FM4 and G27/G25 compatibility
- Thread starter Neenor
- 67 comments
- 32,663 views
- 266
- Bozeman
- djespeed
- djespeed
The G27/25 can be used with a system that supports what's called HID, or Human Interface Device input. Normally, the Xbox 360 doesn't support HID without some sort of XID (Xbox Interface Device) to HID translator. In other words, you won't be able to use the G25/27 without an extra device. Since the Xbox 360 won't support the Logitech G25/27, Forza 4 will, in turn, not support the wheels. Just buy a Fanatec wheel or an MS wheel if you can find one. If you want to use a Logitech G25/27 with your Xbox so badly, check out the XCM F1 Converter. I don't recommend it, however, on the account that it doesn't fully provide the optimum experience that an Xbox-compatible wheel will give you. :/
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- 9,472
- QLD, Down Under
- GTP_Paulie
- Paulie LDP
From what I understand, using that device doesn't give force feedback on the Logitech wheels, so the MS wheel would be better. However, with the price of the Fanatecs and the quality of the MS wheel (if they're even sold any more, I thought they were obsolete?), I too would potentially only buy Forza 4 and an X-Box if it was G25 compatible, unless it had an unspeakably good Australian car set.
Thanks for the replies, after buying a G27 and being really pleased with it I'll stick with it, I'm not buying another wheel.
I suppose MS are the losers for me because they don't support all wheels. However, it's not as though the G27 is fully supported in GT5 but at least it works!
I suppose MS are the losers for me because they don't support all wheels. However, it's not as though the G27 is fully supported in GT5 but at least it works!
- 2,414
For purely selfish reasons I hope that the Logitech wheels never get supported for the 360. Reason why is because if this happens I guarantee that developers would get lazy and not fully support the Fanatec wheels. I've said it before but for a recap. The Fanatec wheels have 2 additional motors for everything but Force Feedback in addition to the main motor which does the Force Feedback. The xbox's XID fully supports these 3 motors. The Logitech wheels do not have separate motors for rumble , engine vibration, tire effects etc. This added feedback , in my opinion, greatly enhances the driving simulation experience. However, if the Logitech wheels were supported on the 360 there would be no need for developers to go through the hassle supporting the Fanatec's additional motors. They would just make it emulate a G27/25. Need proof? See GT5. It makes the steering wheel SOOOO hollow and toy like when not having that extra feedback.
Well the way I see it, still, is that if they don't support the extra wheels then they won't be able to capitalise on the PS3 GT5 market. (unless they play with a fanatec).
Would be a shame for MS and T10 as they would lose out. A lot. I would buy a Xbox and forza if they supported the G27.
Would be a shame for MS and T10 as they would lose out. A lot. I would buy a Xbox and forza if they supported the G27.
- 2,414
Too bad you couldn't audition a Fanatec wheel man. You would change your mind about the G27. Like I've said before I got a G27 practically brand new sitting in the box because not to soon after I got it I bought a Fanatec. Haven't touched the G27 since. I compared them on GT5 and the Fanatec just does it better. I really didn't like the "notchy" toy feel of the gear mechanism in the G27. The Fanatec's belt driven implementation is just sooo much smoother and realistic in it's feel. Couple that with the Clubsport pedals and this is what sim racing is about. But it's one of those things you have to experience first hand.
- 2,414
I bet it isn't as much as you think. For the simple fact the wheel market isn't as much as you think to begin with. And even the vast majority of the not so big wheel purchases go to PC users who wouldn't even think to buy a console for their racing. When I bought my G27 they had to actually cut the price in half just to get these wheels off the shelves. Wheels don't fly off the shelves. It's a really niche thing.
I'm not even telling you to purchase a new wheel "just for Forza". I know how it feels to run out and get hardware in anticipation for what you think is going to be good times ahead only to experience a dud (G27+PS3+GT5 purchase for me, and in all actuality the Fanatec purchase but that wound up being it the best purchase in quite some time because how great it feels). Think of it as purchasing a new wheel to enhance your GT5 experience because that's EXACTLY what it will do.
You got to also remember anything that MS does is going to cost them money. They can't just wake up one day and say "Hey let's support Logitech wheels" and by the end of the day you can hook a G27 up to your 360 no problem. Stuff like that takes time AND money and they have to weigh is the little they gain in their best interest. They may indeed support those wheels in the future or put out an adapter to make those wheels work but as of now I doubt it. They probably calculated the numbers and it just didn't pay off for them.
Trust me, the have a rough idea of who will actually by a 360 and Forza if they retired their XID, which in effect would exactly be what they'd be doing by supporting Logitech wheels, and it's obviously not in their best interest. I personally think the number would be EXTREMELY small because I can hear those with G27s saying "It's great that the 360 supports Logitech now but I'm not buying a 360 and Forza until issue B is cleared first"
The Xbox has it's own system it runs with a set of functions you can use to make software, these functions are called an API. The USB port is just a port, the information the USB port receives needs to be formatted in a way that the API can make sense of it and pass it along to the game.
A custom input API is common in closed systems like the Xbox. The main reason is consoles are usually sold at a loss and peripheral sales offset the costs. You either buy the Microsoft controller or a third-party controller that pays licensing fees to Microsoft. The other intentions of this system is to provide the "it just works" experience, as well as optimize it for games with multiple wireless controllers, "chat pads," headsets, play and charge kits, pressure sensitive buttons, and everything else you can think of.
http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Xbox-Xbox-360-READ-ONLY-ARCHIVE/G25-for-Xbox-360/m-p/372319
One can only guess WTF the problem is.
- 2,421
- Kentucky, USA
- James_Page
- PageyTheSquid
I wish Forza/Microsoft would support Logitech wheels as well, but it's not going to happen. Not on the 360 at least.
I'm glad I have a Fanatec and G27, but in all honesty I prefer my G27 over the GT3RS. I do prefer the Clubsport pedals over the Logitech, but for some reason I think the G27 feels better than the Fanatec, and if Microsoft supported the G27 my Fanatec would just collect dust.
I should have my T500RS in a few weeks though, so my G27 will probably be the one collecting dust now. Hopefully games will get patched (Shift 2) so the Thrustmaster is compatible.
Parker
I'm glad I have a Fanatec and G27, but in all honesty I prefer my G27 over the GT3RS. I do prefer the Clubsport pedals over the Logitech, but for some reason I think the G27 feels better than the Fanatec, and if Microsoft supported the G27 my Fanatec would just collect dust.
I should have my T500RS in a few weeks though, so my G27 will probably be the one collecting dust now. Hopefully games will get patched (Shift 2) so the Thrustmaster is compatible.
Parker
- 360
- Seattle, WA
- JuiceMcGoose
- JuiceMcGoose1
Neenor, I was close to where you are a while back. I had a G25 and PS3 and gaming computer. I wanted to get Forza but didn't want to get a new wheel and the Xbox 360 was not reliable.
When the reliability of the Xbox slim was proven I got one and a Fanatec. I figured it was worth it due to the amount of time I spend gaming and how much fun it is. Relative to the cost of everything else I figured it was worth it. I'm glad I did.
Besides FM3 being vastly superior to GT5, the difference of Dirt1 and Dirt2 on PS3 and Dirt3 on Xbox is a big deal to me. I like to compete on leaderboards and with PS3 it usually takes between 5 and 30 minutes for your time to upload, if it works at all. A lot of the time it's down. With Xbox it's instant and it was only down a couple of times with Forza 3.
The adjust-ability of the Fanatec is also a big deal. It will do 90 to 900 degrees of total rotation. Plus you can dial in the amount of linearity you want with any game. Great wheel.
When the reliability of the Xbox slim was proven I got one and a Fanatec. I figured it was worth it due to the amount of time I spend gaming and how much fun it is. Relative to the cost of everything else I figured it was worth it. I'm glad I did.
Besides FM3 being vastly superior to GT5, the difference of Dirt1 and Dirt2 on PS3 and Dirt3 on Xbox is a big deal to me. I like to compete on leaderboards and with PS3 it usually takes between 5 and 30 minutes for your time to upload, if it works at all. A lot of the time it's down. With Xbox it's instant and it was only down a couple of times with Forza 3.
The adjust-ability of the Fanatec is also a big deal. It will do 90 to 900 degrees of total rotation. Plus you can dial in the amount of linearity you want with any game. Great wheel.
- 115
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say your opinion of Fanatec vs Logitech would be different if you had played Forza with a PWTS or GT2. As others have mentioned the hardware difference has a huge impact in the feeling of the car that comes through the wheel. I was disappointed with how the PWTS I have performs when not using it with the 360. I won't go into too much detail as I don't want this to turn into yet another GT vs Forza topic, but I will say you're really missing out on something special.
Cool that you're getting a T500RS though, I'd seriously consider one of those if I wasn't hooked on Forza.
- 2,421
- Kentucky, USA
- James_Page
- PageyTheSquid
I actually decided to purchase a Fanatec because a buddy had a GT2 and after playing Forza with it, I knew I had to get one as well. I really like both products and they both do their jobs very well. Fanatec for Forza and G27 for GT5.
I'm really excited for the T500RS as well. I'll be building a PC as well, so it'll be put to really good use. Hopefully a shifter is announced soon.
Parker
- 4,038
- United States
- 2,414
You guys get it. It's hard to explain something that's so "esoteric" but you got it. It just hit me how I can explain the difference to people who don't know.
It's sorta like the difference between having a nice stationary rig and a nice rig with hydraulics. Or better yet, the difference between the Fanatec when used with the 360 and particularly (but not limited too) Forza and say the G27 with the G25 is like using a wheel with force feedback versus a wheel with no force feedback or a rubber band that just keeps center. There's alot of tactile information coming through the wheel that you just can't get anywhere but with the 360.
Bonefork explained how this closed system works and what's the usual motivation for doing so and he's very much correct. But what he failed to add , and guys I usually almost never come to Microsoft's "defense" (I'm an Amiga/Mac/Solaris/VAX guy, deep hatred for Windows, DOS and any and all Microsoft Operation Systems), but in this case they DID do a value-add with their XID system. The idea to have separate motors for vibration and force feedback in the original Microsoft wheel was a stroke of genius. IT SIMPLY WORKS! The other true reason why Microsoft did this was to lessen the load on the 360's cpu and have the controller do some work.
The only other time where I can say the closed system was well worth it was the VMU on the Dreamcast.
I agree with you, it's "popular" to rag on the MS Wheel but it's actually a very good wheel. It has it's critical design flaws (paddle shifters, what were they thinking with their implementation) but that aside it's a damn good wheel. And for those who have some basic soldering skills and feel comfy with a Dremel can bypass the paddle shifters.
- 115
The cost of a Fanatec is directly comparable to the G27 (here in the US anyway). The Fanatec cost doesn't skyrocket until you add in the clubsport pedals.
The bigger issue for most it seems is that they've already spent the money on the G27 so they're already $300 in the hole before even considering another wheel. Honestly if I was in the same situation I would probably feel the same way.
- 4,038
- United States
The Fanatec is actually less expensive, at least in the US when compared, and the Fanatec works on the PS3, 360 and PC, which makes it even more affordable (the G27 only works on the PC and PS3).
The Fanatec is indeed the way to go. You could also go with the new Madcatz wheel, or buy the MS wheel (though they are hard to find now).
Are you sure? I just got my GT2 bundle (GT2, CS pedals, shifters set, and a free dongle) delivered last 2 weeks after ~31 days of waiting since placing an preorder at Pagnian Imports. It costs $799 AUD for whole bundle, but if you're interested in buying GT2 wheel only, its $449, more expensive than a brand new G27, I bought my old G27 for $390 at JBHifi.
zhunter I was walking through eb i think it was a few weeks ago, I noticed a g27 sitting there with a $600+ price tag.I have seen them at DSE for 700 and Logitech has them listed for online 550(add postage and it would be close to 600).
A gt2 with standard pedals can be had for nowhere near this!!
I had one of the first shipments of the pwts, I had to have it shipped to a friend in the USA then she shipped it over to me because fanatec would not send directly to aus, with all the postage and the price that was considered astronomical for a wheel at the time, it still worked out less than i could buy a g27 off the shelf for.
Ill add that paganian imports prices are on another planet! If you did the work and had a friend in the states ship it over to you, you could have saved hundreds
GT2 wheel 249.95 US
CSP 199.95 US
Shifter set 29.95 US
Dongle 29.95 US
Shipping from usa $130 US
All up, about $600AUD to your door given the current exchange rate.(same price as a g27 ordered from logitech and a MUCH better wheel and pedals that are on another planet in terms of quality)
If you chose to use the standard pedals though, which are comparable to the g27 pedals the price is closer to 450 AUD. Given you dont need the dongle if you have the standard pedals because you can connect it to your pc or ps3 by a usb cable then you save another 30 bucks. and viola. GT2 is a better wheel, and cheaper than a g27
and not by a small margain either. 420ish for the gt2 vs 600-700 for the g27
A gt2 with standard pedals can be had for nowhere near this!!
I had one of the first shipments of the pwts, I had to have it shipped to a friend in the USA then she shipped it over to me because fanatec would not send directly to aus, with all the postage and the price that was considered astronomical for a wheel at the time, it still worked out less than i could buy a g27 off the shelf for.
Ill add that paganian imports prices are on another planet! If you did the work and had a friend in the states ship it over to you, you could have saved hundreds
GT2 wheel 249.95 US
CSP 199.95 US
Shifter set 29.95 US
Dongle 29.95 US
Shipping from usa $130 US
All up, about $600AUD to your door given the current exchange rate.(same price as a g27 ordered from logitech and a MUCH better wheel and pedals that are on another planet in terms of quality)
If you chose to use the standard pedals though, which are comparable to the g27 pedals the price is closer to 450 AUD. Given you dont need the dongle if you have the standard pedals because you can connect it to your pc or ps3 by a usb cable then you save another 30 bucks. and viola. GT2 is a better wheel, and cheaper than a g27
and not by a small margain either. 420ish for the gt2 vs 600-700 for the g27
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I wouldn't purchase a wheel just for one game either i completely agree..... But this is also why I went with the Fanatec GT2 and CSP over the Logitech setup because it supported all 3 systems. PC, XBOX, PS3.
If Logitech would have had a 3 system supported product I would have likely gone for that one instead due to the shipping delays with the Fanatec products........ maybe It does look to be a bit better quality to me but that's just a personal preference i think
- 4,038
- United States
Good thing we have a bunch of wheel options now. Pretty slick.
- 1,662
- Tennessee,USA
- StarFirebird
- starfirebird
No logitech wheel support?Well that stinks.If i had the money to buy another wheel i would.
I guess i won't be purchasing this game then.
I guess i won't be purchasing this game then.
- 4,038
- United States
There are by far better options than the logitech wheels out there, so I can't see any reason not to buy the game and get the better wheels if you really want to get into the sim hobby.
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