FITT American Classics Shootout - Winners announced! Congrats NEWDRIVER2 and Motor City Hami!

hello,

Out of the GT loop for a while now, but I feel like I should get back into things. Put me down for Tuna!
Have forgotten most of everything about tuning, so this should be interesting. Now what car...
 
Can I tune as well? That is if you'll allow the Ghia. I've been having a go at tuning it, so will see how things go. If not the Ghia then let me know when you've restricted some cars so I have an idea of what's eligible.
 
just make the restriction to a 350 CI (5.7 Liter) or more engine and you will likely get a level playing field (in addition to using actual tire shredding muscle cars).

the z28, convertible vette, mach1, trans-am all have smaller engines and would be the rabbits if not omitted.
 
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@esoxhntr the Trans Am has a 400ci/6.5liter engine.

The AAR Cuda has a 340ci/5.5liter engine and the GT350 has a 289ci/4.2liter engine yet neither of them will dominate the field.

My vote for what its worth would be to not allow the Z28, Corvettes and Trans Am. So far other cars I've tested including the Camaro SS have been running very close lap times, so people will have a wide selection of cars to choose from that have a good chance to be competitive.

Note: Somehow have not tested the Mach 1 yet, but if I recal right, it was a bit off the Z28s pace in GT5. Doubt PD has made changes that would help it that much.
 
my bad I thought the Trans Am had a 289 or something like that.

a big block and it was still that slow IRL? :D mid 70s were a terrible time for v8s with the fuel embargo

The MACH1 was close to the Z28, almost as fast in GT5 so I suspect it's the same in GT6. The 350 vette should be ok, it's the convertible that is quicker than the rest.
 
@esoxhntr I believe the 400 in the Trans Am was a small block...
Anyways in stock trim its only rated at 219hp 321ft-lb torque and the car weighs 1640kg, so yeah it was very slow compared to the muscle cars of the '60s and early '70s.

Between emmisions control laws, car safety laws and insurance companies the american car maker's couldn't afford to produce and sell factory hot rods in the mid '70s and it wasn't until Ford started building 5.0 Mustangs in the '80s that we started to see some real performance again.
 
Should we do a mandatory oil change before adding parts just in case there are multiple tunes on the same car?
 
iainoflo85
Can I tune as well? That is if you'll allow the Ghia. I've been having a go at tuning it, so will see how things go. If not the Ghia then let me know when you've restricted some cars so I have an idea of what's eligible.
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The Ghia was more of a concept car, not a production car, and it's pre-muscle era so it would be iffy
 
jtqmopar
The Ghia was more of a concept car, not a production car, and it's pre-muscle era so it would be iffy
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Right - well I don't know my muscle from my . . . well another American style of car. So I guess I need some idea of what is obviously muscle.

I picked it because it was American, pre-1979 and under 500PP on Sports Hards, lol. But I can use another if need be.
 
With no Bob's to run cars until they get dirty oil I'd say yes to doing oil change on all cars.

Depending on how much a Test driver runs a car it could start losing power on stock oil before testing is complete and an oil change would obviously mess up any tunes that didn't call for it.

Its easy and cheap to refresh oil, trying to run a car back to level of no oil change or dirty oil requires much more of a tester's time.
 
I've been following all the FITT discussions and would love to get involved as a tester. I'm not a particularly fast driver and I recently started driving manual instead of auto, but man do I love some big american muscle and laguna seca.
 
@iainoflo85 the definition of a "muscle car" is a bit murky.
Here is at least a partial list:
Camaro SS, Camaro Z28, El Camino SS 396, Nova SS, Chevelle SS 454, Charger 440 R/T, Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi, Challenger R/T, Mustang Mach 1, Cougar XR-7, AAR Cuda Six Barrel, Cuda 440 Six Pack, Superbird, Firebird Trans Am, Tempest Le Mans GTO, GT350 and GT35R.

Many don't consider the "Pony Cars" (Mustang, Camaro, Cuda, etc.) to be true "Muscle Cars". Likewise despite having big V8s the Corvette is classed as a "Sports car" by most.

Cars like the Nova, Chevelle and GTO in the game are the "real muscle cars" according to many. They were the auto makers small and mid size bodied cars with huge engines stuffed into them.
 
XDesperado67
@esoxhntr I believe the 400 in the Trans Am was a small block...
Anyways in stock trim its only rated at 219hp 321ft-lb torque and the car weighs 1640kg, so yeah it was very slow compared to the muscle cars of the '60s and early '70s.

Between emmisions control laws, car safety laws and insurance companies the american car maker's couldn't afford to produce and sell factory hot rods in the mid '70s and it wasn't until Ford started building 5.0 Mustangs in the '80s that we started to see some real performance again.
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Don't wanna start a Ford vs Chevy bit here, but I don't think the 5.0 is the engine that brought HP back to the USA. :)


XDesperado67
With no Bob's to run cars until they get dirty oil I'd say yes to doing oil change on all cars.

Depending on how much a Test driver runs a car it could start losing power on stock oil before testing is complete and an oil change would obviously mess up any tunes that didn't call for it.

Its easy and cheap to refresh oil, trying to run a car back to level of no oil change or dirty oil requires much more of a tester's time.
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It's easier not to change oil than it is to change oil. Because not doing something is easier than doing it. ;)
In GT5, it took 5,000KM to wear down stock oil, have you confirmed that it's less in GT6? (Surely testers won't drive 3,100miles)

For the record - The actual reason I dislike oil changes in GT, is because 5%HP for oil is BS, and cars have actual real world power ratings without the change.
 
Idea* Why don't we just "select" a group that we know are competitive?

Camaro SS, Camaro Z28, El Camino SS 396, Nova SS, Chevelle SS 454, Charger 440 R/T, Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi, Challenger R/T, Mustang Mach 1, Cougar XR-7, AAR Cuda Six Barrel, Cuda 440 Six Pack, Superbird, Firebird Trans Am, Tempest Le Mans GTO, GT350 and GT35oR.
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?
 
I've had cars start losing power under 500 miles even though it said the factory oil was still good...

@CSLACR yes there were other cars that started making decent power in the early '80s but the 5.0 was both cheap to buy and easy to modify comparatively speaking.
 
XDesperado67
My vote for what its worth would be to not allow the Z28, Corvettes and Trans Am. So far other cars I've tested including the Camaro SS have been running very close lap times, so people will have a wide selection of cars to choose from that have a good chance to be competitive.
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Sorry to keep folks waiting, had to pick up some slack for folk out of the office. :crazy:

I agree here and will update the OP soon. The Z/28, Corvettes and Trans Am will be ineligible for this competition.
jtqmopar
Should we do a mandatory oil change before adding parts just in case there are multiple tunes on the same car?
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Frankly, in not going to police it. Not that there any way to do so. I would suggest everyone do so to make sure builds match up but there's not any way to make sure.
iainoflo85
Right - well I don't know my muscle from my . . . well another American style of car. So I guess I need some idea of what is obviously muscle.

I picked it because it was American, pre-1979 and under 500PP on Sports Hards, lol. But I can use another if need be.
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Again, not really a sticking point here. As long as we fit into year, tires, country and PP, go with it. I find the "what is a true muscle car" debate tiresome and full of bias anyway. :embarrassed:

I will update the OP later tonight and the lists as well. Welcome to all the new faces!
 
I'm with DB on the "true muscle" debate, but I don't think any definition includes less cylinders than 8. (Idk what a Ghia is)
 
The Ghia is the new Plymouth from Pebble Beach last year. Like the Pozzi and Stielow Camaros from SEMA. Goofy looking if you ask me. It's one of the prize cars I think. It's in my garage and I know I didn't buy it.
 
Tested Mach 1 with an initial tune I made. Both with and without spoilers (Slight difference). Laguna Seca has never been one of my strong tracks, and my driving skills aren't what they were few months back. Couldn't do a flawless lap. Was in the 36.2's consistently - although on a perfect lap I'm pretty sure 35's should be doable. Dunno how fast other cars are - just tested this one first.

Still have no idea what I'm doing with the dampers, haha.
 
Oil change is a bit of a challenge if we are not able to share cars. Each tester must build each car, correct? If this is the case, I am seeing about 140 miles and hp begins to drop.

The other thing we need to consider is that no oil change is more PP friendly than after a fresh oil change. I am not saying that dirty oil is PP friendly. What I am saying is that a brand new, zero mile car will have more HP at the stock PP than a car with zero miles, taken to the garage for an oil change then power limited back to stock. HP will be lower.

So, if oil change is not required, all testers who run my tune must purchase a brand new car to build it to specs and test it no more than 140 miles without the need to buy another one. If anyone else in the competition has done the same as me, they will not be able to use the same car for testing... yep... off to the dealership to buy another.

I recommend that we mandate oil change. It can be policed because the testers need to build each ride, correct?
 
Thanks Hami for helping make the case for doing oil changes.👍👍
 
@DigitalBaka. In the OP you put me under tuners instead of testers. While I certainly would love to participate as a tuner someday I don't think I'm quite there yet. I'll start out testing some fabulous cars and learning
 

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