FITT Old Vs. New Hatchback Challenge

Which pair of cars is the best looking of the bunch?

  • Fiat 500 F '65 and 500 1.2 8V Lounge SS '08

    Votes: 14 23.0%

  • Ford Focus ST170 '03 and ST '13

    Votes: 12 19.7%

  • Honda Civic 1500 3 door 25i '83 and Civic Type R (EP) '04

    Votes: 6 9.8%

  • Honda CRX SiR '90 and CR-Z @ '10

    Votes: 5 8.2%

  • Honda Life Step Van '72 and Odyssey '03

    Votes: 3 4.9%

  • Mini Cooper 1.3i '98 and Cooper S '11

    Votes: 6 9.8%

  • Peugeot 206 S16 '99 and 207 GTi '07

    Votes: 5 8.2%

  • VW Golf I Gti '76 and Golf Gti '05

    Votes: 10 16.4%
  • Total voters
    61
Teaser, now you know what I have picked for this.. :)
Few laps of testing handling, hot lapping left for testers.
 
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Brewguy44
All I know is the Chaparral 2X VGT does. I ran it at The 24 mins of LeMans Race and every two laps you have to pit. It has a battery gauge instead of a fuel gauge. You see it go down like a fuel gauge.
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Thats cool then, I was giving the CR-Z '10 a spin and noticed the power gauge was probably going to be all out of juice within 4-6 laps 👍
 
OdeFinn
Teaser, now you know what I have picked for this.. :)
Few laps of testing handling, hot lapping left for testers.
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It's saying the video is private and won't let me view it. That is a teaser!:lol:
Could be me though...I'm still playing catch up with all this technology hoo-ha.
 
shaunm80
It is a sad day in Bournemouth today. The Mini Cooper just got scrapped from this challenge. Whilst the new version is really good around Monaco, the older brother is far to slow.. The Mini Cooper S '11 will have to wait for another challenge I think. Back to the drawing board for me. :(
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The old '98 Mini just isn't interested in revving to the redline is it :grumpy:
 
shaunm80
It is a sad day in Bournemouth today. The Mini Cooper just got scrapped from this challenge. Whilst the new version is really good around Monaco, the older brother is far to slow.. The Mini Cooper S '11 will have to wait for another challenge I think. Back to the drawing board for me. :(
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Yeah I hoped the original mini would be able to keep up but its a good 5 seconds off the pace. Great fun to drive but just doesn't have the speed :(

I think I've found which is the dominant pair now...
 
I was just able to test all cars the last two nights with quick tunes applied. I did find a couple of duds at 400 PP. If we are all talking about the same car, I did have one other run close, but its younger brother is not as quick.

Did anyone find an overdog on the 450 pp side?

Since no tunes have been posted yet, I am considering a few PP changes. it would be nicer to have a mix of cars.
 
Lionheart2113
I told you it wasn't me as a driver!;) Although I do have my cars painted orange which always helps.
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I've still not caught up entirely but I'm in an acceptable range that could be attributed to driver error

Motor City Hami
I was just able to test all cars the last two nights with quick tunes applied. I did find a couple of duds at 400 PP. If we are all talking about the same car, I did have one other run close, but its younger brother is not as quick.

Did anyone find an overdog on the 450 pp side?

Since no tunes have been posted yet, I am considering a few PP changes. it would be nicer to have a mix of cars.
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I haven't noticed an overdog in the 450's but one pair is definitely going to be ahead of the pack, the 400pp is at least 2 seconds faster than its nearest rival and I really don't see the 450pp version dropping that advantage
 
OdeFinn
Like putting lower pp limit to that quick car, easy solution.
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That's what I am thinking, a few PP adjustments. I do not want to take all week, so these may be quick PP adjustments to make the field more equal. We could spend all month trying to make all of them run exactly the same.

How much difference does 25 PP make, plus or minus, on an overdog or underdog?

The old Mini, Fiat and Live Van are not even close to competitive right now. Can these builds go as high as 450PP?
 
Motor City Hami
That's what I am thinking, a few PP adjustments. I do not want to take all week, so these may be quick PP adjustments to make the field more equal. We could spend all month trying to make all of them run exactly the same.

How much difference does 25 PP make, plus or minus, on an overdog or underdog?

The old Mini, Fiat and Live Van are not even close to competitive right now. Can these builds go as high as 450PP?
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As I've pointed out, the old Mini just isn't interested in revs & as for the Bambino and lifeless van, you'd need a magic wand in your toolbox or a mystical potion in the fuel tank to make them competitive.
What's that saying about shining a turd...
 
I think the age gaps are the problem, the more modern the cars the faster they'll be and the older they are the slower they get (the mini may say '98 but its stuck in the 60's)

There are a few pairs that are competitive against one another (mini vs. 500c / honda vs. honda) but the gap across the field is massive. I don't want to say too much as I don't want to spoil it
 
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What a lovely day today, starts with being a little cloudy, a little drizzle, then a call from the mechanic. $1700 for fixing my engine... It's the only vehicle I have right now so gotta get it fixed... Wheeeee :banghead:


Looks like I got some free time to work on my tunes, one almost done unless I am a victim of an overdog.
 
DaBomm4
What a lovely day today, starts with being a little cloudy, a little drizzle, then a call from the mechanic. $1700 for fixing my engine... It's the only vehicle I have right now so gotta get it fixed... Wheeeee :banghead:


Looks like I got some free time to work on my tunes, one almost done unless I am a victim of an overdog.
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That bites.
 
I sadly have not had a chance to dive into the cars yet. But 25Pp is normally good for about half a second to a second depending on the car. Tire upgrades are worth about two to four seconds depending, I think a cross over to a new type of tire is a larger jump.
 
Motor City Hami
Here is the fix for Mini http://www.mygranturismo.net/car_sheet.php?id=558

And this might be the fix for the CRX http://www.mygranturismo.net/car_sheet.php?id=250

The Life Van might need helped by having a younger brother with 475PP?
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Your fix, if I am reading this right, is for a Mini One '02 car instead of the 1.3 '98 version? I haven't tested this car out as yet at the PP settings but the car may still be underpowered. Mini One '02 (from my garage) 350PP with 110 BHP. The difference between this and the Cooper '02 is very negligible and I would say the fairer of the two cars that go together are the Mini Cooper '02 and Mini Cooper S '11.

For addition information, I have a Mini Cooper '02 which at 350PP has 112BHP. If this car was taken to 400PP, it would be about equal to the other cars at the top end of the PP scale. You wouldn't need to alter the PP scale to make this particular car competitive for the old car.

Of course, this is my opinion and I leave the final decision on this up to the host @Motor City Hami
 
A '02 Mini at 400pp is a pretty fast 400 car. Not quite '02 Civic EP fast, but up there. It'd be like using a '93 (or whatever) Civic instead of the '83 Civic. '93 Civic and '76 Golf are almost identical in lap times at 400. From my experience, anyways. I love 400s and we drive them a lot, and some are clearly faster than others.

Well, I just talked myself into turning on the Playstee.
 
Sorry for the needed adjustments. The truth is that I probably posted this a few days too soon. I don't want this to be a one horse race so I do want to make one round of adjustments. If you want to share any testing that you have done or opinions, please feel free to PM me, as some already have done.

For me, all of the 450 PP cars are similar enough. I have not tested the Van yet but will tonight.

As for the 400 PP cars, the age difference seems to kill the pre-80's performance. The Mini must be changed. I think the Mini One will be competitive with the '83 Civic, '90 CRX and Peugeot 206.

The Focus ST170 may need some restrictions. It's just oddly fast. We already did a FITT competition using the 2013 Focus ST, so maybe we should drop the Ford's from this competition? 2003 is the newest of the 400 PP cars. Community feedback on this set would be much appreciated. Dropping this pair would really even things up.

The VW Golf '76 handles well, but is a bit off from the other 400 PPers. Maybe this car at 425 PP would even that set up? Thoughts?

The FIAT 500 '65 and the Honda Life Step Van 72 are just hopeless. Maybe the Clueless rule for these should be something crazy like racing soft tires? Who knows. I need to think more about these two tonight.

So, this is where my head is at right now:
Fiat 500 F '65 - a PP increase and sport soft tires
Focus ST170 '03 - banned, out of the competition
Civic 1500 '83 - 400 PP as is
CRX SiR '90 - 400 PP as is
Honda Life Step Van '72 - a PP increase and sport soft tires
Mini Cooper '98 - replace with Mini One '02
Peugeot 206 '99 - 400 PP as is
VW Golf '76 - a PP increase to 420 or 425

Feedback from the community please.

Thanks.
 
Motor City Hami
Sorry for the needed adjustments. The truth is that I probably posted this a few days too soon. I don't want this to be a one horse race so I do want to make one round of adjustments. If you want to share any testing that you have done or opinions, please feel free to PM me, as some already have done.

For me, all of the 450 PP cars are similar enough. I have not tested the Van yet but will tonight.

As for the 400 PP cars, the age difference seems to kill the pre-80's performance. The Mini must be changed. I think the Mini One will be competitive with the '83 Civic, '90 CRX and Peugeot 206.

The Focus ST170 may need some restrictions. It's just oddly fast. We already did a FITT competition using the 2013 Focus ST, so maybe we should drop the Ford's from this competition? 2003 is the newest of the 400 PP cars. Community feedback on this set would be much appreciated. Dropping this pair would really even things up.

The VW Golf '76 handles well, but is a bit off from the other 400 PPers. Maybe this car at 425 PP would even that set up? Thoughts?

The FIAT 500 '65 and the Honda Life Step Van 72 are just hopeless. Maybe the Clueless rule for these should be something crazy like racing soft tires? Who knows. I need to think more about these two tonight.

So, this is where my head is at right now:
Fiat 500 F '65 - a PP increase and sport soft tires
Focus ST170 '03 - banned, out of the competition
Civic 1500 '83 - 400 PP as is
CRX SiR '90 - 400 PP as is
Honda Life Step Van '72 - a PP increase and sport soft tires
Mini Cooper '98 - replace with Mini One '02
Peugeot 206 '99 - 400 PP as is
VW Golf '76 - a PP increase to 420 or 425

Feedback from the community please.

Thanks.
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Firstly, if you ban the Ford ST170, that will make the field a bit more even, however, it would be even if you set the PP limit at 375PP? or 380PP. Not sure how you or anyone else taking part feels about that. If these cars are removed, I have lost my backup cars.

I can understand the thinking behind the PP increases but as @Pete05 has mentioned, the Fiat 500 and Lifeless Van are going to be uncompetitive against their competitors even with SS tyres and a PP increase. Would it be worth removing these cars (pairs) completely too if the older car doesn't work very well

As for PP increases, VW Golf '76 definitely needs a PP increase and I would agree that 425 is about right.

I would prefer to see the Cooper '02 as a replacement but I will go with what you have suggested in the Mini One '02.
 
OdeFinn
Teaser, now you know what I have picked for this.. :)
Few laps of testing handling, hot lapping left for testers.
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Cheers for fixing the video. That is some nice driving with a decent time in that car. I can't remember how my lap in that car looked, but I can bet that there was a lot more smoke, and it wasn't as smooth!:crazy:
 

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