First Look at HD-DVD Drive

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Yeah The BluRay will have all the VC-1, H.264 & everything. The PS3 & XBOX 360 play all of them fine.
Wow, finally some logical words from Mr Deap. Everyone, take note. This is a day that will go down in history.
BluRay as a huge advantage for space.
And, its an advantage that will soon be taken advantage of. Starting tomorrow with "Click" there will officially be BD-50 discs out there. You can get plenty of stuff on a 30GB HD-DVD disc. But, there is no doubt that a 50GB Blu-Ray disc has a good deal more space. Perfect for a little higher bitrate movies, and lots of extra features.

I have read, though, that Toshiba is VERY close to getting 3-layer discs up and fully functional. That would give them 45GB capacity, which would level the field a good deal. But, these are still in testing and not out in use yet. We'll have to see what comes of that. But, its also been said that Sony is having trouble getting any more than 2 layers on a Blu-Ray disc. If that happens, you basically have a totally even game.

Hilg
 
How about that?
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1916968,00.asp


You can call that Hardware acceleration... >_>

Most of that is all about DVD playback, and PureVideo is designed for HD content, not 480p content.

Examining DivX, WMV9, and H.264 playback, we found the differences in quality to be even less apparent. Both the Radeon X1800 XT and GeForce 7800 GTX delivered excellent playback quality on video clips of all resolutions. Both do a good job of scaling the video up to fill the screen and smoothing out excessive blocking artifacts. Color saturation and sharpness were about the same.

Specifically speaking about VC-1 (aka WMV9) and H.264, both cards score roughly the same, both decode in hardware (aka GPU). The 7000 Series is what is in the PS3 (basically) and is capable of decoding in hardware through the GPU, however, the Cell is *better* for HD content decoding on the fly.
 
HD-DVD & BluRay.

Yeah The BluRay will have all the VC-1, H.264 & everything. The PS3 & XBOX 360 play all of them fine. :lol:

BluRay as a huge advantage for space.

So basically what you've said is your previous 5 or 6 posts before this one were all nonsense, just things you made up? Because for the most part, that would be the gist of it.
 
Wrong. Swordfish, Firewall, Blazing Saddles, The Fugitive, Lake House, Syriana....those all use VC1, just to name a few. The first batch of movies were in MP2, that is correct. But, for the last month or so, most Blu-Ray movies have been in VC-1.

Hilg
This raises an ineresting question: Who thought Swordfish was a good enough movie to release again? (a lighthearted jab at John Travolta's expense)
JNasty4G63
I have read, though, that Toshiba is VERY close to getting 3-layer discs up and fully functional. That would give them 45GB capacity, which would level the field a good deal. But, these are still in testing and not out in use yet. We'll have to see what comes of that. But, its also been said that Sony is having trouble getting any more than 2 layers on a Blu-Ray disc. If that happens, you basically have a totally even game.
But if I remember problems with DVD-9 correctly, it will probably be unsupported by the earlier players, and be less durable.
 
But if I remember problems with DVD-9 correctly, it will probably be unsupported by the earlier players, and be less durable.
There is a decent chance of that. I've read up on this for quite some time, ever since this whole Blu-Ray/HD-DVD debate started, and I've yet to find a concrete answer. Some things seem to suggest that its just a firmware thing, and current players would be fine. Others say it won't happen. Others say that even if it did, the discs themselves would cost so much, that the movies would be very expensive. So, who really knows. I merely threw that out there as a possibility.

In all honesty, I don't see the size or format of the disc really being the major factor. I mean, from everything we've seen so far, movies that have come out on both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD look and sound basically the same. And really, aside from the size of data capacity, the formats are basically the same. VC1 is VC1, no matter the disc.

What its really going to take for either of these formats to take off, if either actually will, is for some great content to come out, and for the players to drop in price a good deal. If one of them can get a player to market at around $300, I think that will really kick something in the right direction. But, more movies is the key. All the money for players aside, if you don't have anything to play on them, it really is pointless.
Halley Berry.


Case closed.
Let me add to this...

You take one part Halley Berry, you subtract her top, add one part TVR Tuscan, and top it all of with lots of guns and action. That, to me, makes for a pretty entertaining movie. And, I don't think I'm alone in that.

Hilg
 
You take one part Halley Berry, you subtract her top, add one part TVR Tuscan, and top it all of with lots of guns and action. That, to me, makes for a pretty entertaining movie. And, I don't think I'm alone in that.

Hilg
So just watch porn and then Pulp Fiction. Same sensation, less poor storyline, more guns, less bad acting from Travolta and more Samuel L.
 
There is a decent chance of that. I've read up on this for quite some time, ever since this whole Blu-Ray/HD-DVD debate started, and I've yet to find a concrete answer. Some things seem to suggest that its just a firmware thing, and current players would be fine. Others say it won't happen. Others say that even if it did, the discs themselves would cost so much, that the movies would be very expensive. So, who really knows. I merely threw that out there as a possibility.

In all honesty, I don't see the size or format of the disc really being the major factor. I mean, from everything we've seen so far, movies that have come out on both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD look and sound basically the same. And really, aside from the size of data capacity, the formats are basically the same. VC1 is VC1, no matter the disc.

What its really going to take for either of these formats to take off, if either actually will, is for some great content to come out, and for the players to drop in price a good deal. If one of them can get a player to market at around $300, I think that will really kick something in the right direction. But, more movies is the key. All the money for players aside, if you don't have anything to play on them, it really is pointless.

Let me add to this...

You take one part Halley Berry, you subtract her top, add one part TVR Tuscan, and top it all of with lots of guns and action. That, to me, makes for a pretty entertaining movie. And, I don't think I'm alone in that.

Hilg

The seperating factor between the two formats as far as size goes will be when extras are also in 1080p on Blu-Ray, where as on HD-DVD, it will be difficult to achieve such results with limited space.

Granted, you can always use multiple discs, but less is more, I say.
 
So just watch porn and then Pulp Fiction. Same sensation, less poor storyline, more guns, less bad acting from Travolta and more Samuel L.
But, I personally liked the movie. I like Pulp Fiction just fine, but I found Swordfish to be a pretty decent movie. It didn't, nor should it have, won any big awards. But, for an action movie, it was just fine by me.
Granted, you can always use multiple discs, but less is more, I say.
True. We have that right now, and it seems to work fine. Movie on one disc, and special stuff on another. I'm not so sure people are real concerned with their special features in 1080p, when just buying the movies in HD in the first place is so hard. Who knows. It will be an interesting holiday season, to say the least.

Hilg
 
So basically what you've said is your previous 5 or 6 posts before this one were all nonsense, just things you made up? Because for the most part, that would be the gist of it.

There's not much debate to do about it. BluRay player can stock more stuff but the content is enough for a HD-DVD. HD-DVD is obviously less expensive. I would prefer to see BluRay as a burner & not watcthing movie.

The problem with BluRay is the reading speed to take advantage of it. Though as you know, BluRay movie should respect the 1X speed to stearm the movie. So pray to see it look better than the other. :sly:
 
There's not much debate to do about it. BluRay player can stock more stuff but the content is enough for a HD-DVD. HD-DVD is obviously less expensive. I would prefer to see BluRay as a burner & not watcthing movie.

The problem with BluRay is the reading speed to take advantage of it. Though as you know, BluRay movie should respect the 1X speed to stearm the movie. So pray to see it look better than the other. :sly:
Not exactly sure what you are getting at in regards to reading speed….

One of the other advantages of Blu-ray is its higher video data rate (54Mbps) than HD DVD (36Mbps), and of course SD DVD (10Mbps). Both Disney and Fox have suggested that they plan on including exclusive special features that would take advantage of BD's wider bandwidth. This was even brought up for discussion at last year's conference of DVD Producers and the video production department heads from several of the major studios.

I do not personally expect this to happen any time soon, or that these special features will be so compelling as to make a significant difference on sales, but Blu-ray does have an advantage in video transfer speeds. It also has a slight advantage in video reference velocity speeds.

As far as read/write speeds, both Blu-ray and HD DVD are more than three times greater than equivalent RPM SD DVD drives. In other words, a 2x BD drive has a 8.6 Mbs transfer rate, while a 2x SD DVD drive has only a 2.6 Mbs transfer rate. While current SD DVD drives have higher RPM drives, it wont be long until both BD and HD DVD drives will surpass them in actual R/W transfer speeds as new drives come out with higher RPMs. There are already plans on releasing an 8x BD drive as early as 2007, which would be equivalent to a 26x SD DVD drive…. and of course they already have surpassed SD DVD in higher video playback data rates.

Another advantage of Blu-ray is the proprietary hard coating technology it uses to protect the discs from scratches, dust, and fingerprints. BD specs require a higher Taber Abrasion and Impact resistance. In addition, the BD hard coating is also engineered to have a low surface energy so that dust is less likely to stick to the surface, and fingerprints are more likely to form droplets rather than expand or stain the surface as they can with DVD.

For BD movies, this is not likely a big deal, unless you have kids with easy access to your DVDs, but with games, to have discs that are more resilient is a big plus!


BTW: The proposed 45G triple layer HD DVD disc was dropped from the final HD DVD specs for pre-recorded discs. This means for the entire lifetime of the format, there wont be any pre-recorded 45G HD DVD discs. In addition, the problem HD DVD has is that it uses the exact same disc structure as standard DVD, thus despite all efforts, after more than 10 years of development, no one has yet to make a mass produced triple layer DVD of any type.

The advantage of Blu-ray is not just having a higher capacity per layer, but it also can support several more layers than HD DVD due to its disc structure. TDK has already developed a 100G 4-layer BD disc, and is now working on a 200G 8-layer BD disc.

However, just like HD DVD, for pre-recorded discs, the final specs only support 2-layer discs. If these multi-layer BD discs are mass produced, they will be for PCs and recorders, and not for pre-recorded material – as the specs do not allow for it.
 
No, loading times on PS3 games will be generally reduced from what we've experienced, it's as much about caching data as the speed data can be pulled from a disk.
 
No, loading times on PS3 games will be generally reduced from what we've experienced, it's as much about caching data as the speed data can be pulled from a disk.
That would work for games like GT5, where you use the same cars and tracks many times, but what about games like, say, MGS4? I don't know what type of gameplay it is, but if the only recurring things for each level is Solid and his weapons, and you have to load everything else, without caching, it's going to take a while.
 
No it won't, it caches the next area before you get there. Games have been doing that for years, that's one reason there was no loading between areas in GTA:SA.
 
Duċk;2448428
Ok, so does that mean loading BD games on the PS3 is going to take forever?
I may have been mistaken on the R/W times regarding data:

www.blu-ray.com/faq
1.7 How fast can you read/write data on a Blu-ray disc?


According to the Blu-ray Disc specification, 1x speed is defined as 36Mbps. However, as BD-ROM movies will require a 54Mbps data transfer rate the minimum speed we're expecting to see is 2x (72Mbps). Blu-ray also has the potential for much higher speeds, as a result of the larger numerical aperture (NA) adopted by Blu-ray Disc. The large NA value effectively means that Blu-ray will require less recording power and lower disc rotation speed than DVD and HD-DVD to achieve the same data transfer rate. While the media itself limited the recording speed in the past, the only limiting factor for Blu-ray is the capacity of the hardware. If we assume a maximum disc rotation speed of 10,000 RPM, then 12x at the outer diameter should be possible (about 400Mbps). This is why the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) already has plans to raise the speed to 8x (288Mbps) or more in the future.
So even at 2x (72Mbps), this would be faster than any 6x DVD drive or any current HD DVD drive.

When I read the Blu-ray specs however, they did seem to imply a difference between data and video rates. When I get the chance I'll see if I can get any clarrification on this.

Perhaps the 2x 8.6 Mbs rate is for recording only?
 
Perhaps, regardless of the method or reading data, it's been proven that loading times are shorter for games on the PS3 compared to the PS2.
 
NEC now shipping dual-format Blu-Ray/HD-DVD chip
http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/artic...20061010:MTFH28742_2006-10-10_09-09-40_T33598

Just saw this story over at 1up, and it has some relevance here. Seems NEC is now producing and shipping a chip compatible with both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. So, thats good. We now just need some companies to step up and implement it. This sort of thing, much like what happened with DVD-A and SACD, was pretty inevitable. So, heres hoping at some point in the next year or so we see something come of this.

Hilg
 
The BluRay disk have an higher data space. So they can reduce the seeling time by useing more space in the disk. There's good possibility that games on PS3 load less than XBOX 360.
 
Mr. Deap
The BluRay disk have an higher data space. So they can reduce the seeling time by useing more space in the disk. There's good possibility that games on PS3 load less than XBOX 360.
There is also a chance for the disc to cache all level data and the like on the HDD, theoretically speaking.
 
Here is some more info on read times from GamePro's extensive XB360 vs PS3 vs WII comparrision:
There's been considerable controversy over the somewhat pokey data read rate of the 2x Blu-ray drive inside the PS3, leading some to suggest that the Xbox 360's 12x DVD-9 drive will actually perform faster and lead to shorter load times when compared to the PS3. As it turns out, this controversy has been overblown. The Xbox 360's DVD-9 drive slows as it reaches the inner rings of a dual-layer disc (from a top speed of 15 MB/s to a low of 4 MB/s), while the Blu-ray keeps a steady read rate (9 MB/s) under all conditions.
 
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