Okay, screw it, let's argue because Mike likes to argue. Yay.
Ah I get it, your strawmen all defeated, you tried to be clever and it backfired, so now you'll play moderator and demand I stop posting. Despite the fact you're the one who took issue with what one post of mine said, and started this?
In case you hadn't noticed, most of this thread has consisted of off topic posts. Yours included. So get off your high horse.
Not before you came around.
Yeah PD really needs to make a Forza rivaling livery editor. I can't justify buying an X1 just for Forza games, which are the only XB exclusives that interest me, and I also don't have an X1 compatible wheel, despite my CSR being an official Forza wheel (ironically only works with PS4 in this gen lol). Despite this, Forza just has so much great stuff that is missing from GT. If T10 started selling Forza games on PS4 too, I'd buy them in a heartbeat. I think Forza is by far the best thing the Xbox has going for it.
Ah yes, Forza livery editor. Yes.
In a perfect world console exclusives wouldn't exist. Only fanboys benefit from one console not getting certain games that another one does.
The big winners would be gamers if PS4 and X1 both got GT and FM games.
Any idiot knows this is done to encourage customers to buy consoles, it's not just for fanboys. (bad word here don't you know?)
The problem with trying to achieve parity in race cars within the same category in GT games is they allow the player to modify the race cars anyway, so you could buy an LMP1, slap on a massive turbo, and dominate the field regardless of how close they were to each other.
I think it's kind of stupid that you can do that. Buying highly strung race cars and slapping on bigger turbos and such. They should allow more in depth set up options like control over wastegates within the range the real car used, but bolting on upgrades to race cars is just silly IMO.
At the very least, the real race series in the game (LMP1,Super GT, etc. etc.) should require the cars be unmodified to enter. In GT6 you could slap a massive turbo on a GT500 car, bumping it up to something like 800hp, and enter the Super GT championship and lap the field in a 3 lap race lol.
No, the problem with achieving parity is
not because you can modify cars.
People don't accidentally jack their cars up to 900 horsepower, which means it isn't mandatory, or standard.
The problem
is that the AI run wildly different paces and finish 5 lap races close to a lap apart.
Another problem is that even if a user matches their lap time to the AI, there will still be corners the AI drives to slow in, brakes too early for,and vice versa. Once you really achieve parity in GT5 or 6, you see how the AI really drives, which is well for some corners, and terribly for others.
The AI is the problem.
Haha, it's true though. We all want more competitive AI for closer races in career, but the AI could be perfect 1:1 with real race drivers and they'd still get dominated because of the ability to enter races with modified race cars.
The PP system doesn't help things much either. I'm all for having more in depth modification of the road cars. But the series that use real race cars should require them be unmodified.
Seriously, it sounds like you are genuinely concerned how other people play
their game, and if they will be able to "breeze over the competition", so to speak.
I won't even ask why you would care, because I know there aren't any good reasons to care.
Oh I'm not talking about forcing stock set ups, that wouldn't be realistic. I just think modifying the car itself is unrealistic and makes the game ridiculously easy. Of course you should be able to set the car up how you like within the real car's parameters.
I know it wouldn't appeal to casuals, but I don't really care about that lol. I know a bunch of people will say "if you want closer races just don't hot up the cars, let us play how we want to blah blah blah", and no doubt that's what I'd do, but I just think it's stupid and unrealistic the way you can modify the race cars in older GT games. On one hand you've got people that want to be able to do unrealistic mods to race engines, and on the other hand they're wanting the career races to be closer.
You're right, nobody cares how you want them to play their game they paid for. Glad I don't need to explain it farther.
The race car mods aren't any less realistic than road car mods, which is where my discrepancy comes in. You state it as though it's only unrealistic for racing engines.
It's equally unrealistic for both road and race cars.
Yeah you could think of it that way, but the stock power level in GT6 is actually their qualifying power, they were turned down for endurance races. The R89C was capable of 950hp on full boost, but in GT it goes up to around 1100hp iirc with the turbo upgrade. Not to mention, at those power levels, the engine wouldn't last long, and in GT they last forever.
Are there sources I missed?
Yeah I agree, hopefully the FIA's love of over regulating things can do some good for once and lead to better, more realistic regulations in GTS lol.
Yeah.
My point is that chucking massive turbos on already highly strung race engines is unrealistic, and the real racing cars in GT should abide by the regs they were built for. If someone wants a series to be easier, a difficulty slider would be a better idea than allowing ridiculous power upgrades to race cars, as then experienced racers would also have something to change to make the game more difficult.
As it is in GT6, you can go into Super GT in career, slap a massive turbo on one and enter, despite it being in violation of the Super GT regs, and you'll demolish the opposition, who all abide by the regs. Yes, you can keep the car stock, but what if you're a good driver? You'll still have to give the AI a lap head start to make it harder anyway. So, instead of allowing stupid unrealistic mods to race cars, a simple difficulty slider would make everyone happy.
Buying upgraded parts for road cars wouldn't be affected by that, and that is what GT has always been about, taking slow road cars, and turning them into fire breathing monsters, not taking already highly developed race cars, and doing unrealistic mods to them that you couldn't do in the real world. Hell, in GT5 you could put a roll cage in the F1 car lol.
And what does the difficulty slider do?
Slow the Ai down?
How's that
more realistic than speeding yourself up?
If upgrading slow road cars into fire-breathing monsters is what this game "has always been about", explain why there have always been highly modified race cars in GT?
Also explain why it's
more realistic to make a homemade Nissan make 900HP than a Nissan race car?
Hasn't anyone heard of difficulty sliders? lol. I'll say it one more time: Slapping a "stage 3" turbo on a race car engine which is already highly developed is unrealistic, and stupid when you can't even control the wastegate of any turbos anyway. Most turbo race engines have massive turbos already, so changing the turbo won't make the engine any more powerful. It just makes it even more of a joke that in GT6 you can enter real racing series like DTM or Super GT with cars that have had unrealistic performance mods.
GTS needs to have an adjustable AI difficulty to cater to a wider range of people. As it is in GT6, the only way to make it harder is to purposely handicap yourself by giving the AI a head start, adding a ton of ballast, or turning your engine down. There's no immersion in a sim that allows ridiculous modifications that wouldn't work in the real world, and require such handicapping to have any kind of challenge.
A properly set-up car doesn't typically run an over sized turbo, to minimize lag.
Secondly, you said adding a bigger turbo won't make the engine more powerful.
Wait...that doesn't sound intelligent at all...That's
exactly what turbos
do.
I just think it's stupid to have these upgrades in the race cars. What's the point of allowing users to do such upgrades? It makes the game less realistic, and yet they seem to arbitrarily decide which cars get which upgrades.
So many road cars that can't have turbos, when in the real world turbocharging is common, and yet race engines already with massive turbos, and you can add a magical stage 3 street kit that gives you 300 more horses lol. It's a joke.
It would be like allowing weight reduction on a formula car, or suspension upgrades to an lmp1. If they want to go for realism, they need to cut that nonsense out.
This is where you talked about adding turbos to turbo cars. Later you will refute this by stating non-turbo race engines need re-built to withstand turbos.
Oopsy.
P.S. Of course it's arbitrary...Do you think users should pick their own desires or something? Sure, I'll take a 4k Viper please.......
Well 1) hopefully there's enough variation and seasonals and such to prevent the one event grinding from previous games, and 2) "race modified" cars were just road cars made into racing cars really. What I was talking about was real life race cars built to a set of real regulations.
I actually kind of agree, ironically.
It's the part where you tell me it's impossible that I disagree with.
Not just a FoV slider, but it'd also be nice to have the ability to move the cockpit seating position around too. Forward/back, left/right, up/down. FoV and seating position saved per car too.
Yes, options for GT7, yay.
Oh of course there are race engines in game that could be boosted, but even the Super GT V8s you're talking about would need to be completely re-built with much of the layout changed in order to be turbocharged, you can't just slap a turbo on anything. Do you think it's realistic to be taking a Group C engine, already running it's maximum real life power in GT, slap a "stage 3" turbo kit on it and suddenly have up to 1300hp?
Yes, yes you can. That sentence alone says you need to read up. You can turbo pretty much anything.
Would you like to see a beater on Youtube with a leaf-blower forced induction system? Yes it's real.
But I believe you've taken the liberty to deduce GT's upgrade system to "literal", which I don't disagree with, but it's a double standard you're pulling at best.
All the parts you need to adjust or replace to properly support a bigger turbo? They aren't listed for the road cars either.
So like I said earlier:
If you're trying to say GT's upgrade system is rubbish, you're right, but wording it poorly.
If you're trying to say someone couldn't increase boost, or fit a larger turbo on a real race car and increase power, it's silly nonsense.
Source? Also, I'm pretty sure that teams never bolted on different turbo kits for quali did they? Besides, at that power level the motor wouldn't be indestructible like in GT.
Do you see how this goes from talking about LMP's
I never said anything about a 900hp Super GT car being unrealistic, you've come up with that one. About Super GT, I used that series as an example of it being stupid to be able to upgrade a race car outside of the scope of it's regs and still enter it's championship.
to SuperGTand then jumps to 1,300HP engines without mentioning that you're suddenly talking about the LMP's again?
If 1300hp wasn't that much for those engines, they would have been running that power level. They weren't, they weren't even running the power level they have stock in GT for any endurance races, because they wouldn't last.
I wasn't talking about Super GT engines in the second paragraph, I thought it was obvious, but perhaps I should have clarified that. By talking about the 1300hp figure, I thought you'd know I was talking about the group C engines. If those could run that power reliably, they would have. Quite how you think I was talking about Super GT when saying "they weren't even running the power level they have stock in GT for any endurance races", I have no idea.
Probably easier to blame your mistake on someone else I suppose.
Read back through my posts, at no point did I talk about power levels in Super GT being unrealistic, I only ever mentioned them when talking about how it's stupid you can enter those series' in game with cars that have unrealistic mods. A 900hp Super GT car wouldn't be accepted into the series would it?
Yes at Le mans, they ran much lower power than you'll find stock in GT, for reliability reasons, so of course in quli they'd turn up the boost.
But yes, like I said, having wastegate control is a better way of controlling that, and the ability to damage an engine would prevent getting those power levels for long enough to use them in a race. How it is currently, you get an unrealistic and permanent power boost. It's also ridiculous to be able to fit a bigger turbo than those engines ran. They had turbo sizes very carefully chosen for the engines. Putting on a bigger turbo just increases the boost threashold, and gives you less rpm to work with. The turbos already on those engines will reach high enough boost levels to blow up the engine in short order, adding a bigger turbo gets you nothing but a higher boost threshold and more lag.
Also, I'm still waiting on the sources for these power figures.
You know, the one you asked someone else for, but haven't provided yourself?
All you're doing is taking a few of my posts out of context. The only time I spoke about Super GT was using it as an example of a series where you can upgrade the car and still go into the series. At no point did I say it's ridiculous to put a larger turbo on a turbocharged car, I said it's ridiculous to take highly strung turbo race cars like LMP1s or Group Cs, and slap on a "turbo kit", as those engines already have large turbos carefully selected for them.
Brakes.
Stop.
Eat.
Most turbo race engines have massive turbos already, so changing the turbo won't make the engine any more powerful.
You didn't say ridiculous, you called it unrealistic (
both for breaching regs and because bigger turbos don't add power, you say)
The main reason the old JGTC cars are my favourites still, because I'm a sucker for turbos. Aaaaanyway lol. That brings me back to the topic: If PD were to re-do as many standards as possible, and drop the rest, I hope they focus on race cars, like the aforementioned JGTC beasts. It'd suck to lose so many great race cars from the game, but I could deal with losing most of the standard road cars. I'd even happily lose my car from the game if it meant all the race cars got the premium treatment.
Edit: Just to clarify, I only mentioned JGTC cars as an example of standard race cars I'd like re-done as premium, I'm not favouring them over other standard race cars, and I do acknowledge the existence of premium JGTC cars already in the game. Just in case anyone needs that cleared up, would hate to offend lol.
The one. The only. On-topic.
Lol so having had your strawmen refuted, you resort to this attempt at being clever? Nice job man *slow clap*
Are you
You don't know what strawman means do you? Because it's not some insult that someone here coined...
Considering the rest of your post is full of even more strawmen, I'm guessing you don't have any idea. Stop making things up to argue against.
happy now?
