FITT-Hot Hatch Tuning Challenge - Final Results are in!

Pete05

Premium
6,752
Australia
Melbourne, Australia
Thank you for your review, its becoming apparent that I should have set the trans a little bit longer lol
Either the final drive ratio a little lower or 4th - 6th gears a bit longer. The run towards Paddock Hill bend & down the hill to Hawthorn is where the car suffered the most. Here it was past the peak power & just making more noise for not much acceleration.
 
6,975
England
Exeter
morans1980
FITT HOT HATCH RESULTS

The results are in guys :). All testing performed on a DS3 with Manual transmission, ABS 1 and all other driving aids switched off, Time Trial in Arcade mode with Real grip setting. Gear changes were made at peak power figure.

Results listed as fastest to slowest.


@shaunm80 Mini Cooper S
1:38:542 DC 9.5
The most fun in the class. Stable & predictable with good rotation encouraging you to push harder. 6th gear was a little short & the car hit an imaginary wall at 6000rpm hurting top speed. Very impressed & now a resident in my garage as a JCW replica :D

Congratulations to all that took part :cheers:

Many thanks for the testing. Again, an excellent time which I didn't expect to see. I hope the little Mini remains happy in your garage for a long time to come. :)
 
1,337
England
England
woodski427
Yeah sorry about that Woodski. Whenever I tried bravery under brakes or to attack the entry phase a bit more, it had a bad effect on the exit. Fast in = slow out.

No need to apologise my friend!

Yes, anything other than early brakes can leave you wide with little recourse I'm afraid.
 
3,865
England
Saltash
Dolhaus
Either the final drive ratio a little lower or 4th - 6th gears a bit longer. The run towards Paddock Hill bend & down the hill to Hawthorn is where the car suffered the most. Here it was past the peak power & just making more noise for not much acceleration.
Yeah I know, only did about 20 laps in the thing as I was short on time, didn't really have time to sort out the trans properly
 
506
United Kingdom
uk
bulletproofbrian
@backnfourth @Bowtie-muscle @jules283 @Pete05 Great work testing guys! Thanks for the feedback. My MiTo tune seems to be more successful than my Ibiza. But i`ve worked out why testers are having a hard time with the back end of it. I`ve gone through replay data and i`m not giving the break pedal the full beans due to the industrial packing foam i have stuffed behind it to give the pedal some feel! :) I now realize i should have taken this into consideration before submitting my tunes!! :banghead:

Thanks again guys!!
BW
 
96
United States
United States
backslashnfourth
Thanks testers! Fantastic job with those hot hatches!

@Bowtie-muscle Thanks for testing and running a great event as well :cheers:. Yeah I tune the way I drive and I can't help but prefer understeer to oversteer so all the typical FWD issues are still going to be there, just the challenge of taming them.
(On a side note I've noticed a big difference between other testers reviews and my own thoughts and times with @oppositelock 's clio. I'm going to go back and make sure I had all the settings right and give it some more laps just to make sure I didn't mess something up. Could I edit my results then? I'll double check everyone's setup any user input errors just to be consistent)

@Otaliema Thanks for the comments. It took me a while even to get my Golf around the track quicker. For all the tunes, I bet if I could spend a solid hour learning and dissecting each turn and the best lines then the lap times would drop a fair bit. Also if I could drive manual transmission with any consistency:banghead:

@Pete05 Awesome driving! I'll take a look at the transmission again to see if I can get the best out of the Golf.....setting up the transmission is by far the most confusing thing for me:confused::confused:

The 1st tester who figured out about the throttle rotation :D As I said, the car is somewhat like an advanced learning car :P For entry and mid corner, the car requires trail braking and careful planning in picking the best line. When I drive the car, I would brake as late as possible, full brake for a few moment, then modulate smoothly to avoid lockups while turning in, then hold on the throttle about half way or more, there's a sweet spot when LSD is about to kick in. Hold that steady and gradually reaching full throttle from mid corner :D That's what addicting to me :P

I remembered the issues I had with your BMW Concept 1 series and also had recently driven your excellent Honda Fit and knew I had to stay on that gas as much as possible to get through the turns best. It is a challenge but you're right it is very rewarding when you hit it just right. I've been learning a whole lot from your LSD setups and tunes in general that have been helping me diagnose and fix issues with my own tunes so thanks a bunch!👍👍
 

Pete05

Premium
6,752
Australia
Melbourne, Australia
Thanks testers! Fantastic job with those hot hatches!

@Bowtie-muscle Thanks for testing and running a great event as well :cheers:. Yeah I tune the way I drive and I can't help but prefer understeer to oversteer so all the typical FWD issues are still going to be there, just the challenge of taming them.
(On a side note I've noticed a big difference between other testers reviews and my own thoughts and times with @oppositelock 's clio. I'm going to go back and make sure I had all the settings right and give it some more laps just to make sure I didn't mess something up. Could I edit my results then? I'll double check everyone's setup any user input errors just to be consistent)

@Otaliema Thanks for the comments. It took me a while even to get my Golf around the track quicker. For all the tunes, I bet if I could spend a solid hour learning and dissecting each turn and the best lines then the lap times would drop a fair bit. Also if I could drive manual transmission with any consistency:banghead:

@Pete05 Awesome driving! I'll take a look at the transmission again to see if I can get the best out of the Golf.....setting up the transmission is by far the most confusing thing for me:confused::confused:



I remembered the issues I had with your BMW Concept 1 series and also had recently driven your excellent Honda Fit and knew I had to stay on that gas as much as possible to get through the turns best. It is a challenge but you're right it is very rewarding when you hit it just right. I've been learning a whole lot from your LSD setups and tunes in general that have been helping me diagnose and fix issues with my own tunes so thanks a bunch!👍👍
If you want some help with the transmission, I'm more than happy to offer a few tips or advice :)
Send me a PM if you like :cheers:
 
864
United States
NorCal
oppositelock27
@backnfourth

I think it's using automatic that's killing my tune for you. I tried it myself with auto, and it was always banging the rev limiter out of slow corners and hunting for the right gear off throttle. Seems like the combination of close, short gearing doesn't work well unless you can time the shifts yourself.
 

Pete05

Premium
6,752
Australia
Melbourne, Australia
Your welcome. I had fun & learnt a bit at the same time.
I couldn't tune a gong when it comes to suspension & diffs but have been playing around with gear ratios since GT1 when I had all the Touring Cars.
 

Pete05

Premium
6,752
Australia
Melbourne, Australia
@backnfourth

I think it's using automatic that's killing my tune for you. I tried it myself with auto, and it was always banging the rev limiter out of slow corners and hunting for the right gear off throttle. Seems like the combination of close, short gearing doesn't work well unless you can time the shifts yourself.
Automatic will do damage to any lap time, on any track if the engine doesn't want to rev to the redline or you want to use the torque of an engine by shifting early to ease wheelspin.
I race socially with a mate that always uses Automatic. In something like a Honda VTEC that lives to rev, that's not a problem.
Put him in a car that needs to shift well before the redline & he suffers. BMW 120d is a perfect example.
 
3,998
United States
New Jersey
crash27wwjd
@backnfourth , if you think there may have been an error I would suggest retesting. If you find a difference, let me know, I believe updating and changing scoring would be the right thing to do. Will check with @Motor City Hami and @DigitalBaka to be sure. My Spec Miata was retested and laptime updated.

As for running a great challenge, I will leave that opinion to all the participants to decide as I'm not one to pat myself on the back. Thank you for the kind words, hope you enjoyed as much as I have.
 

Pete05

Premium
6,752
Australia
Melbourne, Australia
@backnfourth , if you think there may have been an error I would suggest retesting. If you find a difference, let me know, I believe updating and changing scoring would be the right thing to do. Will check with @Motor City Hami and @DigitalBaka to be sure. My Spec Miata was retested and laptime updated.

As for running a great challenge, I will leave that opinion to all the participants to decide as I'm not one to pat myself on the back. Thank you for the kind words, hope you enjoyed as much as I have.
You get 👍👍 & a pat on the back from me brother. Job well done :D
 
96
United States
United States
backslashnfourth
@Bowtie-muscle @Motor City Hami
So I did mess up oppositelock's set up.:banghead: I screwed up the final gear on the transmission and the toe's were flipped.:banghead: I went back and checked if I screwed up anyone else's set up. There was one other mistake on the suspension for @Otaliema . I had 4.86 on his front spring instead of 4.85. I don't think I need to retest that one, I did get the fastest time with it and that mistake likely had no affect on the tune. I can if anyone wants me to.
As far as driving automatic and getting the transmission stuttering changing gears I noticed this most with oppositelock's tune. I'm going to say it was driver error/running out of patience at the end of a testing session and not adjusting my driving to the tune.
I put changes in bold italic because I don't know how to do colors (doh!). I'll change my testing results post as well.

@oppositelock
Fast Lap: 1:38.887 1:37.886
DC: 6.5 8.5
Comments: Overall rotation felt very good in all phases of turning. Entry and speed through low speed turns was very good. Transmission would consistently stutter when trying to change gears mostly exiting low speed turns. Easing onto throttle instead of slamming it out of turns greatly improved how the transmission responded I think it was too much weight shift that would sometimes make rotation entering a turn feel inconsistent. Felt like there was a little too much body roll/weight shift that affected changes in direction at times. I felt like a very good/comfortable amount of rotation is in the tune, it just didn't feel tied together.

Sorry everybody!
 
3,998
United States
New Jersey
crash27wwjd
@Bowtie-muscle @Motor City Hami
So I did mess up oppositelock's set up.:banghead: I screwed up the final gear on the transmission and the toe's were flipped.:banghead: I went back and checked if I screwed up anyone else's set up. There was one other mistake on the suspension for @Otaliema . I had 4.86 on his front spring instead of 4.85. I don't think I need to retest that one, I did get the fastest time with it and that mistake likely had no affect on the tune. I can if anyone wants me to.
As far as driving automatic and getting the transmission stuttering changing gears I noticed this most with oppositelock's tune. I'm going to say it was driver error/running out of patience at the end of a testing session and not adjusting my driving to the tune.
I put changes in bold italic because I don't know how to do colors (doh!). I'll change my testing results post as well.

@oppositelock
Fast Lap: 1:38.887 1:37.886
DC: 6.5 8.5
Comments: Overall rotation felt very good in all phases of turning. Entry and speed through low speed turns was very good. Transmission would consistently stutter when trying to change gears mostly exiting low speed turns. Easing onto throttle instead of slamming it out of turns greatly improved how the transmission responded I think it was too much weight shift that would sometimes make rotation entering a turn feel inconsistent. Felt like there was a little too much body roll/weight shift that affected changes in direction at times. I felt like a very good/comfortable amount of rotation is in the tune, it just didn't feel tied together.

Sorry everybody!


Thank you sir! for catching and retesting. We all make mistakes so don't worry about it.

P.S.: He better not pass me in the standings now:dopey::dopey:*joking of course.:lol::lol:
 
319
United Kingdom
Leicester
biffa3
Testing complete for Pro class.

Four good cars here, the last two especially. As always, I think the issue with these fast FF's is that they don't always go well with button mashers. Wheel users will provide much more competetive times for the higher LSD settings. Thanks to the tuners who decided to give this one a go.

All cars tested for 10 minutes (7 complete laps), using DS3 (pad). All aids off except ABS 1 and driving line, using automatic transmission.

@Bowtie-muscle
Time - 1:33:475
DC - 7
1st time driving this car, and man is it weird. Glued to the road one minute, then an almost 4 wheel drift the next. A fun car to drive though.

@jules283
Time - 1:33:266
DC - 7
A bit more stable thorugh the corners. A bit of a tyre shredder though. Keep off the kerbs unless you want some 2 wheeled action.

@Motor City Hami
Time - 1:32:554
DC - 10
Good turn in, good rotation. A lot less wheelspin which shows in the laptime. Good effort. Bravo sir.

@Otaliema
Time - 1:32:780
DC - 9
Not much to choose between these last 2. Slightly more wheelspin and understeer on exit. Good turn in and rotation. Can brake a bit later than the others.
 
4,803
United States
Dearborn, MI
MotorCtyHamilton
@Motor City Hami
Time - 1:32:554
DC - 10
Good turn in, good rotation. A lot less wheelspin which shows in the laptime. Good effort. Bravo sir.

100% due to the transmission and LSD settings. Notice 2nd gear. By moving the Final Gear all the way right, then Top Speed all the way left, then 2nd gear all the way left, this is the tallest I could make 2nd gear. This helped to reduce wheel spin, but I could not fully eliminate it with this car.

Thank you for testing.
 
5,489
United States
mid west USA
Otaliema
Testing complete for Pro class.

@Otaliema
Time - 1:32:780
DC - 9
Not much to choose between these last 2. Slightly more wheelspin and understeer on exit. Good turn in and rotation. Can brake a bit later than the others.

I did my best to reduce the wheel spin on this car add you saw with the transmission build long first and second, maybe I made 3rd to short.Thank you for the feedback
 
252
United Kingdom
UK
jules283
My Pro-spec class results. Four-tenths of a second between them!


Bowtie-muscle
1.31.499 DC:7

A fun car this one! Lots of oversteer available, especially when trail braking. Enough to initiate a easily corrected spin. I adjusted to this pretty quickly though! My only other problem was that it seemed to squat down so heavily at the rear under power that I lost traction at the front, forcing me back off slightly, and hurting lap time. I felt braking into chicane to be weak? But my abiding memory of this tune will be trail braking into the right-hand turn leading directly onto the back straight... awesome!

jules283 1.31.035 DC:9
I apologize for going quickest and awarding highest DC to this tune, but it is the way I felt about car handling which obviously suited my driving style. Sorry, please remove my results if a problem.

Motor City Hami 1.31.141 DC:8
My first lap in this car was 1.31.551, and I thought "Wow, this is gonna be a beast!". I only improved by four tenths though, which was a surprise.
A precise front end, low rear downforce and low rear ride height made for plenty of rotation. I couldn't always control this rotation exactly as I wished though and the heavy feeling rear made for occasional understeer, which delayed application of full power. I really enjoyed the drive and think there is a really fast time lurking within this car!

Otaliema 1.31.227 DC:8
A quick car with good turn-in followed by extra assistance from a weighty/lowered rear, depending on how hard I braked. This weighty rear did seem to create some exit understeer, and I felt that the front and rear of car were sometimes fighting each other, especially on the final turn. These characteristics hurt my consistency. At one point I was five tenths up on my best lap and then lost it all at the chicane! As with the Motor City Hami car, I felt that with a different driver this car could really fly!


Note: I don't feel great reviewing my own car, so I may bow out of testing in my class in future. But with my cars in two classes and a reluctance to test so many hot-hatches, what do I do?
 

Pete05

Premium
6,752
Australia
Melbourne, Australia
My Pro-spec class results. Four-tenths of a second between them!

Bowtie-muscle 1.31.499 DC:7
A fun car this one! Lots of oversteer available, especially when trail braking. Enough to initiate a easily corrected spin. I adjusted to this pretty quickly though! My only other problem was that it seemed to squat down so heavily at the rear under power that I lost traction at the front, forcing me back off slightly, and hurting lap time. I felt braking into chicane to be weak? But my abiding memory of this tune will be trail braking into the right-hand turn leading directly onto the back straight... awesome!

jules283 1.31.035 DC:9
I apologize for going quickest and awarding highest DC to this tune, but it is the way I felt about car handling which obviously suited my driving style. Sorry, please remove my results if a problem.

Motor City Hami 1.31.141 DC:8
My first lap in this car was 1.31.551, and I thought "Wow, this is gonna be a beast!". I only improved by four tenths though, which was a surprise.
A precise front end, low rear downforce and low rear ride height made for plenty of rotation. I couldn't always control this rotation exactly as I wished though and the heavy feeling rear made for occasional understeer, which delayed application of full power. I really enjoyed the drive and think there is a really fast time lurking within this car!

Otaliema 1.31.227 DC:8
A quick car with good turn-in followed by extra assistance from a weighty/lowered rear, depending on how hard I braked. This weighty rear did seem to create some exit understeer, and I felt that the front and rear of car were sometimes fighting each other, especially on the final turn. These characteristics hurt my consistency. At one point I was five tenths up on my best lap and then lost it all at the chicane! As with the Motor City Hami car, I felt that with a different driver this car could really fly!


Note: I don't feel great reviewing my own car, so I may bow out of testing in my class in future. But with my cars in two classes and a reluctance to test so many hot-hatches, what do I do?
Jules you're not the first to be fastest in your own tune and more than likely won't be the last either.
 
96
United States
United States
backslashnfourth
Note: I don't feel great reviewing my own car, so I may bow out of testing in my class in future. But with my cars in two classes and a reluctance to test so many hot-hatches, what do I do?

I feel the same way at times. This time around when I finished tuning and submitted my car there was probably a week where I didn't touch it until I tested my class. Sometimes when I drive a tune after leaving it for a while I'll realize it wasn't what I thought it was and sometimes it is just the way I like it, because I tune cars to fit the way I drive. I think it is just the way it is that if you tuned it well then come back to drive it a little while later that you know it well and are going to be fast.
 
3,998
United States
New Jersey
crash27wwjd
@jules283 Don't worry about your scoring, you should obviously be more comfortable in your own tune, you know it the best. Plus, lap times with the others wasn't far off and you didn't give yourself a big advantage. Testing my own car is just weird and I did it last in the hatch series and will do the same for this one. That way I will be further removed from my own tune and will get as non-biased as possible. Look at what backnfourth said, in testing Hatches, he did really well in his own tune and is not looking to bow out. It is what it is, be proud of your tune if that is truly how you feel. 2 tenths between you, Hami and Otaliema is close. My tune however..............disaster:ouch: