First Look at HD-DVD Drive

[DuckRacer]

Thought you all would like to know.

Microsoft details 360 accessories
Company announces pricing, release dates for camera, wireless steering wheel, wireless headset for Xbox 360s, gaming receiver for PCs.

By Tim Surette, GameSpot
Posted Aug 23, 2006 5:47 am PT
It's not just divas and fashionistas who like to accessorize. Peripherals and accessories are becoming big business for gaming companies, and new technology is allowing for even more high-tech gadgets to hang on the arms of next-generation systems.

Microsoft today dropped the final details of its fall lineup of Xbox 360 peripherals (and one PC accessory), including the pricing and release dates for the console's Web cam, wireless steering wheel, and wireless headset.

As previously stated (but not officially announced), the Xbox Live Vision camera will be released in the United States on September 19, though some stores have apparently already begun selling them. Rumors circulating that the camera would be available in a bundle for $39.99 were right, but didn't tell the whole story--an additional $79.99 bundle will also be offered.

The $39.99 package will include the camera, a one-month subscription to Xbox Live Gold, an Xbox 360 headset, and two Xbox Live Arcade games that support the camera--Uno and TotemBall. For two more $20s, gamers get everything in the previous bundle plus an upgrade to a full-year subscription to Xbox Live Gold, a third Xbox Live Arcade game (Robotron: 2084), and 200 Marketplace points.

Microsoft also announced the previously released Xbox Live Arcade games that would support the camera. Bankshot Billiards 2, Texas Hold 'Em, Hardwood Hearts, and Hardwood Spades will all incorporate video chat.

The Xbox 360 Wireless Racing Wheel will rev up cyber drivers in November for $149.99. As a bonus, Microsoft will also include a copy of a force-feedback version of Bizarre Creations' Project Gotham Racing 3 (while supplies last).

Those irked by the confinement of a wired Xbox Live headset will be able to free themselves up later this year. The Xbox 360 Wireless Headset will retail for $59.99 in November.

PC gamers won't be left out in the cold on these new wireless accessories. Microsoft is also releasing the Xbox 360 Wireless Gaming Receiver for Windows which allows wireless peripherals designed for the next-gen console to be used with PCs. The receiver will be available in late December for $19.99.

While the above items focus on the gameplay, they don't do a whole lot for the Xbox 360's aesthetics. Microsoft will also give Xbox 360s a makeover with some new faceplates. In early November, gamers can add Viva Piñata and Forza Motorsport 2 faceplates to their consoles for $19.99 each.

 

[YSSMAN]

Sounds good and all, but I'm still holding off on the camera system for the 360 (among other things). I watched the demo on GameSpot.com of the camera, and although it is pretty cool, there isn't enough out there yet to deem it a completely necessary purchase, yet. Will I buy one eventually? Chances are, yes. If the face-mapping stuff works out with the camera, assuming rumors are true, that may be a deal-sealer for $30... It would be fun to play Rainbow Six: Vegas and other rumored titles (such as TDU) with the cam-created avatar, or atleast I think so.

As for the wheel, it too sounds like a good idea, but I'm going to wait on that one as well. I never got into the whole wheel thing with GT, and I can't be certain that I'd be doing the same with PGR3 and Forza any time soon. Why? Well for one, it is $150... Thats a good chunk of what I make in my bi-weekly pay out. Will I eventually buy one? Probably. It will certainly make Forza 2 more interesting, and with my brother moving out soon, it gives me plenty of room to have a crazy setup once I turn his former bedroom into my multimedia "Awesometown."

 

[Pebb]

Sounds good and all, but I'm still holding off on the camera system for the 360 (among other things). I watched the demo on GameSpot.com of the camera, and although it is pretty cool, there isn't enough out there yet to deem it a completely necessary purchase, yet. Will I buy one eventually? Chances are, yes. If the face-mapping stuff works out with the camera, assuming rumors are true, that may be a deal-sealer for $30... It would be fun to play Rainbow Six: Vegas and other rumored titles (such as TDU) with the cam-created avatar, or atleast I think so.

As for the wheel, it too sounds like a good idea, but I'm going to wait on that one as well. I never got into the whole wheel thing with GT, and I can't be certain that I'd be doing the same with PGR3 and Forza any time soon. Why? Well for one, it is $150... Thats a good chunk of what I make in my bi-weekly pay out. Will I eventually buy one? Probably. It will certainly make Forza 2 more interesting, and with my brother moving out soon, it gives me plenty of room to have a crazy setup once I turn his former bedroom into my multimedia "Awesometown."

Its complety true that face mapping is in Raindow Six: LV.

 

[Mark T]

I wish they would make a keyboard and mouse for games like Ghost Recon. I really struggle with aiming when using the controller.

 

[YSSMAN]

...I wouldn't count that idea out, however Microsoft is working on an updated pad that is "designed" for FPS titles. I'd expect it to come out before the end of the year, but I could be wrong...

 

[DuckRacer]

In-depth look at the HD-DVD drive.

First Look: Xbox 360 HD-DVD Drive
When will we get these wonderful toys?
by Kathleen Sanders
September 18, 2006 - Microsoft hasn't told us how much the Xbox 360's HD-DVD drive will cost, but they do promise it will be the most affordable way to enjoy high definition DVDs this year. Our guess is that we'll see the add-on on shelves in December for about $200.

Microsoft's X360 HD-DVD drive is simple, compact, and well-designed. It attaches via a mini-USB to the X360 which is where all the processing for the drive will happen. This should keep the little drive from generating heat.

Although Microsoft wouldn't plug in the drive and show us it working for this demo, they told us it is going through QA and being sent home for real world testing with various MS employees now.

According to the rep, when it's running the drive makes just about as much noise as something spinning a disk 12 times per second should make. So, maybe it sounds something like your mother trying to vacuum inside a Super Collider? It remains to be heard.

On the back of the drive are two additional USB ports, so the drive will act as a hub rather than just occupy a valuable USB port on your X360. It also features a tab to add the X360 Wireless Network Adapter. The drive sit either horizontally or vertically which should make adding it to your entertainment center incredibly easy.

Right now there is a big question of HDMI connectivity -- an alternative to component connections it's an all-digital audio/video interface capable of transmitting uncompressed streams -- Microsoft said they have nothing to announce, but are considering the possibility.

We pressed this issue and asked if Microsoft is concerned about the fact that the Image Constraint Toke (ICT) component of HDCP/AACS copy-protection won't work over component video connections, which could make the X360 HD-DVD drive useless sometime in the future if the copy-protection scheme is fully implemented in HD-DVDs.
Microsoft replied via email:

"The image constraint token feature of AACS is an optional flag for the [motion picture] studios and several have publicly stated they have no plans to invoke [the copy-protection flags]. Therefore, the copy protection scheme is fully implemented in both HD DVD and Blu-ray today.

"We [Microsoft Corporation] do not see the absence of HDMI/HDCP as an issue over the lifetime of this generation of [the X360] console. HDMI/HDCP is still a very new interface and until it is supported broadly across the CE and PC industries and by consumers on a wide enough scale to be considered a standard, we don't expect anyone to impede content flow over non-HDMI devices (re: invoke the ICT)."

One Microsoft rep told us that "Let us [Microsoft] worry about that. The consumer shouldn't have to worry about that!"

Until we are actually able to plug it in and power it up that's all we know about this handy little peripheral. If you're an X360 owner and want to play HD-DVD movies this winter Microsoft seems to have designed the smartest and cheapest way to do just that.

 

[harrytuttle]

Congratulations, Microsoft, on becoming the first company in history to evolve from the intangible forms of bloatware to physical bloatware. Isn't anyone curious about the need for two devices with separate power cords for what is essentially one device? Doesn't Microsoft usually take their cues from Apple and other intelligent sources of industrial design?

Are these things stackable? What about the already shaky heat issues the main console is having? What about the total inability to watch HD-DVD movies in HD without HDMI? Sounds like a $200 sucker bet to me.

 

[DuckRacer]

What about the total inability to watch HD-DVD movies in HD without HDMI?

Umm, you can watch them in HD without HDMI. It's just that you need HDMI for HD if they invoke ICT, which no one is going to use.

 

[YSSMAN]

Very interesting indeed...

I have been awaiting more "solid" details on the HD-DVD drive, particularly as the PS3 is begining to show just over the horizon. Once that drops, the format wars will be on, and no one really has a clear picture as to what can be considered an early favorite.

...Blu-Ray continues to be too expensive, too-rare, and continues to lack the "polish" of HD-DVDs given the use of poor codecs. Of course much of that will probably change in the near future, and given that it can support up to 1080p for the techies out there, they stand to gain a good ammount of ground... If the PS3 can get on it's feet and make a dent in the DVD-player market.

On the opposite side of the token, HD-DVD lacks the support of several major film companies, many of which include libraries like MGM with the James Bond franchise. Alike the Blu-Ray players, HD-DVD penetration into the market has been a slow process, and although their players are much cheaper and are selling well enough, they aren't the "must have" player standard yet. Speaking of standards, it is still questionable as to wether or not HD-DVD will be able to scale up to 1080p, but even then, most people will not be able to tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p, and even then the MAJORITY of HDTVs don't support it to begin with. Granted, things will change, but we are looking at a time-frame that is more than a year away...

Deadlock is the problem, and it looks as though the 360 and PS3 will both play key-roles in how the situation unfolds. The 360 will still be one of the cheapest HD-DVD players you can buy with the add-on, as I belive most players these days shoot between $500-600 USD. Blu-Ray is even more outrageous, I want to say crossing well into the $1000+ USD range.

Can value overcome techie wet-dreams?

...We will just have to "wait and see"...

 

[CFM]

Very interesting indeed...

I have been awaiting more "solid" details on the HD-DVD drive, particularly as the PS3 is begining to show just over the horizon. Once that drops, the format wars will be on, and no one really has a clear picture as to what can be considered an early favorite.

...Blu-Ray continues to be too expensive, too-rare, and continues to lack the "polish" of HD-DVDs given the use of poor codecs. Of course much of that will probably change in the near future, and given that it can support up to 1080p for the techies out there, they stand to gain a good ammount of ground... If the PS3 can get on it's feet and make a dent in the DVD-player market.

On the opposite side of the token, HD-DVD lacks the support of several major film companies, many of which include libraries like MGM with the James Bond franchise. Alike the Blu-Ray players, HD-DVD penetration into the market has been a slow process, and although their players are much cheaper and are selling well enough, they aren't the "must have" player standard yet. Speaking of standards, it is still questionable as to wether or not HD-DVD will be able to scale up to 1080p, but even then, most people will not be able to tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p, and even then the MAJORITY of HDTVs don't support it to begin with. Granted, things will change, but we are looking at a time-frame that is more than a year away...

Deadlock is the problem, and it looks as though the 360 and PS3 will both play key-roles in how the situation unfolds. The 360 will still be one of the cheapest HD-DVD players you can buy with the add-on, as I belive most players these days shoot between $500-600 USD. Blu-Ray is even more outrageous, I want to say crossing well into the $1000+ USD range.

Can value overcome techie wet-dreams?

...We will just have to "wait and see"...

Remember how Beta VCR's were higher quality then VHS, but no one bought them due to the higher prices? Let's hope we don't get stuck with the inferior format of HD-DVD due to the same consumer concerns...but it's probably going to happen. The average walmart shopper will understand what a Hi-Def DVD is, but recognizing what a Blu-Ray disc is might be another matter. And all of the HD-DVD's I've seen at the stores here retail for $25, Blu-Ray is at $30.

As to this add-on drive for my XB360, not interested in the least bit.

 

[Flerbizky]

Remember how Beta VCR's were higher quality then VHS, but no one bought them due to the higher prices? Let's hope we don't get stuck with the inferior format of HD-DVD due to the same consumer concerns...but it's probably going to happen. The average walmart shopper will understand what a Hi-Def DVD is, but recognizing what a Blu-Ray disc is might be another matter. And all of the HD-DVD's I've seen at the stores here retail for $25, Blu-Ray is at $30.

As to this add-on drive for my XB360, not interested in the least bit.

People are a lot more informed these days.. And I think that both formats _just_ might survive.. There's a lot more room for gadget today than back in the 70s with Beta vs. VHS. Back then, you had a TV, a stereo with a cassette and a turntable, and _maybe_ if you were radical and on the cutting edge - You had an Atari... And that was it. There were no more gadgets. Then the VCR struggled its was past the RIAA and became something everybody had..

Look how many gadgets you have in your home in comparison. I'm sure they'll be room for 2 more - And I bet you that it'll only be a matter of time before a combo will come in, replacing both systems if both "lives"...

I'm probably wrong though.....

 

[vectradriver]

The significant difference is in the capacity. HD levels are pretty immaterial for Europe, where only now are 720p televisions down to a 'budget' price. My 32" Philips was £800 for example. With a theoretical maximum of 30gb vs 50gb, I doubt this will really matter a great deal. I doubt many blue-ray or HD-DVD discs will use the full capacity for films.

I think you'd have to be pretty stupid to re-buy all your old DVD's on any of the new formats. It's the same film, doesn't make the plot any better, so why spend another £20 buying the same film?

 

[DuckRacer]

Very interesting indeed...

I have been awaiting more "solid" details on the HD-DVD drive, particularly as the PS3 is begining to show just over the horizon. Once that drops, the format wars will be on, and no one really has a clear picture as to what can be considered an early favorite.

...Blu-Ray continues to be too expensive, too-rare, and continues to lack the "polish" of HD-DVDs given the use of poor codecs. Of course much of that will probably change in the near future, and given that it can support up to 1080p for the techies out there, they stand to gain a good ammount of ground... If the PS3 can get on it's feet and make a dent in the DVD-player market.

On the opposite side of the token, HD-DVD lacks the support of several major film companies, many of which include libraries like MGM with the James Bond franchise. Alike the Blu-Ray players, HD-DVD penetration into the market has been a slow process, and although their players are much cheaper and are selling well enough, they aren't the "must have" player standard yet. Speaking of standards, it is still questionable as to wether or not HD-DVD will be able to scale up to 1080p, but even then, most people will not be able to tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p, and even then the MAJORITY of HDTVs don't support it to begin with. Granted, things will change, but we are looking at a time-frame that is more than a year away...

Deadlock is the problem, and it looks as though the 360 and PS3 will both play key-roles in how the situation unfolds. The 360 will still be one of the cheapest HD-DVD players you can buy with the add-on, as I belive most players these days shoot between $500-600 USD. Blu-Ray is even more outrageous, I want to say crossing well into the $1000+ USD range.

Can value overcome techie wet-dreams?

...We will just have to "wait and see"...

Well, even though HD-DVD has better picture quality, and it's less expensive, the PS3 is going to put hundreds and hundreds of thousands of Blu-ray players in everyone's home. Also, even though it costs more money, PC people will opt for Blu-ray since it has a much larger capacity (30GB dual layer HD-DVD < 50GB Blu-ray).

I think this time Blu-ray will win since it's the superior format, and you have a ton of things that would benefit more from Blu-ray than HD-DVD.

 

[YSSMAN]

Time will tell, but it has seemed that many of the techies are going for the HD-DVD option as of right now mostly for price and the general ease of use over the overly complicated Blu-Ray situation right now. Granted I think things could be completely different a year from now, as I'm positive that the PS3 will push Blu-Ray DVD prices down quickly.

...That said, it still seems like the format is two steps ahead while most people are still a step behind from where they "should" be. Considering that we are still more than a year away from "affordable" 1080p TVs, and still a bit further away from the Federal Mandated switch to HDTV (comes in 2007, right?), Blu-Ray doesn't have all the cards going for it right now. Americans are known to buy the thing that is "just as good" and is "cheaper" and that makes a very strong case for HD-DVD.

Of course what would lock it down as a winner would be if Vista didn't support Blu-Ray, but thankfully Microsoft isn't that stupid, and thus let it in.

 

[harrytuttle]

People are a lot more informed these days.. And I think that both formats _just_ might survive.. There's a lot more room for gadget today than back in the 70s with Beta vs. VHS. Back then, you had a TV, a stereo with a cassette and a turntable, and _maybe_ if you were radical and on the cutting edge - You had an Atari... And that was it. There were no more gadgets. Then the VCR struggled its was past the RIAA and became something everybody had..

Look how many gadgets you have in your home in comparison. I'm sure they'll be room for 2 more - And I bet you that it'll only be a matter of time before a combo will come in, replacing both systems if both "lives"...

I'm probably wrong though.....

^ Yes and no. There were lots of "gadgets" 25 years ago: reel-to-reels were still around; the laserdisc was high-end in 1980; "projection TVs" were new and varied just as much as today; all sorts of "digital games" like Simon and Merlin (yes, adults were just as childish back then as they are now). The difference was that all the good stuff was serious money. Even 5 years ago plasma TVs were $10,000+ for something that looked just awful by today's standards. A good DTS-capable receiver was hard to find, let alone afford. Now even Best Buy has something that I might accept...not that I'd be caught dead in that place.

Beta failed for the same reason Apple almost failed: licensing. Sony knew they had a superior format (although the 1-hour SP limit was a bit small), and wanted everything for themselves. The only non-Sony Beta players were both rare and extremely expensive compared to those who purchased JVC-licensed devices.

"Both formats" have never survived, and it is extremely unlikely that such a thing is possible. This is not the same type of competition between DSS and digital cable. Those are service providers, and do not require the same type of consumer purchasing; it's not much different than choosing a Yamaha receiver over Sony. You can still get CNN from both providers. VHS vs Beta, VHS vs laserdisc, 8-track vs cassette, MD vs CD-R, tastes great vs less filling...all have been very one-sided battles. The only time both have survived (to my knowledge) is DVD-A vs SACD, and both are pretty much DOA.

It's a shame, too. SACD 2ch is the best approximation of vinyl that I've ever heard.

On the opposite side of the token, HD-DVD lacks the support of several major film companies, many of which include libraries like MGM with the James Bond franchise.

I would think having New Line, Paramount, Universal, and Warner studios is a pretty good backup plan.

...That said, it still seems like the format is two steps ahead while most people are still a step behind from where they "should" be. Considering that we are still more than a year away from "affordable" 1080p TVs, and still a bit further away from the Federal Mandated switch to HDTV (comes in 2007, right?), Blu-Ray doesn't have all the cards going for it right now. Americans are known to buy the thing that is "just as good" and is "cheaper" and that makes a very strong case for HD-DVD.

The mandate (currently set at February 17, 2009, but that may change yet again) is for digital, over-the-air broadcasts, not HD. The old rabbit ears on your 13" Sony from 1978 will have to be replaced with some sort of set-top box, but the TV itself will work.

Umm, you can watch them in HD without HDMI. It's just that you need HDMI for HD if they invoke ICT, which no one is going to use.

In addition, HD DVD players must follow AACS guidelines pertaining to outputs over analog connections. This is set by a flag called the Image Constraint Token (ICT), which restricts the resolution for analog outputs without HDCP to 960×540. The decision to set the flag to restrict output ("down-convert") is left to the content provider. Warner Pictures is a proponent of ICT, and it is expected that Paramount and Universal will implement down-conversion as well [10]. As of March 2006, 5 of the 6 studios releasing HD DVD content have announced they will not use ICT/down-conversion for the time being [11]. AACS guidelines require that any title that implements the ICT must clearly state so on the packaging.

The likelihood of any HD discs not having ICT in 2007 is about the same chance that the RIAA will stop suing your grandmother. The RIAA is a very irrational child, and will invariably do the wrong thing in a crisis situation.

Well, even though HD-DVD has better picture quality, and it's less expensive, the PS3 is going to put hundreds and hundreds of thousands of Blu-ray players in everyone's home. Also, even though it costs more money, PC people will opt for Blu-ray since it has a much larger capacity (30GB dual layer HD-DVD < 50GB Blu-ray).

Technically, BD is the superior format. And I hope it wins out (although that may be because I have a strong bias against Microsoft). While HD-DVD has 45GB discs in the works, BD has countered with 100GB and 200GB in lab tests. BTW, 200GB should allow for a 2-hour movie at around 4K.

Quite honestly, I think Blu-Ray will live or die with the PS3. If the PS3 is any kind of success (even a minor one), then Sony will have won both the mind- and market-share race to get high-definition disc players in homes. The fact that the XBOX requires a separate module and has already experienced their launch sales rush implies that there won't be many HD-DVD players sold.

 

[a6m5]

My coworker was telling me(big Xbox Nut) that this HD-DVD add-on was going to be $100. I was pretty impressed, as that would have made the pricing competitive with that cheaper PS3, but I guess he was misinformed.

Great discussion going on here, btw. 👍

Edit:
Wow. Nice post by harrytuttle. 👍 I also believe that there will be a clear winner between Blu-ray and HD-DVD. I think Blu-ray has way more backing. Everytime Sony sell a Playstation 3, they are selling a Blu-ray drive, too. IMO, that seals the deal.

I do however like the addition of the optional drive as an accessory for the Xbox 360. For those who plan on getting HD-DVDs, it gives them an sensible alternative.

Unfortunately for Microsoft though, they are paying the price of their early Xbox 360 release. They wanted to take advantage of beating Nintendo and Sony to the punch in the "Console Wars" by releasing their console early, and now they are settling for add-on that reminds the older guys of SEGA Genesis.

 

[YSSMAN]

Big news from Tokyo!

In a press event ahead of Friday's Tokyo Game Show, Microsoft has made several announcements, among them the surprise of a global software update that will allow games and movies to run in 1080p on the 360. The update is tentatively set for "fall," and should not require an HDMI cable. Microsoft's Shane Kim tells Kotaku that current 720p apps will be up-sampled, while native 1080 products should work without problems. If some movie studios insist on HDMI input for the sake of copy protection, Microsoft may consider a hardware solution. Kim notes that most third-party and all Microsoft Game Studios products will continue to use 720p.

Another announcement is the Japanese date and price for the external HD-DVD drive: November 17th at 19,800 yen. That's just under a week past the release of Sony's PS3. Microsoft is also planning a few things for Xbox Live, such as a Pac-Man World Championship in early 2007, and more classic releases through the Arcade, such as Contra, Gyruss, Dig Dug, Track & Field, New Rally-X, Rush'n Attack, and Ms. Pac-Man. Japan will get an exclusive in the form of Yie Ar Kung Fu, described as one of the first fighting games.

That 19,800 Yen? That equals out to about $160 USD, so we could be seeing bundeled HD-DVD/360 setups for as little as $450... Undercutting the PS3 by $50, and still includes 1080p support.

...So I don't wanna hear about all of the "1080p makes the PS3 special" anymore...

 

[Dave A]

The HD-DVD addon will retail in the US for $200, and in the UK likely for &#163;150, also bear in mind a lot fo people already have thier 360's and have paid &#163;300 for them, add the cost of the HD-DVD onto that and your blatantly paying more for less with the XB360. A bundle package may work out at $450, that would make sense from MS's perspective to undercut the PS3, but for $50 difference your still getting more on the PS3. Time will tell what the consumers choose.

 

[YSSMAN]

^ Certainly so... But now that both will offer 1080p support, it is going to come down to market share and how the format wars play out for non-gaming systems as well.

 

[Dave A]

Yeah, I bet Sony wern't expecting that announcment from MS about the 1080p, alot will come down to if the consumers feel the extra features and power of the PS3 is really needed, or if they'll be fine with the XB360. I already have a 360, I plan on getting a PS3 too for MGS4 if nothing else, but I certainly would want to put a bet on which console will win this war.

 

[Tornado]

I personally think that selling the HD-DVD drive doesn't really count as "support for the format," as selling it for $200 almost assures its failure. While it may change soon, DVD's are still the current standard, and the normal 360 can play those. Even if this thing doesn't completely tank (which it will, I'm sure), it still won't be able to compete with the amounts of PS3's that will bee in people's homes.

...So I don't wanna hear about all of the "1080p makes the PS3 special" anymore...

I'll stop saying it as soon as the 360 games start being in 1080p. I could care less whether or not the movies are. I personally won't buy either format for movies until one wins, and even then I'll probably only buy it for data storage (assuming the prices for blank media drops down to the $20 per disc range).

 

[KENJIusa]

Andre Vrignaud, director of Technical Strategy for Xbox Live, made comments to this effect in his blog on Ozmandias.com. According to Vrignaud:

"There's been a lot of interest in the PS3 due to its stated 1080p output for both games and movies. What's interesting is that a lot of folks don't realize how meaningless 1080p actually is in this generation."

MS makes me so confused, funny company, ain't it?

 

[Tornado]

Not true. They are having him say that so they can downplay what Sony has announced. I happen to agree with it if only they would themselves stop spwing meaningless stats.

 

[JNasty4G63]

1 - The update for 1080p for the Xbox is just for the movies sake, not the games. All HD-DVD movies are encoded at 1080p, so to get the full resolution out of them, the XBox needs to be able to output that.

2 - The problem comes from the fact that they are using the XBox for output. Meaning, you will only be able to use VGA or Component to send the signal if you want the high def video. And yes, a component cable WILL send a 1080p signal. Its finding a display that will accept a 1080p signal over component thats the problem. Most all displays that can show a 1080p signal only do it over either HDMI or DVI. The component signal is converted down to 720p.

The VGA cable can send it. But to be honest, if I have this great new digital format with super-high res digital video and uncompressed digital audio, the last thing I want to do is convert the video to analog so a VGA cable can send it. Just to have it end up at the display, and needing to be converted back to digital for display. So, thats not that great either.

3 - Most all the movie studios have said that they are not going to start implementing the ICT until 2009, at the earliest. With so many people out there with "older" HD sets that aren't HDCP compliant, the last thing they want to do is cut those people off and force them into something. They are going to give the market time, and then give it a go. So, I agree with MS on this one. The lack of HDCP isn't really an issue, since by the time the ICT "switch" is thrown, the XBox 360 will be out to pasture.

Basically, I'm ok with MS doing this. Would it be nice if the XBox would have had the HD-DVD drive built in??? Sure. But, that would have added that $200 into the cost, and we would have TWO consoles that cost $600. I'd rather have the option. Sure, the extra space on the disc for data would be nice. But, games have come on multiple discs before, so it won't be anything new.

The Xbox is doing fine right now, as far as I'm concerned. They have had an entire year to get consoles, games and peripherals out to the market. And, they are going well with it. Giving people the OPTION to add on a High Def video player if they see fit to is nice. Optional cost over forced cost is always better in my book. And, given the technical limitations I discussed earlier, this HD-DVD drive is only going to give you a 90% experience anyway. So, its really just a bonus, if you choose to want it.

Hilg

 

[Omnis]

I want my plug and play xbox 360 female disk drive.

1080p without HDMI... too many wires for my tastes.

 

[YSSMAN]

1 - The update for 1080p for the Xbox is just for the movies sake, not the games. All HD-DVD movies are encoded at 1080p, so to get the full resolution out of them, the XBox needs to be able to output that.

Quite right... Which leads me to...

2 - The problem comes from the fact that they are using the XBox for output. Meaning, you will only be able to use VGA or Component to send the signal if you want the high def video. And yes, a component cable WILL send a 1080p signal. Its finding a display that will accept a 1080p signal over component thats the problem. Most all displays that can show a 1080p signal only do it over either HDMI or DVI. The component signal is converted down to 720p.

Which has been my complaint about Sony pushing 1080p when nobody will be able to use it, much less tell a great ammount of difference between 1080i and 1080p on most forms of media...

Basically, I'm ok with MS doing this. Would it be nice if the XBox would have had the HD-DVD drive built in???

They are "working on it" for later on down the road, so we will see what happens. It wouldn't surprise me to see that maybe by mid/late 2007, 360s may start shipping with the HD-DVD drive built in...

...Which makes you wonder how far we are away from HD-DVD titles?

Apparently Microsoft has a "plan" for everything (much in the way God has a "plan" for all of us?) and how it will work out, us early adapters, and those who are just buying brand-new.

 

[JNasty4G63]

With this drive, when you watch a movie, you will end up with one of 2 scenarios, and a wishful 3rd. These are assuming you HAVE a 1080p display to view them with....

1 - You use the component cables from the back of the Xbox to your set. The first big IF comes from whether or not it will even display a signal from that input with a 1080p signal coming in. Some, if not most, won't. If it does happen to show a signal from the component input with 1080p coming in, the set is most likely converting that 1080p signal to a 1080i or 720p signal, and then converting it again. The 1080p/60 spec was just never intended to be sent from component cable, even though they WILL do it. So, most display sets will not even accept a 1080p/60 signal over the component.

2 - You use the VGA cables. Once the Xbox gets its update to support 1080p/60, the VGA cable will easilly send that. The problem again comes from conversion. You are going to have to convert that digital signal to analog so the VGA cable can send it. Then, when the display gets that signal, it will be converting it BACK to digital to display it. A wasted step, and a big chance for quality loss.

3 - This is the wishful thinking one. The other hope is that MS will release an output cable with HDMI. That would solve everything. You would then still preserve the digital signal the entire way. And, your 1080p set will gladly accept that signal from HDMI. That would be perfect. The full 1080p video from the HD-DVD being sent straight digital to your 1080p set.

But, the downside of this, and I need to read up to make sure, is if I remember correctly, the way the video output of the XBox is built it doesn't allow for a DIGITAL video output. This is mostly speculation. But, back when the Xbox was released, a few sites took them apart and did a thorough examination of the parts. Most came to the conclusion that it appears the current output connector for the Xbox is analog only.....

Unfortunately in the first version of the Xbox 360, that AV cable port appears to be strictly analog. Microsoft has indicated that they may support HDMI at a later point in time, but that may require a new revision of the motherboard - assuming there is no digital video signal carried over the AV port. On the flip side, ATI has had a history of placing TMDS transmitters on their GPUs, so it may be possible that a digital video signal is present at this connector today, although if it were we don't understand why Microsoft wouldn't offer a DVI/HDMI cable option now.

We'll have to wait and see closer to the time this drive is released to see what comes about. Maybe the output DOES actually have a digital signal present, and an accessory HDMI cable adaptor is all thats needed. It appears not, but we'll wait and see.

The one thing to remember from ALL OF THIS is that if you don't have a 1080p set, you don't have to worry. If your TV is a 720p or 1080i set, you'll be just fine. You will just set the output on the XBox to that resolution and have it downconvert the 1080p video signal from the HD-DVD to that resolution and send it over the component cable like you do already. You'll still be getting a very good picture, and no worries about cables.

Hilg

 

[Tornado]

...Which makes you wonder how far we are away from HD-DVD titles?

It will never happen in this generation. Not even Microsoft is stupid enough to try to force the millions who have bought 360's to upgrade to a considerably more expensive system just to play games, unless Microsoft starts giving away the upgraded system. The closest they will conceivably get it to make HD-DVD/DVD games, which use both drives. Microsoft is not willing to piss away that much money. Everyone in the industry still remembers the Sega games that required the 32X (which mostly sucked anyways), Sega CD (which were mostly all right) or even both.

 

[JNasty4G63]

Which has been my complaint about Sony pushing 1080p when nobody will be able to use it, much less tell a great ammount of difference between 1080i and 1080p on most forms of media.

Well, with the "Premium" version of the PS3, or the non-tard version as most call it, they do have an available HDMI output connector. So, with the PS3, you WILL be able to send full digital 1080p from that to your 1080p set, if you have one.

This all is really just a problem for VERY few people right now. There are a good number of 1080p sets starting to show, and prices are coming down quite well. But still, it will be a while before 1080p is the "norm" and we have to worry about our consoles outputing it.

It wouldn't surprise me to see that maybe by mid/late 2007, 360s may start shipping with the HD-DVD drive built in.

I read that MS is in fact working on this for down the road. But, and this is the big BUT here, it will only be for movies. They might in fact release an updated console in a year or so that comes with the HD-DVD drive just built in. But, games will continue to be built for DVD only. You can't just switch formats and FORCE people to buy the NEW version of the console if they want to play new games. But, if you want the games, AND a built in HD-DVD drive, you can have it. So again, I wouldn't worry about that.

Hilg

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

"We [Microsoft Corporation] do not see the absence of HDMI/HDCP as an issue over the lifetime of this generation of [the X360] console. HDMI/HDCP is still a very new interface and until it is supported broadly across the CE and PC industries and by consumers on a wide enough scale to be considered a standard, we don't expect anyone to impede content flow over non-HDMI devices (re: invoke the ICT)."

While I agree that there is no sign that the studios will be using the Image Constraint Token any time soon, Microsoft is clearly misrepresenting the importance of HDMI, and its impact on the industry. DVI (HDMI's predecessor) has been around since 1999, and HDMI has been in consumer products for more than three years. It is not only a standard, but every new consumer based HDTV display now supports HDMI. Especially with the new HDMI 1.3, there are significant performance advantages to HDMI over component, and it isn&#8217;t simply a question of whether or not HD sources will or will not include the ICT.

Well, even though HD-DVD has better picture quality, and it's less expensive, the PS3 is going to put hundreds and hundreds of thousands of Blu-ray players in everyone's home. Also, even though it costs more money, PC people will opt for Blu-ray since it has a much larger capacity (30GB dual layer HD-DVD < 50GB Blu-ray).

Good points, except that HD DVD dos not have better picture quality. The transfers on the HD DVD discs are mostly better, largely thanks to VC1. However, both formats support all the new codecs. It is up to the studios to decide what codec they want to use, and even more importantly, it is the responsibility of each authoring house to produce an excellent transfer.

Now to be fair to the studios who released early BD titles, Microsoft played dirty and made it next to impossible for them to get their hands of VC1 authoring tools, which is one of the reasons they were released using MPEG2. Warner is releasing future BD titles in VC1, while others are also considering MPEG4.

Unfortunately, neither format will show well if given badly mastered transfers or transfers made from poor quality print negatives, which is one of the problems with some of the titles on Blu-ray right now. As they say... garbage in - garbage out.

Blu-ray has the capacity to allow the studios to produce better looking films, and interactive special features due to the higher data capacity and bandwidth, but this is in the hands of the studios, and not the formats.

If there is a lousy looking HD DVD or Blu-ray disc... just like standard DVDs, complain to the studio that produced it. More times than not, image quality, or lack there of, is largely dependent on the quality of the original source (negatives, prints) and those involved with the transfer.

Unless Microsoft adds HDMI 1.3 support to their HD DVD Xbox drive, and developes HD DVD versions of games for those customers with HD DVD equipped Xboxes, then I strongly suspect Microsoft isn't going to be selling many of these drives (built-in or not), as they wont be of much use compared to both current and future video and gaming technology.