FITT - Federation of International Tuners and Test-Drivers

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Pete05
Greetings all,
I'd just like to throw some ideas out there for future FITT events and gauge the interest level.

  • NASCAR at Indianapolis Road Course or Big Willow
  • GT3 cars at Bathurst
  • GT500 at Fuji GP
I've got more ideas that need a little more refining but the ones listed above are ready to go should the interest level be high enough.
Feedback sought & welcome.

:cheers:
Pete
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I like this mate 👍.
 
After playing with a Shelby GT350 I would like to pitch the idea of a Trans Am inspired 500pp challenge(no I won't be entering said Shelby) but rules as follows.

Track: Apricot Hill(rumored to be based off a Shut down Trans Am track in Iowa) or Laguna Seca
PP: 500
Tires: SS or lower
Year: <1980
Car Limitation: <6.0l or 6000cc upper limit inclusive. MUST BE Production Road car
Tuning: No Forced Induction unless factory spec, No Nitrous and wheels no more than 1 inch upsize. (If interest is expressed would like to propose a limit on Rear camber and toe on Solid axle cars)

Now, this is where I say it's inspired. FC trans includes a 5th gear and you will be allowed to utilize it. Most of these cars IRL were not originally offered with 5 speed gearboxs.
 
Well, off hand I know the AAR Cuda, GT350(R), both 69 Camaros the Mach 1 Mustang, Corvette C2 and the C3 are permitted Pretty much as long as it's 1980 and older with 6000 or less cc in displacement and meets the 500pp requirement it's legal. after that it's the tuners discretion to check aspiration and figure if they're allowed to add to that. Trans Am ran cars from around the world most notably in the <2.0l class they liked the Alfa's and Datsuns.

If it says Concept, Prototype, Racer or anything of the like it's ineligible.
 
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DaBomm4
I would suggest looking back at the first FITT GT6 challenge for any OP cars. Otherwise it sounds interesting. :)
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Well, The intent is not to have an all american lineup. I'd live to see classic Alfa's and Datsun era cars squaring up. If this comes to fruition I'd be very hard pressed not to run a KPGC10 or S30 tuned to spec. I mean IRL they ran cars from allover the world, granted they did run 2 classes (<2.0 litre and 2.0> litre).

I don't want this to end up being an American Muscle challenge. In reality I would love to see a Z28 running neck and neck with an S30 Z.

Edit: Z28 being mentioned, I would like to figure out why It has such an advantage over other cars in it's era as noted in the American classics challenge mentioned by @DaBomm4.
 
fbccars924
Well, The intent is not to have an all american lineup. I'd live to see classic Alfa's and Datsun era cars squaring up. If this comes to fruition I'd be very hard pressed not to run a KPGC10 or S30 tuned to spec. I mean IRL they ran cars from allover the world, granted they did run 2 classes (<2.0 litre and 2.0> litre).

I don't want this to end up being an American Muscle challenge. In reality I would love to see a Z28 running neck and neck with an S30 Z.

Edit: Z28 being mentioned, I would like to figure out why It has such an advantage over other cars in it's era as noted in the American classics challenge mentioned by @DaBomm4.
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LOADS of PD LOVE. Mach 1 also has an advantage of properly tuned, both seem to have been given extra grip compared to the others. I did testing in my garage if you want to have a peek. Keep in mind, I'm a Chevy guy and they we're my tunes. Tried not to be biased as much as possible, but the Z28 is untouchable for the most part.
 
fbccars924
Well, The intent is not to have an all american lineup. I'd live to see classic Alfa's and Datsun era cars squaring up. If this comes to fruition I'd be very hard pressed not to run a KPGC10 or S30 tuned to spec. I mean IRL they ran cars from allover the world, granted they did run 2 classes (<2.0 litre and 2.0> litre).

I don't want this to end up being an American Muscle challenge. In reality I would love to see a Z28 running neck and neck with an S30 Z.

Edit: Z28 being mentioned, I would like to figure out why It has such an advantage over other cars in it's era as noted in the American classics challenge mentioned by @DaBomm4.
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I totally agree and like the idea of multi-continental challenge, and like @Bowtie-muscle stated, the PD love is too great on some cars unless you did a split challenge.
 
fbccars924
After playing with a Shelby GT350 I would like to pitch the idea of a Trans Am inspired 500pp challenge(no I won't be entering said Shelby) but rules as follows.

Track: Apricot Hill(rumored to be based off a Shut down Trans Am track in Iowa) or Laguna Seca
PP: 500
Tires: SS or lower
Year: <1980
Car Limitation: <6.0l or 6000cc upper limit inclusive. MUST BE Production Road car
Tuning: No Forced Induction unless factory spec, No Nitrous and wheels no more than 1 inch upsize. (If interest is expressed would like to propose a limit on Rear camber and toe on Solid axle cars)

Now, this is where I say it's inspired. FC trans includes a 5th gear and you will be allowed to utilize it. Most of these cars IRL were not originally offered with 5 speed gearboxs.
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Explain the tuning rules again?
If its got a stock turbo is the turbo allowed to be upgraded? i.e. Low/Mid/High RPM upgrade
*Wheel upsizing has no known effect on performance
What limitations would there be on Toe/Camber (and why)?
*Not sure live axles are modelled in GT6 to begin with, certainly once you fit custom suspension it acts as if its running coil-overs

fbccars924
Hmmm, gonna have to look into this more. Stock for Stock of course. Or would anyone oppose opening up the Displacement up to 6500cc or 6.5 litre so we make the Nova, Elco and a few others legal cause it is Ironic to me that the Trans Am is ineligible for the "Trans Am" challenge lol.
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Go have a look at the very first GT6 FITT event, that was all american muscle and there was certain a divide between performance, will give you a much clearer idea of which cars will be a match for one another
 
Ok, you got the turbo tuning Idea right, if it isn't turbo or SC from factory it is ineligible for turbo or SC upgrades. i.e. Putting an SC on the GT350 is not allowed but a BMW 2002 can receive a turbo upgrade within the 500pp range.

I really don't see the turbo being the issue as there are only 2 cars eligible with turbos factory. The main purpose is the SC.

As for Live axle's I know they aren't modeled properly after suspension is modified and in reality that rule is only hinted at and would only be implemented if the other tuners were game for it. It would simply mean on Live axle cars like the GT350 and Z28 toe and camber would be non tunable setting like IRL

And finally, on the note of upsizing that is purely for the SCCA vintage racing rule book. IRL wheels were only permitted to be 1 size up from factory in height and width(if tire width was narrow enough to raise safety concerns.
 
Well, I have been playing with the GT350 and GT350R for quite awhile now, and when I get too fustrated with it I go on line and find anything I can about these cars being raced and set up for racing....and have discovered this...the PD got it totally wrong. The "game car" lifts the inside rear just like "stock" Mustangs. The front suspension was modified by Shelby to make this problem go away, and it did. (lowering front control arms, different rear spring mounting and stiffening, etc.) The only way I have been able to ever start to make this car preform properly is messing with the rear toe. Just fruit for thought.
 
@fbccars924, I would suggest making a general list of the cars you think would work for the challenge and then gather a small group of testers in a PM that would follow these general guidelines that @DolHaus and I used when I requested some testing aid for my challenge idea.
DolHaus
The aim of this group is to act as a consultancy for event organisers to aid with PP and performance balancing for upcoming events. Our task is to take the cars out and test them and report back with our times so that the event organisers can judge whether the performance is balanced enough.


Testing procedure:

Testing to be done under standard FITT rules unless otherwise stated (ABS 1, TCS/SRF 0, Grip set to Real)

Drivers must familiarise themselves with cars and track before submitting testing - Please practice until acceptable consistency is achieved (self defined)

PP/Specs must be met

Tuning to be kept to a bare minimum - Camber and toe should be removed, transmission max speed adjustments to fit track (must be a fixed value for all cars -ie. 162mph), light LSD tuning (must be constant for all cars - ie. 10/12/10)
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As I said before, this sounds like it really could be a fun event to participate in. 👍
 
Yeah, I think that can be done. I will put together a list of cars that would be eligible and competitive. that being said anyone willing and able to help put this together please PM me and we can discuss details.
 
fbccars924
Ok, you got the turbo tuning Idea right, if it isn't turbo or SC from factory it is ineligible for turbo or SC upgrades. i.e. Putting an SC on the GT350 is not allowed but a BMW 2002 can receive a turbo upgrade within the 500pp range.

I really don't see the turbo being the issue as there are only 2 cars eligible with turbos factory. The main purpose is the SC.

As for Live axle's I know they aren't modeled properly after suspension is modified and in reality that rule is only hinted at and would only be implemented if the other tuners were game for it. It would simply mean on Live axle cars like the GT350 and Z28 toe and camber would be non tunable setting like IRL

And finally, on the note of upsizing that is purely for the SCCA vintage racing rule book. IRL wheels were only permitted to be 1 size up from factory in height and width(if tire width was narrow enough to raise safety concerns.
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Ok fair enough on the turbo (I think some Japanese cars of the era run turbos as well or are there region rules?)

Forcing certain cars to run stock toe and camber on the rear could be a fairly crippling handicap being that everything runs way too much toe in on the rear (kills rotation) and any camber only really reduces grip which is never great for a muscle car. However if used to handicap some slightly faster cars that might work perhaps?

Leaving wheels stock size is usually the best course of action, saves a few potential headaches down the road and means testers don't have to spend time and credits on something that may or may not have a tangible effect. You can always slap them on for your photos if you're trying to achieve a certain look
 
DolHaus
Ok fair enough on the turbo (I think some Japanese cars of the era run turbos as well or are there region rules?)
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I used the Search function provided and the only cars it showed were the 2002 Turbo, Renault R5 Turbo and the Mitsubishi CZ3(not eligible as it is not <1980, why it pops up, idk) No region specific rules.

DolHaus
Forcing certain cars to run stock toe and camber on the rear could be a fairly crippling handicap being that everything runs way too much toe in on the rear (kills rotation) and any camber only really reduces grip which is never great for a muscle car. However if used to handicap some slightly faster cars that might work perhaps?
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The Toe/camber rule can be dropped, wasn't a big factor. Now, in the GT350( I may reference this car a bit given it is technically eligible but not being entered per code of good sportsmanship) I put both to 0 in the rear and was able to tune around it. But this is just on my GT350 Others may not do so well.

DolHaus
Leaving wheels stock size is usually the best course of action, saves a few potential headaches down the road and means testers don't have to spend time and credits on something that may or may not have a tangible effect. You can always slap them on for your photos if you're trying to achieve a certain look
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Stock size it is then. As for pictures I generally don't post them.
 
fbccars924
The Question raised is should we penalize these cars or ban them all together?

I would like to see an even playing field but in the same hand I would like to keep these in the running.
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PD Ghosts need lots attention for challenges. If one gets through it will win no questions asked.
The only way to actually handicap the PDG's is too fully tune the entire field, and adjust PP, for cars until they are with in a hundredth of each other.
 
Otaliema
PD Ghosts need lots attention for challenges. If one gets through it will win no questions asked.
The only way to actually handicap the PDG's is too fully tune the entire field, and adjust PP, for cars until they are with in a hundredth of each other.
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You also need someone who can drive at the upper limit consistently, just because the times are similar in one drivers hands doesn't necessary mean the cars are balanced.
 
DolHaus
To be honest I wouldn't expect any help, the dog is dying
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Challenges held after mid November have a tough time getting testers. it's just what happens at this time of the year. I can tell you the 4 day difference from when we were talking in here to when the Toge challenge posted made a serious difference for me personally, kept me out of group 2 for tuning and will limit my testing time to group 2 only.
 

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