Ford Mustang/Chevy Camaro off?

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Toronado
The Camaro and Challenger are no more actual sports cars than the Mustang in the game is. The Challenger in particular is basically just a boulevard cruiser, with much softer tuning, way larger size and way more weight than the other two. All of the ones in the game are the top of the line model at the time, including the Mustang (though that depends on if you think the GT500 is part of the normal model range). It is just several years older than the other two.
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Fair enough. I'd always thought the Mustang was intended as a more workaday car with a wider product range than the Camaro in particular, which I thought was marketed more as a sports car with less variation in spec. I was commenting on the thread overall, and the OP, not claiming the Camaro is particularly good or better than an M3 or whatnot.

I hadn't realised that the Mustang was top of the range at the time, I just thought it was meant to be one of the more conservative versions and thus not really comparable, but I admit my knowledge of all the models is pretty limited :)
 
Tyger
Fair enough. I'd always thought the Mustang was intended as a more workaday car with a wider product range than the Camaro in particular, which I thought was marketed more as a sports car with less variation in spec. I was commenting on the thread overall, and the OP, not claiming the Camaro is particularly good or better than an M3 or whatnot.

I hadn't realised that the Mustang was top of the range at the time, I just thought it was meant to be one of the more conservative versions and thus not really comparable, but I admit my knowledge of all the models is pretty limited :)
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From '05-'09, Ford really just offered the GT and the base model.

There were different minor trims with different interior options and the like for both engines (Deluxe and Premium), but performance wise it was really just choosing between the V8 and V6 unless you decided to get a Shelby. The only exception to this was the limited edition Bullitt model Ford sold in 2008, which was basically the Shelby GT with different styling.
 
Toronado
From '05-'09, Ford really just offered the GT and the base model.

There were different minor trims with different interior options and the like for both engines (Deluxe and Premium), but performance wise it was really just choosing between the V8 and V6 unless you decided to get a Shelby. The only exception to this was the limited edition Bullitt model Ford sold in 2008, which was basically the Shelby GT with different styling.
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Technically the '08 Bullitt was the first model that allowed the owner to use any grade of gas from 87 and up octane levels safely. The ECU adjusted for what ever the octane level you were using and produced more HP/TQ if timing allowed based on octane.

This tech transferred over to recent models where you can get up to 10 HP more with higher octane, yet still drive safely with 87octane.
 
Okay, let me just simplify this cause it is going round and round.

Who thinks that in the real world the 2007 Mustang GT could compete with the 2010 Camaro SS? No, I don't want personal opinion. I want documented testing somewhere that says that.

As to how PD modeled the cars, I think PD's physics engine is off a bit, particularly when it comes to how they did the tires. I think all cars in the game are off a bit. But I see no reason to cry foul that GM bribed PD.
 
I was joking when I said GM bribed PD. But the facts are there that both models are off in game. Which is what my OP was about.
 
Vol Jbolaz
Okay, let me just simplify this cause it is going round and round.

Who thinks that in the real world the 2007 Mustang GT could compete with the 2010 Camaro SS? No, I don't want personal opinion. I want documented testing somewhere that says that.

As to how PD modeled the cars, I think PD's physics engine is off a bit, particularly when it comes to how they did the tires. I think all cars in the game are off a bit. But I see no reason to cry foul that GM bribed PD.
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As an owner of a very similar mustang in real life, I can say that the Camaro is faster. Been to the drag strip many times. Which one handles better I don't know. I highly doubt the GM bribed PD to make there car seem better.
 
LVracerGT
Morgoth - I don't think it's just wrong numbers. The Camaro in game has a rotation characteristic that is definitely rearward balance related.
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I respectfully disagree. To me it seems fairly neutral, with a bit of natural-feeling oversteer.

And as mentioned, it's most definitely nose-heavy when clearing those Trial Mountain rally jumps. (Notice my avatar... that landing hit hard enough on the front end to pop it straight back into the air for a nice wheelie.) :D
 
Finally found a standard Mustang GT after having to refresh the UCD for about 2 hours, and holy crap is it a night and day difference. Power comes on strong and the handling feels just right. Going to do some comparisons now.
 
I like all 3 cars described in the OP. I owned a 2008 M3. The last Mustang I had was a '66. Never owned a Camaro, but my wife did and she loved it.

In the game, the stock Camaro specs match the numbers provided in Road and Track, down to the gear ratios.

I made a ZL1 from a Premium Camaro matching HP,Torque, gears, weight and balance. I put it on Sports Medium tires and ran a 7:32 around Nurburgring. The GM test driver drove the real one around in 7:41. Doesn't really prove anything because I wasn't risking my life. By the way, I had to add 80 Kg to the stock Camaro SS because the ZL1 weighs that much more.

When properly setup and tuned to the same PP (I use 550 on SS tires), the Camaro is a match for the M3. The Mustang is a distant 3rd place in the (in game) competition.

But, I still enjoy racing all three cars.
 
I own a real 2006 Mustang GT.

Comments on the fictional 2007 below:
1) Stock, a 4.6 3v can rev to 7200 rpm without any serious issues, that is the absolute limit with the stock valvetrain. Its a SOHC 3 valve per cylinder engine, not a pushrod.

A built head would get you to upper 7000's. In this game, the '07 Mustang GT V8 Premium' does not even go over 6000 rpm.

2) The weight balance is a total joke.

3) The chassis on the 2005-09 and the 2010+ is basically exactly the same. The only real difference is the springs and struts. It should be out-handling the Camaro if both have the full race suspension setup.

4) The only good thing they did with this car was the model looks absolutely superb inside and out.

5) the 2005 GT (used car) is closer to how the 2007 should have been.
 
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Real life comment below:
Also, for those of you saying the 2005-09 Mustang handles terribly in real life, look at the 2011+ Boss 302's reviews. Its the same chassis (s197). The 05-09 Mustang handles incredibly with aftermarket springs, struts, swaybars, panhard bar, etc. Like all Mustangs, its all about upgrades. The S197 chassis mustang is the stiffest mustang chassis Ford has produced yet and was developed specifically for the 05+ Mustang alone, unlike the old foxbody/sn95 cars. Sure, stock handling sucks because the springs and struts are way too soft, and the stock tune sucks because its designed for 87 octane and fuel economy. These are both easily and cheaply fixed.
 
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Vol Jbolaz
Okay, let me just simplify this cause it is going round and round.

Who thinks that in the real world the 2007 Mustang GT could compete with the 2010 Camaro SS? No, I don't want personal opinion. I want documented testing somewhere that says that.

As to how PD modeled the cars, I think PD's physics engine is off a bit, particularly when it comes to how they did the tires. I think all cars in the game are off a bit. But I see no reason to cry foul that GM bribed PD.
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Nobody is saying it should. They are merely pointing out that the handling and performance characteristics of the '07 Mustang GT, in game, are way off and likewise the '10 Camaro SS is modeled as being unrealistically fast.

All that has been said is that the cars should be CLOSER in performance than they are.

What you seem to be blatantly ignorant of is that nobody, in the entire thread, ever said that the Mustang should be faster than the Camaro. :rolleyes:
 
So how do we go about getting PD to notice these cars need to be adjusted?

P.S. I haven't had time to test the standard vs premium yet. I'll probably do that tonight after work.
 
Toronado
From '05-'09, Ford really just offered the GT and the base model.

There were different minor trims with different interior options and the like for both engines (Deluxe and Premium), but performance wise it was really just choosing between the V8 and V6 unless you decided to get a Shelby. The only exception to this was the limited edition Bullitt model Ford sold in 2008, which was basically the Shelby GT with different styling.
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Even the Bullitt and Shelby were just GT's with an intake, a mild tune, and mufflers.

I also own a S197 Mustang and am angry over it's misrepresentation in the game.
 
S197 Conversion would be great for GT5 minus those rims. Takes cues for 1969 and 1970, but mainly 1969. The only thing 1970ish was the hood scoop. Some 1969 Boss 429 scoops in there too. [/offtopic]


retro2.jpg


01_retrobuiltboss302.jpg


12_retrobuiltboss302.jpg



As compared to the original.

69Boss302.jpg
 
Slashfan
S197 Conversion would be great for GT5 minus those rims. Takes cues for 1969 and 1970, but mainly 1969. The only thing 1970ish was the hood scoop. Some 1969 Boss 429 scoops in there too. [/offtopic]

As compared to the original.
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That's effin legit!
 
I hate people that don't like the Mustang. 👎
 
MustangCobra95
I hate people that don't like the Mustang. 👎
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Mankind often fears what it cannot understand.

Mustang ftw!
 
Well, didn't get to test last night as Daytona went till after freaking midnight. Got my drift comp tonight but I'll get the testing done eventually lol.
 
Now that we have a way to actually test these cars acceleration, we can see if there are any differences. I've always thought the 07 mustang felt weak in the game and now I know it to be true. I went to the dealer and purchased a new one. It showed 292 hp and I did not do an oil change because that would have put it over the actual advertised hp. Using comfort mediums, i never could get a good launch...and that is using clubsport pedals. It would either bog or shoot straight to the red line spinning the tires. With my best launches I was only getting 0-60 in the mid 6s and the quarter in the upper 15s. Next I wandered what it would do if it had ultimate grip. If it hooked off the line, I could see if the car is underpowered as I had thought it was. With all aids off and the only mod to the car being racing softs, the mustang (manual shifted right before the rev limiter, shifting earlier resulted in lower numbers) ran 0-60 in 5.77 0-100 in 14.91 and the quarter in 14.41. The real car ( numbers taken from Car and Driver's December 04 test of the 05 mustang gt) ran 0-60 in 5.2 0-100 in 13.2 and the quarter in 13.8. One of Motor Trend's tests has the mustang at 0-60 5.1 0-100 13.1 and the quarter in 13.5. I'm not going to get into the handling aspect of it but this proves that the 07 mustang in the game is way underpowered. It took racing softs and a 6000 rpm launch to get the best figures which were still about a half second to a full second slower than the real car.


The top speed was 155.7 which is odd because the real mustang gt was limited to 155. With only 300hp though, it probably couldn't get much higher. I've tried with all the sports tires as well and my numbers are similar to the racing softs.
 
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Glad you got some acceleration numbers. I just got done testing the standard Mustang GT vs the premium GT. Ran laps around Trial Mountain in my lounge by myself. Both cars were on comfort softs and no mods besides an oil change on both cars.

Standard - 309hp - 457PP
Premium - 307hp - 446PP

First off, the PP difference throws up a red flag. In the standard I turned a 1:44.409 best lap on two flying laps. I don't remember my time in the premium but it was almost 3 seconds slower doing nothing to either cars tuning or modification wise.

Next, I decided to have a look at the gear ratios because the premium Mustang GT obviously has the automatic trans ratios. When you shift into 4th gear you lose a TON of RPM. So I installed a racing transmission on the premium GT and matched the gear ratios as best as I could to the standard GT.

Lap times increased, but my best lap in the premium was still 1 second slower than the standard GT even after giving myself 2 extra flying laps pushing to try and grab an extra tenth or two.

BTW, both cars were driven with all aids off except ABS 1, and I use a DFGT.

Now here's where things get tricky. Like I've pointed out earlier, I have real life experience with how this car handles and neither the standard OR the premium get it right.

Standard - Seems to have the right amount of front end grip, but lacks power on oversteer that the real car so willing submits to.

Premium - Has massive front end grip issues, but does give you the power on oversteer that a Mustang GT should.

So, it seems (to me) that PD needs to take the two cars and merge the two traits from each one to make the Mustang GT what it should be in the game. Now as for the Camaro...........
 
Not sure what that video is supposed to prove? The STi is lighter, has awd, and has Brembo brakes. Not a fair comparison.
 
The Shelby in the video above is not really a Shelby. Seriously. Its a overpriced GT with a bad tune and bad intake. The modern GT350 was a joke. Wish they never named the GT500 a Shelby as well. Carrol Shelby's input in these cars was purely branding. Also LOL at the Walmart comment. I guess everyone that owns mustangs is a redneck that goes to Walmart huh?
 
LVracerGT
Not sure what that video is supposed to prove? The STi is lighter, has awd, and has Brembo brakes. Not a fair comparison.
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0:48 "They cost about the same."
 
LVracerGT
Not sure what that video is supposed to prove? The STi is lighter, has awd, and has Brembo brakes. Not a fair comparison.
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Take a look at his avatar.
 
LVracerGT
has awd, and has Brembo brakes. Not a fair comparison.
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For handling, AWD just mostly adds understeer. Brembo brakes not fair?? So subaru should have been given poor brakes to make it fair for the mustang :)
 
Raitziger
For handling, AWD just mostly adds understeer. Brembo brakes not fair?? So subaru should have been given poor brakes to make it fair for the mustang :)
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It depends on car balance and awd setup. Subarus are very well balanced. And where do you people keep coming up with these ludicrous statements? Did I say the subi should not have brembos? No. I said it's not a fair comparison because of the

A: grip the subi has from awd
B: lighter
C: brembo brakes

the only reason they were tested together was the price range. Those two cars were not built to target each other. They are two different categories.

Let's not forget this thread is about the mustang and camaro being misrepresented in GT5. So refrain from posting anything else off topic.
 
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