

This should be your FIRST thought before even proposing wild guesses about wheel overheating issues. This completely disproves the idea. hence, not even worth speculating about.

It's the inconsistency of the effect that leads me to think the issue is more ping related. No-one has yet quantified it, been able to show repeated consistent differences, even after duplicating the Sport Mode tuning settings.

What's the last variable you have no control over? The variable pings from the random collection of drivers you get grouped with. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. Sometimes grip goes away, sometimes it doesn't (so much).

Sounds a likely candidate, IMHO...

Yep sorry I was just throwing out my thoughts. Then, is a way to test this host a lobby by yourself and see if you ever experience this? Then join a distant lobby with the same settings etc.
 
655
United States
United States
FluffaRaptor
This should be your FIRST thought before even proposing wild guesses about wheel overheating issues. This completely disproves the idea. hence, not even worth speculating about.

It's the inconsistency of the effect that leads me to think the issue is more ping related. No-one has yet quantified it, been able to show repeated consistent differences, even after duplicating the Sport Mode tuning settings.

What's the last variable you have no control over? The variable pings from the random collection of drivers you get grouped with. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. Sometimes grip goes away, sometimes it doesn't (so much).

Sounds a likely candidate, IMHO...
Not a bad guess, but when i am in races with lots of lag or have a particularly laggy moment in a race, my grip doesnt change at all and the reduced grip issue isnt variable throughout a race its only variable between the quali session and the race. I would then argue that ping rate has nothing to do with grip.
 
786
United States
United States
There are no other cars on in qualy. There are loads of cars on in a race. Ping is variable due to network and server loads. I'm not saying YOUR ping is the main issue. It is the combined ping of the whole room. And somewhat dynamic (hence not easily compensated for).

I can't honestly think of another variable that can't be tested for (tuning, fuel load, track temps, etc.).
 
655
United States
United States
FluffaRaptor
Are we even sure there really is a grip difference that isnt downforce related? I cant say that i notice a difference in a Race A or B if i start on pole, and in lobbies i never notice a difference unless im behind someone.
 
759
France
France
Are we even sure there really is a grip difference that isnt downforce related? I cant say that i notice a difference in a Race A or B if i start on pole, and in lobbies i never notice a difference unless im behind someone.

I’ve definitely noticed it when I was not around anyone in the lobby.

The other day in a GT3 lobby with same settings as Sport mode I felt like the car was struggling to brake past the 100 board on Maggiore T1. Here’s the thing I’m not actually sure if there was a difference in braking distance, but relying on my FFB as I usually do, it REALLY felt unconfident and like I couldn’t brake like I normally do.. The same goes for the other main braking and turn in zones. I don’t know what it was (Grip? FFB?) but something felt so off, I was snap oversteering in places I never would etc. I had to change my FFB settings because it felt off from what it normally does. And sometimes I get this phenomenon in Sport races too. Would I have experienced such phenomenon with a controller, indicating that it’s wheel related? I’m not sure. Maybe someone who plays with a controller can share their experience.