FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[JDMKING13]

Played FM4 demo for a long time, I really can't believe some of you guys had me pumped up for the new physics. I know FM series is a good game everybody loves painting, trading, customizing, but what about the driving? As soon as my bro seen me playing he said why does it look so Arcade and I agree. Then some of you deny the assist like its not there come one guys Its there! If you can't feel it helping you then I don't know what to say. All I want is a real driving experience. Dan listen to your Sim fan's I don't care about the arcade FM fans which I have seen many people claim on here FM being arcade/sim please get rid of this driving assist why have a simulation mode T10. This is why I love GT because in the end the driving is top notch. 👍

 

[MoGoSpeed]

Do what you must TT3AZ.

The game is not for you.

 

[Vaxxtx]

You guys are putting him there(every previous post is someone else implying it, not I), it's kinda scary, but weird at the sametime.
And also weird that your saying he's telling us what to like, as if you read the opening news page, it's says the primary purpose of this content was to appease the online community.

Regardless,


I'm just excited that new content is being provided to me in a game I enjoy.


But you guys are making it weird, almost like yall are insecure.

I am glad GT5 is getting content, even if it is very late in the game.

Just not everyone is as happy and thrilled. There are plenty of people wanting more A Spec, Liveries, and also wheel changes on standard cars. New sounds...good god new sounds would have been awesome. Not everyone was appeased the same as you.

And yeah, people talk about Kaz like he is superman. Read some post, like Lum said people gave him crazy titles. Why? I dont know, but I relate it to Kim Jong Il. He talks about his "vision" and how he doesnt pay attention to other games...when, well obviously he does.

Anyway, bottom line I am glad lots of people are happy, but still understand why lots are not happy.

 

[MoGoSpeed]

^That's understood. But also theirs a fine line between being unhappy and critical, or being appreciative and understanding.

 

[zr1chris]

Played FM4 demo for a long time, I really can't believe some of you guys had me pumped up for the new physics. I know FM series is a good game everybody loves painting, trading, customizing, but what about the driving? As soon as my bro seen me playing he said why does it look so Arcade and I agree. Then some of you deny the assist like its not there come one guys Its there! If you can't feel it helping you then I don't know what to say. All I want is a real driving experience. Dan listen to your Sim fan's I don't care about the arcade FM fans which I have seen many people claim on here FM being arcade/sim please get rid of this driving assist why have a simulation mode T10.

I agree that the sim physics could be better but there is no denying that they are better than FM3. They are improving on it. They are taking a different approach to it than other developers and it may not be perfect right now but it may pay off in the future. It's still a much better sim than Shift, at least imo.

 

[shintastic48]

Nah, I'd rather them just work on GT6 instead so maybe all of the cars can be premiums, fix pixelation issues and give us a better career mode and stop worrying allowing us to get a pic of our avatar with the car or terrible looking standard cockpits for terrible looking standard cars. Just my opinion so please don't thrash me for it. If you enjoy that stuff then good for you but it's not my thing.

Kind of a strange equilibrium this. Quality vs. Quantity. On one hand GT5 has gone with a Quantity look with the 1030 cars in the list. But on the same boat GT5's premium car Quality is higher than that of Forza's. For Forza's case, you could argue that every car is a "premium" is Quality. But, they aren't of the highest quality so it's almost a Quantity view point. Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[zr1chris]

Kind of a strange equilibrium this. Quality vs. Quantity. On one hand GT5 has gone with a Quantity look with the 1030 cars in the list. But on the same boat GT5's premium car Quality is higher than that of Forza's. For Forza's case, you could argue that every car is a "premium" is Quality. But, they aren't of the highest quality so it's almost a Quantity view point. Hopefully that makes sense.

Not really since it was still the highest quality that was possible for them to get at the time. Each car in FM4 is the highest quality that they were able to establish.

 

[Vaxxtx]

^That's understood. But also theirs a fine line between being unhappy and critical, or being appreciative and understanding.

Right...there is. Why would somebody that is unhappy be understanding or appreciative?

If I order a steak medium rare, and wait 2 hours for it come out, and THEN find out its well done, should I just be happy and apprciate that at least I got a piece of meat? No.

People bought into the GT series and expected alot, not just on their own, but how PD hyped it. Then got strung along with racing suits, museum cards, seasonals, and promises that never really took off. They have a right to be critical.

 

[TT3AZ]

^That's understood. But also theirs a fine line between being unhappy and critical, or being appreciative and understanding.

What ever, just because you dont like our arguments, doesnt mean wa are hating, right. And what do you mean the game is not for you? Well, maybe not, since PD didnt give a rats ass about some of its core players. The point is to envolve the game, not get rid of features that was in previous games, right? Whats next, remove all street cars and only add x1, f1 super car? I guess people like you would be happy then, making gt series to a f1 game, only focuse on circuit racing, which is the only type of racing that exists to you right?

 

[MoGoSpeed]

That's the nature of building games for consoles, what's your priorities and how to adjust to the limits.

I for one from what I've seen think Forza's environments are top notch, in depth and dynamics, which I'm enjoying.

 

[shintastic48]

Not really since it was still the highest quality that was possible for them to get at the time. Each car in FM4 is the highest quality that they were able to establish.

I bet they could easily go higher. The question is, will the 360's disc limitations allow it. Probably not. So maybe Turn 10 has chosen the wrong system.

 

[MoGoSpeed]

What ever, just because you dont like our arguments, doesnt mean wa are hating, right. And what do you mean the game is not for you? Well, maybe not, since PD didnt give a rats ass about some of its core players. The point is to envolve the game, not get rid of features that was in previous games, right? Whats next, remove all street cars and only add x1, f1 super car? I guess people like you would be happy then, making gt series to a f1 game, only focuse on circuit racing, which is the only type of racing that exists to you right?

You don't understand game development, I went to the Art Institute of Dallas for a bachelor in Media Arts and Animation/Game Development.

Once you are learned in this perspective, you would not have such strong ignorant opinion of how you think.

 

[TT3AZ]

Kind of a strange equilibrium this. Quality vs. Quantity. On one hand GT5 has gone with a Quantity look with the 1030 cars in the list. But on the same boat GT5's premium car Quality is higher than that of Forza's. For Forza's case, you could argue that every car is a "premium" is Quality. But, they aren't of the highest quality so it's almost a Quantity view point. Hopefully that makes sense.

Well, define quality? Do you think its quality when you cant change the rim size or width on premium cars? Do you thinks its quality that you cant add real life aftermarket body kits to the cars? Do you think the premium interior is quality when the gauges are pretty blurry and overall shaky? Well, i dont think so, besides, the cars dont look nearly as good on the track as in photomode in gt5...

 

[JDMKING13]

I agree that the sim physics could be better but there is no denying that they are better than FM3. They are improving on it. They are taking a different approach to it than other developers and it may not be perfect right now but it may pay off in the future. It's still a much better sim than Shift, at least imo.

Chris I just don't get it man I swear FM series is going in another way and after reading that quote from Dan stating that they will make the game according to their fan base which is more the casual gamer has me disturbed. FM1 is my favorite out of the series man so many good things in that game FM2 was really good because of the physics got better. After that though down hill for me, even this new track it just doesn't flow to me super wide and basically full throttle driving... I'm still buying the game because FM with the customization is very fun but the driving has to step up.

 

[omgitsbees]

I bet they could easily go higher. The question is, will the 360's disc limitations allow it. Probably not. So maybe Turn 10 has chosen the wrong system.

Considering Turn10 is owned by Microsoft, they didn't have a lot say in the matter. Although FM3 and 4 on the PC would be amazing.

 

[shintastic48]

Considering Turn10 is owned by Microsoft, they didn't have a lot say in the matter. Although FM3 and 4 on the PC would be amazing.

Any game on PC would honestly be better. Imagine how good the Lexus LFA from GT5 would look on PC

 

[Vaxxtx]

I bet they could easily go higher. The question is, will the 360's disc limitations allow it. Probably not. So maybe Turn 10 has chosen the wrong system.

I think MS Chose T10, not the other way around.

Also, coming from the PC gaming world, my first console was a PS3 last year. Recent Xbox purchase, and still amazed at how much smoother and visually appealing the same games I played on the PS3 look on the Xbox. I am still going through my collection and moving it over from PS3 to Xbox.

 

[TT3AZ]

You don't understand game development, I went to the Art Institute of Dallas for a bachelor in Media Arts and Animation/Game Development.

Once you are learned in this perspective, you would not have such strong ignorant opinion of how you think.

I know how the market works, how can any body not know, for beeing screwed all over by this so called "sim" developers. Its all about money, they become greedy. How can you else explain that PD waited 10 months to release content, and release it the same time as forza? Well, the answer is that they dont want to loose market shares to turn 10, and the sad part is that not many gt fans admit that. You really think PD released spec 2.0 just to make you "happy", haha you living ina dream world man. If they wanted to make us happy, they would have implemented this stuff way back. I will not thank any developer that releases content, because if we wouldnt buy from them, we wouldnt have seen anything. Thats it. They maybe had a passion for game developing back then, but as sonn as they sell millions, they become fat and happy, and that will be their destruction as well.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Chris I just don't get it man I swear FM series is going in another way and after reading that quote from Dan stating that they will make the game according to their fan base which is more the casual gamer has me disturbed. FM1 is my favorite out of the series man so many good things in that game FM2 was really good because of the physics got better. After that though down hill for me, even this new track it just doesn't flow to me super wide and basically full throttle driving... I'm still buying the game because FM with the customization is very fun but the driving has to step up.

I said this in regards to the demo on another thread.

I am have to say I dont care for the "traffic" either. Feels like an older NFS game. I understand the "challenge", as rolling obstacles, but it disconnects me from the game. Add the fact I find the Alps track very, very, fantasy driven, and it kind of kills the demo for me.

I am looking forward to Hockenhiem, with a proper race. I am just hoping Rivals will be more setup like Autolog. But since its a mode in the demo, I am guessing it wont be much like Autolog .

Once I can paint, and tune my cars, and race through more of the real world tracks, I will be happy again.

 

[JDMKING13]

I bet they could easily go higher. The question is, will the 360's disc limitations allow it. Probably not. So maybe Turn 10 has chosen the wrong system.

They can go higher, Last year people where saying how come FM3 didn't have 16 plus cars. Many people where saying the Xbox is to limited blah blah FM4 same system 16 cars on the track (12 on the demo) get my drift. I don't know unlike many people here I can play both games and enjoy them both, I have wheels for both system also. So there is no hating my problem is T10 gets me all hyped with this new tire system, simulation steering and when I play the game the driving blahhh. I just don't get how people on here are satisfied with this.

 

[prymet1me]

I said this in regards to the demo on another thread.

I am have to say I dont care for the "traffic" either. Feels like an older NFS game. I understand the "challenge", as rolling obstacles, but it disconnects me from the game. Add the fact I find the Alps track very, very, fantasy driven, and it kind of kills the demo for me.

I am looking forward to Hockenhiem, with a proper race. I am just hoping Rivals will be more setup like Autolog. But since its a mode in the demo, I am guessing it wont be much like Autolog .

Once I can paint, and tune my cars, and race through more of the real world tracks, I will be happy again.

You will be happy Tuesday.

 

[MoGoSpeed]

I know how the market works, how can any body not know, for beeing screwed all over by this so called "sim" developers. Its all about money, they become greedy. How can you else explain that PD waited 10 months to release content, and release it the same time as forza? Well, the answer is that they dont want to loose market shares to turn 10, and the sad part is that not many gt fans admit that. You really think PD released spec 2.0 just to make you "happy", haha you living ina dream world man. If they wanted to make us happy, they would have implemented this stuff way back. I will not thank any developer that releases content, because if we wouldnt buy from them, we wouldnt have seen anything. Thats it. They maybe had a passion for game developing back then, but as sonn as they sell millions, they become fat and happy, and that will be their destruction as well.

It's not just the market, but game development also. It's an extremely daunting task, and what I would consider a burn-out job. It's all about crunch time, working after hours no pay. Your basic job with game development, is finding out ways to appease to limitations in all facets, and that applies to the whole pipeline of developing a game.

You still have no idea what you are talking about.

I've already explained previously back to Luminis of the possibilities of how this update came to be. 1st off it wasn't possible at release, you are ridiculous if you think other wise.

 

[zr1chris]

I bet they could easily go higher. The question is, will the 360's disc limitations allow it. Probably not. So maybe Turn 10 has chosen the wrong system.

I don't know how much higher you expect. It's MUCH better than FM3 was. If it is the disks or console is holding them back then with the next xbox due sometime in the near future it shouldn't be a problem for very much longer. It's been my gut feeling that FM5 will be a launch title for the next console. T10 has chosen the right system. Not to say they can't compete directly with PD but it's even easier to compete with other sim-like racers on a console that doesn't have another huge sim-like racer. Also at the time FM1 came out they were still on the original xbox. T10 didn't choose the 360. Microsoft did. T10 can only work with the equipment that's given to them.

Chris I just don't get it man I swear FM series is going in another way and after reading that quote from Dan stating that they will make the game according to their fan base which is more the casual gamer has me disturbed. FM1 is my favorite out of the series man so many good things in that game FM2 was really good because of the physics got better. After that though down hill for me, even this new track it just doesn't flow to me super wide and basically full throttle driving... I'm still buying the game because FM with the customization is very fun but the driving has to step up.

I don't know man. They did make a sim setting in the menus to try and cater to the hardcore fan as-well but like I said before I still think it's a big improvement over any of the past FM's imo. Also like I said before, remember the demo is on a fantasy track. It's not your typical track either. It's extremely high speed and every corner on the track is on some type of embankment.

 

[TT3AZ]

It's not just the market, but game development also. It's an extremely daunting task, and what I would consider a burn-out job. It's all about crunch time, working after hours no pay. Your basic job with game development, is finding out ways to appease to limitations in all facets, and that applies to the whole pipeline of developing a game.

You still have no idea what you are talking about.

I've already explained previously back to Luminis of the possibilities of how this update came to be. 1st off it wasn't possible at release, you are ridiculous if you think other wise.

Well not possible at release, but possible exactly when forza 4 is beein released, hmm, that sounds strange? By the way, many academics might consider you are wrong, because you dont see PD tactics here. Its very common that companies do stuff like this, simply because they dont want to loose customers to its competitors.

 

[Luminis]

@Luminis

That started because of the respect for him in the Japanese community from the beginning, and then further grew with the progression of the man through out the world(although sometimes overboard due to different ideological thinking in the world, but still stands on firm ground).

Does that make it more of a, you know, falsse statement that some view him with a bit too much respect? because, from some people, I do get the feeling that, to them, talking smack about Kaz is blasphemy. Just saying. I've seen people act like someone insulted their mother when not thinking highly of Kaz.

Granted, he's developed some magnificient games, but at the end of the day, I'll judge him for what he's doing, not for what he's done a decade ago. But that's just me.

How about this, "they are actually releasing it", complaining about it taking a year is pretty useless now. Epic (Game dev) would have charged you $40 for this, lets just be happy that they are releasing it. There is a saying that goes "Better late than never", people will moan if nothing was done so something is being done.

Uh, what? Nothing wrong with being happy about receiving stuff, and it's true that it's better to get it late than to not get it at all. But, do you really want to tell me that it's totally cool to have to wait for a year for some rather basic things that, in the opinion of a few people, it seems, should have been in the game on release day?

This. and that other guys comment about game devs coming out with whole games in the time it took GT5 to add this content. I don't think that game devs could put out good games or games of the scale of GT5 in less than a year... Take Fallout for instance. It takes them awhile to make a Fallout game... why? because the scale is just epic.

I just said "games". Not "good games" or "games the GT crowd will like". Just that. Games. And there are games that are released at that rate. And those games contain a bit more than that update GT5 is receiving. Because that scale surely isn't epic, given the timeframe.

^That's understood. But also theirs a fine line between being unhappy and critical, or being appreciative and understanding.

Understanding and appreciative... I can appreciate the fact that features are being added. I can't really understand it took that long, though.

Kind of a strange equilibrium this. Quality vs. Quantity. On one hand GT5 has gone with a Quantity look with the 1030 cars in the list. But on the same boat GT5's premium car Quality is higher than that of Forza's. For Forza's case, you could argue that every car is a "premium" is Quality. But, they aren't of the highest quality so it's almost a Quantity view point. Hopefully that makes sense.

GT5 gives you premiums for quality and standards for quantity. Forza balances both on a somewhat coherent level, in my opinion.

GT5 has the numbers, and the premiums sure are pure quality, but it just does both quality and quantity individually, in my opinion.

But, hey, the standard cars did, at least, get "cockpits" now, right?

I bet they could easily go higher. The question is, will the 360's disc limitations allow it. Probably not. So maybe Turn 10 has chosen the wrong system.

Being a first party developer, I doubt there was much choice involved there. Anyways, there's lots of space on my HDD left.

I'd say that it's more to do with the limitations of actual processing power, much like what's causing the frame rate drops and tearing in GT5. It'd take a decent bit of time to optimize the code to the point that substantially more could be squeezed into FM4.

Any game on PC would honestly be better. Imagine how good the Lexus LFA from GT5 would look on PC

Just look at Shift 2, with everying cranked up to 11... And maybe a few mods.

I've already explained previously back to Luminis of the possibilities of how this update came to be. 1st off it wasn't possible at release, you are ridiculous if you think other wise.

Yeah, yeah, we all know this. PD has so little guys and so little time. And it's entirely not their fault that they didn't staff up in time.

I suppose it was the €vil M$ €mpire that halted those plans...

Well not possible at release, but possible exactly when forza 4 is beein released, hmm, that sounds strange?

To some it doesn't, appearently.

 

[Daverytimes]

Well not possible at release, but possible exactly when forza 4 is beein released, hmm, that sounds strange? By the way, many academics might consider you are wrong, because you dont see PD tactics here. Its very common that companies do stuff like this, simply because they dont want to loose customers to its competitors.

I don't want to call you stupid but you are displaying the symptoms of stupidity, so Kaz magically knew when Forza 4 was releasing back in 2010?. You don't like GT5, you never did. If you will just admit that we can all move on, nothing wrong in not liking a game.

Uh, what? Nothing wrong with being happy about receiving stuff, and it's true that it's better to get it late than to not get it at all. But, do you really want to tell me that it's totally cool to have to wait for a year for some rather basic things that, in the opinion of a few people, it seems, should have been in the game on release day?
.

Oh really? well i guess it's cool that Turn 10 are holding back content so they can charge you. Right? right?? no? yes? maybe?.
EDIT: And you are still making the same mistake, whether it's basic or not, whether it's in other games in the series or not, the fact that it was never in the game means that it was never in the game. So if such features are added (And for FREE at that), its worth it.

 

[shintastic48]

GT5 gives you premiums for quality and standards for quantity. Forza balances both on a somewhat coherent level, in my opinion.

GT5 has the numbers, and the premiums sure are pure quality, but it just does both quality and quantity individually, in my opinion.

But, hey, the standard cars did, at least, get "cockpits" now, right? :sly

Again, like I said. It's a strange equilibrium.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

What leaderboards in GT5? Just in the seasonals? I wouldnt waste my time, I like overall leaderboards that were promised but never delivered.



I'd never waste my time on a game in hope of updates, its wrong - GT5 has had enough time from me, even if the update is absolutely amazing its too late - I dont buy games and from day one sit and wait on updates to make them better (unless of course its minimalistic error fixing and done in an acceptable period of time). It should have been right since day one content promised like leaderboards should have been delivered - not added on a year later.

Hotlapping in Forza is always going to be much more rewarding as you can check your place in the world leaderboards for the car you have just built and tuned and tested.

When you build a car in GT5 all you can go on is your own times and try to beat your own best times, once you have reached your limit you cant compare with anyone or check the best times or your friends times.

When a bunch of GTP members want to compare times they could just check friends leaderboards to compare between each other - GT5 doesnt offer that luxury unless its a seasonal event.

Whereas with Forza you can choose any track and car combo and hotlap it knowing your times are recorded and people can see you were in a certain car, class and drivetrain. How can hot lapping in GT5 compare to that.

The seasonal leaderboards are quite good in the sense that you can win them. GT Academy and the Mercedes ones have been the best ones for me so far. I wouldn’t call it wasting time on these events, the Japaense people who finished top 10 in the Mercedes one get to go to the PD studio. You don’t have to wait for updates, you can still play the game .

I don’t really like tuned leaderboards but I get what you saying. It is good to compare how well a car does. However competing for top places on the leaderboards in Forza is limited to a few cars which are the fastest in the game.

GT has yet to offer fixed leaderboards so FM is ahead for that reason. Shame there is no GT5P style leaderboards in the game yet.

Even on road cars the basics of this can be present, my own Alfa allows me to changes between three settings that affect how the throttle mapping, turbo, stability and traction control function.

Its one of the areas I love in GT and would certainly like to see in FM.





The demo does show that in the rivals mode at the very least this is the case, with invalid laps shown with a warning triangle (both on the leaderboards and on you time in the HUD). The leaderboards are also split so that valid laps will always rank higher than invalid laps.



I have to say that even from a short play with the Rivals mode it trumps fixed leaderboards for me. That it picks the friend who is closest to my time and loads the ghost of their run for me to drive against and keeps doing so as I improve works incredibly well.

That GT took a step back from GT5P in terms of leaderboards was a strange choice for me and they now have a lot of catching up to do to match what FM4 seems to be offering (and Autolog in the Shift series).


Scaff

ESP is usually the easiest to turn off I found in real life with cars that have it.

It is one of the things I like about my DFGT wheel although I will now be upgrading to a G27 in a few months time due to the added support.

I think GT5 should implement ghost replay for every time submitted to leaderboards like Codemaster games and Forza’s rival mode. It has friends’ rankings already so if they add fixed leaderboards then people can attempt to beat each others times. It would be good for game events like Autolog does too but that is probably for a future GT game. Top 250 cap in-game should be removed for leaderboards in GT5 and they should show total players like Forza does.

I think they took that step back is due to the number of cars and tracks being so much greater. That gives a lot of separate leaderboard standings and hopefully they will figure out how to implement it well in GT5 in some form of update.




About PD and updating it due to Forza, not just for the fans. Well I remind you that GT5P had three spec updates and they were for free as well so it is nothing new for PD to do this. They are probably releasing it on the day Forza comes out in America to test if sales gets affected for a rival platform developer and to see if any new users come and also if current users stay. They probably finished the update at around a similar time. I'm looking forward to the DLC, hope it brings Pikes Peak so I can drive around on it with a Suzuki Escudo.

 

[Luminis]

I don't want to call you stupid but you are displaying the symptoms of stupidity, so Kaz magically knew when Forza 4 was releasing back in 2010?. You don't like GT5, you never did. If you will just admit that we can all move on, nothing wrong in not liking a game.

You do realize that FM4 was annpunced for "fall of 2011" in December 2010, right? Little magic involved to just keep some content hidden until fall - by which time you'll know the exact date.

No magic involved there, just reading the competitions press releases.

 

[zr1chris]

I don't want to call you stupid but you are displaying the symptoms of stupidity, so Kaz magically knew when Forza 4 was releasing back in 2010?. You don't like GT5, you never did. If you will just admit that we can all move on, nothing wrong in not liking a game.

He didn't know about it in 2010 but he has known about it for a solid 6 months now (which im sure they didn't even start working on it until after the release date of FM4 was announced). It was definitely done on the same day for a reason which I stated on the last page. If GT5 didn't have a major update now then they would risk losing a good portion of it's current players to people that have both systems like most of the people in the FM section of the forums. Now with Spec2 coming out they won't risk as much of a loss of it's players to FM.

Oh really? well i guess it's cool that Turn 10 are holding back content so they can charge you. Right? right?? no? yes? maybe?.

PD is going to be doing the same thing. It's called DLC. Almost every game does it these days.