For Those Of You Who Have Forza 6 And GT6, Which Do You Like More?

22,803
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United Kingdom
That is your opinion... Games physics improve each title, so the cars fell all a bit different. Its your choice to buy them in the game and drive them, or not. No one forces you.

For me I would never want any car removed, never. To me it would be great if GT7 had all the previous cars from all GT's combined. Certainly it wont happen though.

I think its great to see and feel the same cars through the evolution of the series, and watch them become more and more realistic.

No nobody forces me to but you were using "1200+ cars" as a reason GT6 is better value. I'm saying that value is severely diminished if most of that number is recycled. Forza 6, with a LOT more new cars to the series seems better value to me. A totally new experience beats a potentially semi-new experience.

So what else makes GT6 better value?
 

TS050

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ask
You say you are not a car fan but to me it looks like you dont care about the cars, but about the graphics.
Read again, you are saying PS2 assets wont be in the PS4, no one else does. Since GT6 Standards dont equal to PS2 assets. They're just a B class detail cars over the A class that are the premium ones.

I only care about that graphics? Well, Ridge Racer Type 4 is one of my favourite racing games of all time, and that came out on the original PlayStation; so no, I couldn't care less about graphics in that aspect.

And GT6's standards are literally from GT4; so they're PS2 assets.
 

Downhill Dino

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DownhillDinosaur
And GT6's standards are literally from GT4; so they're PS2 assets.

Hey they're a lot better now! We all know they've improved even from back in the GT5 days. Not as good as current premiums, close for some and no where near for others, but I'd argue they aren't still PS2 quality.
 
12,841
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GTP_Imari
Since GT6 Standards dont equal to PS2 assets.

I don't see why not.

GT6 has at least three classes of assets, premiums from the PS3 generation, standards from the PS2 generation, and semi-premiums that are PS2 assets that have had significant work done to improve their external visual quality. There's even more than that if you want to get into the divisions of premiums.

Given Polyphony's modelling rate, the number of semi-premiums that appeared in GT6, and their stated wish to include standards in the next game, it's a reasonable assumption that a PS4 game will feature PS2 assets. At least until we have concrete evidence otherwise.

I remember when the news broke that GT5 would have standard cars. Many people refused to believe it. They were certain that Polyphony would have 1000 cars at premium quality. Of course, we got exactly what you would expect, and it seems somewhat silly now to have expected anything else.

PS4 is no different. There's no real way that they can remodel or upgrade that many standards. They're either going to have to drop some, or include PS2 assets, or outsource an enormous amount of work. Polyphony have only indicated that they're considering one of those things.

Hey they're a lot better now! We all know they've improved even from back in the GT5 days. Not as good as current premiums, close for some and no where near for others, but I'd argue they aren't still PS2 quality.

No, they haven't. A few have, but the vast majority are PS2 photomode models. Or at least, I've never seen anything to suggest otherwise.

The statistics of the GT6 Car List (up to now) are as follows:
  • Total Cars: 1.241
  • New Cars (GT6): 168
  • Old Cars (GT5-GT4): 1.075
  • Premium Cars: 447
  • Semi-Premium Cars: 152
  • Standard Cars: 642

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...ear-credits-pp-drive-and-make-columns.295180/
 

Downhill Dino

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No, they haven't. A few have, but the vast majority are PS2 photomode models. Or at least, I've never seen anything to suggest otherwise.

You'll have to excuse me then, I recall someone taking a look at the worst models among them and showing the improvements over time alon with variots other cars. That of course doesn't mean all of them so a bit of assuming going into that. These photos are lost somewhere and I've been meaning to take a set myself at some point. Heh, a bit of put up or shut up eh? I'll get around to it when I have the time. 👍
 
22,803
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
You'll have to excuse me then, I recall someone taking a look at the worst models among them and showing the improvements over time alon with variots other cars. That of course doesn't mean all of them so a bit of assuming going into that. These photos are lost somewhere and I've been meaning to take a set myself at some point. Heh, a bit of put up or shut up eh? I'll get around to it when I have the time. 👍

You're right, his point it that it's a small sub-set of the cars that have been improved like you talk about. Not all ~800.

Anyway, they're all still PS2 assets. Some are just tidied up PS2 assets.
 
39,353
GT6 has at least three classes of assets, premiums from the PS3 generation, standards from the PS2 generation, and semi-premiums that are PS2 assets that have had significant work done to improve their external visual quality. There's even more than that if you want to get into the divisions of premiums.

You don't even have to divide up the Premiums to get more than 3. There are already four obvious quality tiers among the Standard cars. You have the untouched PS2 Standard cars, the handful of Standards that look worse than they did on PS2 because of modeling errors that were never fixed (like static body panels that originally moved in the PS2 games, badly done livery edits or the LoD glitches carried over from GT5), the few dozen or so Semi Premiums that PD actually remodeled from the ground up (or made a dupe of a Premium for) other than interior, and the other 80 or so that people bundle with the likes of the RUF models and such but in reality are the exact same PS2 models with edited meshes of varying degrees of laziness (like the Standard Alpine that has body panel shutlines modeled in right over the top of the unchanged low resolution body panel textures),
 
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14,065
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lImaRobotl
No, you are completely overlooking the fact that forza series are in general far more expensive considering all the paid DLC and F6 is no exception. So its no problem if one product is more expensive than the other and its not a con?
An iphone being ridiculously expensive compared to pretty much all the android rivals is not a con? Come on, get real.
I repeat, I said exclude the paid DLC only, not the free DLC
No I'm not overlooking anything. Optional DLC is not included in the price of a game because it is optional. It is not required for the game to function so there is no reason to include it in it's base price.

Both games are $60 out the door. You said exclude all the DLC. If you where actually talking about removing the paid DLC only, then you yourself already shut down your whole argument about price. The amount of free content released with each iteration of Forza already rivals, if not, surpasses, the amount of content released for free from GT.

Well, someone here accused me of "ignoring" some forza's DLC because they're not free and others choose to ignore more than half of GT6 cars because they have not enough graphics detail... Nice.
No, you literally said to ignore the DLC. You are the only one ignoring anything.

Standards will stay according to Kaz, and I'm glad he said it.
Quality and graphics details are extremely overrated and overhyped things these days. Games are not there for being watched but for being played. Games are not visual shows, games are games. There's no need to have cars modeled to the most extreme details to include the tiniest pieces and bolts.
Wrong because;
I myself enjoy visual fidelity, especially with all the time I spend in photomode.
PD themselves are also all about visual fidelity as well, or else they wouldn't spend so much time and resources on these premiums. PD have been all about extreme details, for anything that has been modeled and introduced with the PS3 onwards. That they chose use old assets doesn't take away from that fact.
How are you supposed to play a game without watching it? You're grasping at straws here.

Just because you are maybe not a car fan but a graphics fan doesnt mean the standards have to be ditched. There are plenty of great cars amongst the standards. And no one said they would be PS2 assets. Standards mean 2nd class quality compared to premiums. Saying that there will be PS2 assets in the PS4 is like PS1 assets in the PS3 and that never happened, obviously.
Standards are called that because they are literally PS2 assets. PS3 modeled vehicles are practically future proof, so they are obviously not going to be called standards now. If that is the case then a whole different name would have to be made up for the current standards that are going to be introduce into the PS4, something worse.

I compare what you get for the money you pay when you buy the games, it is that simple. I did not exclude the free DLC.

Nice try though. Or maybe not that nice, it was a rather weak try.
Except that is not what you're doing whatsoever. You specifically started the argument that Forza was somewhere in the 150 with the DLC, and how GT DLC is free. That is the complete opposite of what you're pretending you're saying. Here's the quote for reference.
You guys are always missing something very important when it comes to compare GT6 and forza games.

Their price.

GT6 has absolutely no paid DLC so far. Every update has come for free.

How much does Forza 6 cost, including ALL paid DLC? 150€? more?

You say you are not a car fan but to me it looks like you dont care about the cars, but about the graphics.
Read again, you are saying PS2 assets wont be in the PS4, no one else does. Since GT6 Standards dont equal to PS2 assets. They're just a B class detail cars over the A class that are the premium ones.
What I care about is for a game company to use consistent detailing for every part of the game, not just some of it. Either way, neither have absolutely anything to do with being a car fan, so why not just drop it? GT6 standards are PS2 assets, what are you even talking about?

That is your opinion... Games physics improve each title, so the cars fell all a bit different. Its your choice to buy them in the game and drive them, or not. No one forces you.
So now that you understand the sentiment of actually having a choice. The same exact idea goes with DLC. It's your choice to buy them, no one forces you.
 
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NixxxoN

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No I'm not overlooking anything. Optional DLC is not included in the price of a game because it is optional. It is not required for the game to function so there is no reason to include it in it's base price.

Both games are $60 out the door. You said exclude all the DLC. If you where actually talking about removing the paid DLC only, then you yourself already shut down your whole argument about price. The amount of free content released with each iteration of Forza already rivals, if not, surpasses, the amount of content released for free from GT.

No, you literally said to ignore the DLC. You are the only one ignoring anything.

Wrong because;
I myself enjoy visual fidelity, especially with all the time I spend in photomode.
PD themselves are also all about visual fidelity as well, or else they wouldn't spend so much time and resources on these premiums. PD have been all about extreme details, for anything that has been modeled and introduced with the PS3 onwards. That they chose use old assets doesn't take away from that fact.
How are you supposed to play a game without watching it? You're grasping at straws here.

Standards are called that because they are literally PS2 assets. PS3 modeled vehicles are practically future proof, so they are obviously not going to be called standards now. If that is the case then a whole different name would have to be made up for the current standards that are going to be introduce into the PS4, something worse.

Except that is not what you're doing whatsoever. You specifically started the argument that Forza was somewhere in the 150 with the DLC, and how GT DLC is free. That is the complete opposite of what you're pretending you're saying. Here's the quote for reference.

What I care about is for a game company to use consistent detailing for every part of the game, not just some of it. Either way, neither have absolutely anything to do with being a car fan, so why not just drop it? GT6 standards are PS2 assets, what are you even talking about?

So now that you understand the sentiment of actually having a choice. The same exact idea goes with DLC. It's your choice to buy them, no one forces you.

I was talking about paid DLC, not all DLC. Yes maybe I made mistake somewhere but I dont think it was hard to get it.
Standards maybe were synomym of PS2 cars in GT5 but not in GT6 as there are several higher quality standards. That will increase further surely in future GT(S).

You enjoy visual fidelity? Photomode? Geez. Why dont you simply go and see real cars instead of wanting the wrong things in a videogame? Do you even realise of how much time and effort it takes to get this kind of detail?

Players like you are responsible for "destroying" videogames of nowadays, I've said it many times and I will keep on saying it anytime I feel its necessary.

Graphics graphics graphics graphics. So developers listen to the demands and make games with great graphics and poor everything else.

And that last bit is a poor analogy. One uses real money and the other virtual. Not the same at all.

I don't see why not.

GT6 has at least three classes of assets, premiums from the PS3 generation, standards from the PS2 generation, and semi-premiums that are PS2 assets that have had significant work done to improve their external visual quality. There's even more than that if you want to get into the divisions of premiums.

Given Polyphony's modelling rate, the number of semi-premiums that appeared in GT6, and their stated wish to include standards in the next game, it's a reasonable assumption that a PS4 game will feature PS2 assets. At least until we have concrete evidence otherwise.

I remember when the news broke that GT5 would have standard cars. Many people refused to believe it. They were certain that Polyphony would have 1000 cars at premium quality. Of course, we got exactly what you would expect, and it seems somewhat silly now to have expected anything else.

PS4 is no different. There's no real way that they can remodel or upgrade that many standards. They're either going to have to drop some, or include PS2 assets, or outsource an enormous amount of work. Polyphony have only indicated that they're considering one of those things.

Outsourcing to remake the standards to RUF quality thats what they should do. GT should never drop quantity for the sake of quality.
 
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lImaRobotl
I was talking about paid DLC, not all DLC. Yes maybe I made mistake somewhere but I dont think it was hard to get it.
Standards maybe were synomym of PS2 cars in GT5 but not in GT6 as there are several higher quality standards. That will increase further surely in future GT(S).
It was hard to get because you said one thing, and now you're saying another.

You enjoy visual fidelity? Photomode? Geez. Why dont you simply go and see real cars instead of wanting the wrong things in a videogame? Do you even realise of how much time and effort it takes to get this kind of detail?
Why don't you go drive real cars instead of driving them in a video game?

Players like you are responsible for "destroying" videogames of nowadays, I've said it many times and I will keep on saying it anytime I feel its necessary.
PD are all about visual fidelity. If that's your view, then it's PD destroying video games now adays, not me.

Graphics graphics graphics graphics. So developers listen to the demands and make games with great graphics and poor everything else.
They've started that on their own. It's a good step too.

And that last bit is a poor analogy. One uses real money and the other virtual. Not the same at all.
That's because you missed the point completely.
 

NixxxoN

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It was hard to get because you said one thing, and now you're saying another.

Why don't you go drive real cars instead of driving them in a video game?

PD are all about visual fidelity. If that's your view, then it's PD destroying video games now adays, not me.

They've started that on their own. It's a good step too.

That's because you missed the point completely.
Yeah right. Please show me those quotes from Kaz or PD staff that say that they are all about visual fidelity and dont care about anything else.
I'm saying that everything is important, not only graphics. I dont say graphics are not important at all, but please, we should not be so obsessed with it.
 
2,031
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TeamACRZARacingo
GyroxOpex
Yeah right. Please show me those quotes from Kaz or PD staff that say that they are all about visual fidelity and dont care about anything else.
I'm saying that everything is important, not only graphics. I dont say graphics are not important at all, but please, we should not be so obsessed with it.
Might as well quit now, man. You're just digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself here.
 
14,065
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lImaRobotl
Yeah right. Please show me those quotes from Kaz or PD staff that say that they are all about visual fidelity and dont care about anything else.
I'm saying that everything is important, not only graphics. I dont say graphics dont matter at all, but please, we should not be so obsessed with it.
Are you saying that you don't think it's so, with such a high poly count premiums, amazing weather conditions, attention to detail, hell even adaptive tessellation works as something to uphold visuals. Their photomode alone makes it glaringly obvious that they care just as much about this as anyone else.

Are you trying to say that you don't think that they are trying to make a beautiful game? It shows in their work that has been released from the PS3 onward. Still, either way, I never said they didn't care about anything else, but it's obvious that this is something very high on their list. Otherwise they wouldn't have made premiums so damn detailed that it can hinder performance.


You enjoy visual fidelity? Photomode? Geez. Why dont you simply go and see real cars instead of wanting the wrong things in a videogame? Do you even realise of how much time and effort it takes to get this kind of detail?

Players like you are responsible for "destroying" videogames of nowadays, I've said it many times and I will keep on saying it anytime I feel its necessary.

Graphics graphics graphics graphics. So developers listen to the demands and make games with great graphics and poor everything else.

Quality and graphics details are extremely overrated and overhyped things these days. Games are not there for being watched but for being played. Games are not visual shows, games are games. There's no need to have cars modeled to the most extreme details to include the tiniest pieces and bolts.

What you're saying is that graphics are not important at all. You literally just said that. Even going so far to say that people that like graphics are destroying the gaming industry. No where in there did you say everything is important.

You're back tracking and changing your words so often that I dont even think that you know what you're saying anymore.
 
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NixxxoN

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It's hilarious that you said something this idiotic after just lecturing someone about not being a real car fan.
You use the insulting route now?
GT games purpose is to try to mimic real cars behavior and so you can drive them without having to pay for it.
However if you want to take pictures of cars you much better off taking pictures of the real thing, believe me. Its much much cheaper than driving them and you can go see them in the museums not to talk about the millions of pics uploades on the internet.
The thing is, its extremely complicated for developers to go into insanely high details while trying to keep a good pace of car releases, and its obvious that some people here demand and demand, without knowing any consequences and thinking its easy.
Might as well quit now, man. You're just digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself here.
I'm not in any hole and I wont quit, thanks
 
22,803
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
You use the insulting route now?
GT games purpose is to try to mimic real cars behavior and so you can drive them without having to pay for it.
However if you want to take pictures of cars you much better off taking pictures of the real thing, believe me. Its much much cheaper than driving them and you can go see them in the museums not to talk about the millions of pics uploades on the internet.
The thing is, its extremely complicated for developers to go into insanely high details while trying to keep a good pace of car releases, and its obvious that some people here demand and demand, without knowing any consequences and thinking its easy.

I'm not in any hole and I wont quit, thanks

I don't recall seeing anyone demand that the stitching of rear seats be visible, that the brand name of headlights be legible or any of the other insane details PD included in their models. That is PD's mantra, not what anyone asked of them.
 
14,065
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lImaRobotl
GT games purpose is to try to mimic real cars behavior and so you can drive them without having to pay for it.
However if you want to take pictures of cars you much better off taking pictures of the real thing, believe me. Its much much cheaper than driving them and you can go see them in the museums not to talk about the millions of pics uploades on the internet.
Saying it again doesn't make it any less ridiculous. It actually does the opposite. If you want to drive cars, you're better off driving the real thing, believe me.

I'm not in any hole and I wont quit, thanks
That's because you seem to have a problem with eyes and seeing things. You yourself said games are not for seeing.
 

NixxxoN

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Are you saying that you don't think it's so, with such a high poly count premiums, amazing weather conditions, attention to detail, hell even adaptive tessellation works as something to uphold visuals. Their photomode alone makes it glaringly obvious that they care just as much about this as anyone else.

Are you trying to say that you don't think that they are trying to make a beautiful game? It shows in their work that has been released from the PS3 onward. Still, either way, I never said they didn't care about anything else, but it's obvious that this is something very high on their list. Otherwise they wouldn't have made premiums so damn detailed that it can hinder performance.

What you're saying is that graphics are not important at all. You literally just said that. Even going so far to say that people that like graphics are destroying the gaming industry. No where in there did you say everything is important.

You're back tracking and changing your words so often that I dont even think that you know what you're saying anymore.
If they cared THAT much about graphics, they would have not left those standards, thats a big proof.
I never said graphics are non important at all and perhaps you have some problems to read properly. Or at least to read something out of literal.
I always said the same thing. Always. Since 10 years ago I say it. Graphics are not as important as many people make it out to be. I see kids of nowadays that choose games only for the graphics and I want to puke
 

NixxxoN

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Saying it again doesn't make it any less ridiculous. It actually does the opposite. If you want to drive cars, you're better off driving the real thing, believe me.

That's because you seem to have a problem with eyes and seeing things. You yourself said games are not for seeing.
Thats a really lame effort. You would need a fortune to drive those cars IRL.
On the other hand to photograph the vast majority of them you only need to get some museum tickets for one half, and to get to see them in the roads for the other half.
 
14,065
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lImaRobotl
If they cared THAT much about graphics, they would have not left those standards, thats a big proof.
I never said graphics are non important at all and perhaps you have some problems to read properly. Or at least to read something out of literal.
That's not proof of anything other then that they can't seem to let go of the past. You quite literally, a few times, said graphics are not important. Here, I'll help you since you seem forget things that you've literally just said.



You enjoy visual fidelity? Photomode? Geez. Why dont you simply go and see real cars instead of wanting the wrong things in a videogame? Do you even realise of how much time and effort it takes to get this kind of detail?

Players like you are responsible for "destroying" videogames of nowadays, I've said it many times and I will keep on saying it anytime I feel its necessary.

Graphics graphics graphics graphics. So developers listen to the demands and make games with great graphics and poor everything else.

Quality and graphics details are extremely overrated and overhyped things these days. Games are not there for being watched but for being played. Games are not visual shows, games are games. There's no need to have cars modeled to the most extreme details to include the tiniest pieces and bolts.

Why would I not read it literally? We aren't speaking figuratively.

Thats a really lame effort. You would need a fortune to drive those cars IRL.
On the other hand to photograph the vast majority of them you only need to get some museum tickets for one half, and to get to see them in the roads for the other half.
I would also need a camera that is thousands of dollars if I want to be able to do that too. Your point is moot.
 
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NixxxoN

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That's not proof of anything other then that they can't seem to let go of the past. You quite literally, a few times, said graphics are not important. Here, I'll help you since you seem forget things that you've literally just said.

Why would I not read it literally? We aren't speaking figuratively.

I would also need a camera that is thousands of dollars if I want to be able to do that either. Your point is moot.
:lol::lol::lol:
So you not only seem to have serious reading problems but also you counter with nonsense replies to try to make a point. I think I'm done with you sorry.
 
22,803
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
@NixxxoN what point are you even trying to make any more that is relevant to the thread question? You don't fit the criteria of the question as far as I know, so why are you even attempting to answer?

Your original argument was that GT represented better value than Forza, but except for saying it had more cars, you've not really expanded on that. So would you like to? Why do you believe GT is better value than Forza, discounting paid DLC?
 
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TeamACRZARacingo
GyroxOpex
:lol::lol::lol:
So you not only seem to have serious reading problems but also you counter with nonsense replies to try to make a point. I think I'm done with you sorry.
How else are we supposed to take the quotes @ImaRobot mentioned? You know, these:

Quality and graphics details are extremely overrated and overhyped things these days. Games are not there for being watched but for being played. Games are not visual shows, games are games. There's no need to have cars modeled to the most extreme details to include the tiniest pieces and bolts.

You enjoy visual fidelity? Photomode? Geez. Why dont you simply go and see real cars instead of wanting the wrong things in a videogame? Do you even realise of how much time and effort it takes to get this kind of detail?

Graphics graphics graphics graphics. So developers listen to the demands and make games with great graphics and poor everything else.

That seems pretty clear-cut to me.

You keep moving the goalposts so much I'm beginning to suspect you work for FIFA.
 

NixxxoN

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@NixxxoN what point are you even trying to make any more that is relevant to the thread question? You don't fit the criteria of the question as far as I know, so why are you even attempting to answer?

Your original argument was that GT represented better value than Forza, but except for saying it had more cars, you've not really expanded on that. So would you like to? Why do you believe GT is better value than Forza, discounting paid DLC?
The car x track combination in GT6 is literally unlimited now. That's what I think it matters most. True that the course creator has huge limitations but still you can create an enormous quantity of tracks that get added to the already big track list, and using the big car list you get almost unlimited fun and combos with the online lobby system that has so many options and combinations. The game has the potential to be played for so many more years without getting old. That is for the people who really like to actually play the game and do online races, and not:
-Just checking out some cars, look for the top speed, inspect the interior and graphics detail, see how it sounds, then turn off the PS3 and proceed to complain on GTPlanet because its missing some details and it sounds like a vacuum cleaner.
That seems pretty clear-cut to me.

You keep moving the goalposts so much I'm beginning to suspect you work for FIFA.
Didnt move any goal post at all.
I say graphics are very overrated these days, yes. That doesnt mean they arent important at all. But they are THIS important not THAT important. Thats what overrated means. Did any of you guys play in the era of 8 bit consoles?
 
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lImaRobotl
The car x track combination in GT6 is literally unlimited now. Thtas what I think it matters most. True that the course creator has huge limitations but still you can create an enormous quantity of tracks that get added to the already big track list, and using the big car list you get almost unlimited fun and combos with the online lobby system that has so many options and combinations.
While the car list in FM is smaller, that's like saying one million is so small compared to two million. They both have very high play-ability in this case. The course maker was a good feature that I hope gets optimized with the release of the next GT.

Didnt move any goal post at all.
I say graphics are very overrated these days, yes. That doesnt mean they arent important at all. But they are THIS important not THAT important.
The amount of times that you put it down continuously only made it glaringly obvious that you did not mean that you wanted equal treatment for all parts of the game. You made it out to be not important at all, which is exactly what you wrote. If you did not mean that than go edit your post to reflect that, or at least acknowledge that you yourself brought it up that way, no one else.
 

NixxxoN

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The amount of times that you put it down continuously only made it glaringly obvious that you did not mean that you wanted equal treatment for all parts of the game. You made it out to be not important at all, which is exactly what you wrote. If you did not mean that than go edit your post to reflect that, or at least acknowledge that you yourself brought it up that way, no one else.
As I just edited... You know what "overrated" means? Thats why I used that word. If I though graphics had zero importance, I would've used a word like "useless" instead.
 
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lImaRobotl
As I just edited... You know what "overrated" means? Thats why I used that word. If I though graphics had zero importance, I would've used a word like "useless" instead.
You are the one that seems to not understand the words you are using, not me. Using that word already indicates that you where not even talking about everything getting equal treatment to begin with.

Your edit did nothing for that post you quoted.
 
459
Slovenia
T2
GregOr1971
Why even making a thread, if you don't own both games,don't have any intention to own both,since it is clear you already make your opinion some time ago why you like product A over B?:banghead:
 
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