Ford Mustang VS Chevrolet Camaro

[YSSMAN]

'68 is probably the least overhyped year of damn near every American car built in the decade. It's like that year didn't exist in most circumstances, and I find that incredibly strange.

Maybe it is because '69 was the highest year for horsepower output in most vehicles? The pinnacle of style? The last threads of the radical 1960's?

I don't think it is just an American thing, but of that I cannot be completly certain.

 

[xXSilencerXx]

Just to talk about the Firebird for a moment, it really was a great car. Although my Dad hated them (he reguards them as overpriced, overdressed Camaros, he owns a '68 327 street Camaro), I still like them quite a bit. The Firebirds were dressed up, I've always agreed with him on that, but I don't think it made much of a difference.

I always thought of the Pontiac as bein more dressed up than Chevy in general. It dosen't bother me though.

As for the Firebirds of my time (3rd and 4th gen models), it pretty much is trivial to find the differences between the two F-Bodies. The Firebird was argueably better looking in 3rd Gen specs (think "Knight Rider") and had some faster models (think GTA, Anniversary Turbo), but as far as 4th Gen goes, it's all Camaro.

I'd agree that for the first years of the 4th generation the Camaro looked better. After they updated the front end I like the Firebird much more than the ugly headlights they put on the Camaro, hence which is why I bought a Trans Am instead.

 

[JCE]

none of the above.

68 (not 69, overhyped especially its camaro brethren!!!) firebird.

Didn't you even read my first post?

The Firebird/Trans-Am is not included in this topic nor is any other car. Same rules as the Lamborghini VS Ferrari thread, no saying "neither, give me 'X'".

^ ^ ^

Shame on you.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

Pontiac's have always been slightly nicer, dressed up, higher quality, more expensive Chevy's (for all that have a sister model)

 

[Steeda]

period.

 

[JCE]

Steeda pretty much said it all with only 1 word and 1 picture. (I guess that equals 1001 words ) It's tied 15 to 15...I guess it is pretty much even. I would argue however that most of the Camaro or Mustang voters do like the other one--just not as much. At least that's my feeling.

Ok how about this, post your favorite specific model of the one you voted for and why you chose it.

For me I guess it'd have to be 1968 Shelby GT500KR fastback with second place being the 2004 Cobra.

 

[a6m5]

Don't laugh. This was one of my childhood favorite cars.

It was so hard to find a picture of this car without trailer home or bunch of guys holding beer cans around it.

 

[YSSMAN]

1) 1969 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 in Polar White with Ebony Stripes

2) 2002 Berger Chevrolet Camaro SS 430 in Huggar Orange with Polar White Stripes

 

[LeadSlead#2]

a6m5 - Beautiful

1997 Trans... wait, we're still stuck on camaro's and mustang's only?

then I guess a 97 Camaro SS... followed by a6m5's or any 69

 

[xXSilencerXx]

I love the 69' Camaro RS/SS, Artic White with Hugger Orange stripes.

Then I like the 96' SS Camaron in black.

And of course that Camro A6m5 put up there.

 

[JCE]

Don't laugh. This was one of my childhood favorite cars.

It was so hard to find a picture of this car without trailer home or bunch of guys holding beer cans around it.

Here's what my Camaro looked like (pics from ebay and not of my EXACT car) before I stripped it's interior and sprayed it flat black primer (never actually got to paint it before I sold it to my brother). Oh and the exhaust was different, I installed '97 Z28 exhaust on mine.

 

[a6m5]

Damn, JCE. You actually used to own one. Your stock just went up again. 👍 I'm surprised I'm not getting laughed at for my pick. 👍(again) Not a popular pick amongst my buddies or coworkers.

a6m5 - Beautiful

Thank you. Oh, you mean the Camaro. Yes, I agree.

Edit:
P.S. Don't tell JCE, but I agree with you guys about the Firebirds. If Firebird was in the poll, you bet your @$$ my pick would be an Firebird.

 

[JCE]

Damn, JCE. You actually used to own one. Your stock just went up again. 👍 I'm surprised I'm not getting laughed at for my pick. 👍(again) Not a popular pick amongst my buddies or coworkers.


Thank you. Oh, you mean the Camaro. Yes, I agree.

Edit:
P.S. Don't tell JCE, but I agree with you guys about the Firebirds. If Firebird was in the poll, you bet your @$$ my pick would be an Firebird.

I enjoyed owning it, it was 100% stock but it was a blast to drive. I used to love it when it rained...for obvious reasons. I actually prefer the IROC and 1991-1992 Z28 over the 4th gen 1993-2002. I just like the bodystyle better. My brother (who now owns my old Camaro) in the process or restoring the interior and he's about to rebuild the engine and add...as he puts it..."a couple of big ass turbos". I told him to convert it to a TPI before he turbos it--or just install a blower to the TBI that it's currently got. Currently the car has 190,000~191,000 miles on the original engine--only thing that's been done to it was change 2-3 alternators, 2 water pumps, and clean out the stock throttle body of any debris. Otherwise it still runs great and could last over 200k if he chooses. But we're almost done with the MR2 and he'll be driving it to work and the Camaro will be garaged.

Oh and if Firebird/Trans-Am WAS in this discussion I would of picked it over the Camaro. =P But its not so we can't.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

but you're the thread starter/ why didnt you include it, or list it as a brethren of the Camaro. Carmaro/Firebird?

 

[JCE]

but you're the thread starter/ why didnt you include it, or list it as a brethren of the Camaro. Carmaro/Firebird?

Because for over 30 years the Pony wars were Mustang vs Camaro and not Mustang vs F-body.

 

[Jim Prower]

Niether. AMC Javelin.

Because, frankly, I think it looked better than the Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, or 'Cuda. that, and, I'm never one to follow a crowd.

However, i'll take the 'stang, for it's role in "Bullitt."

 

[Onikaze]

You have to appreciate that in a Mustang versus Camaro thread, it hasn't devolved into flaming.

One of the more friendly rivalries.

The only Camaro I wish I had, would be the one my psycho dad killed himself in, a black 1980 Camaro that had been built up for drag racing, nitrous hook ups, a 383 with quad holley's, and it had been built from the block up with all the nice go fast goodies.

Sounded wicked, looked cool, and only had 1 speed, too damn fast.

When my dad killed himself, the police officer on the scene estimated the crash speed at 160 Mph, given that he went a 1/4 mile from the road he started on to that railroad trestle, that suggests something like a 10 second 1/4 car.

 

[Master_Yoda]

2 Different people at my school owns those! One red, one blue..

 

[JCE]

You have to appreciate that in a Mustang versus Camaro thread, it hasn't devolved into flaming.

One of the more friendly rivalries.

Which is a good thing. I'd probably say that even if you voted for one you still like the other enough not to hate it viamently. 👍

 

[YSSMAN]

There was a point at which I loathed the Mustang in all of it's forms, but after GM axed the F-Body twins, I had to appreciate what I had. Thus, the Mustang is okay, but it certainly is not my favorite.

...But, I still think Ford could do more with the car. Atleast GM will have quite a few optional engines on the new Camaro, not just two with the Mustang. Added to that, they should be able to squeeze more power out of the engines as well, but as of yet, nothing has happened.

But, alas, the old 4.6 (from what I understand) may be replaced by the Aussie Boss 290 V8 (read 5.4L V8 from the Excursion) next year to make a faster Mustang to compete with the new Challengers, Camaros, GTOs, Monte Carlos, etc.

 

[JCE]

But, alas, the old 4.6 (from what I understand) may be replaced by the Aussie Boss 290 V8 (read 5.4L V8 from the Excursion) next year to make a faster Mustang to compete with the new Challengers, Camaros, GTOs, Monte Carlos, etc.

That's one reason why Shelby stuffed the 5.4L in the GT500, I think it's a better engine for the Mustang--even though I LOVE the 4.6L in all it's underpowered glory (I'm being serious actually). The sound it puts out has to warm your heart. If the '07 or '08 Mustang gets the 5.4L you can count on the numbers getting significantly better...and I do mean significantly. 0-60 times below 5 seconds..and horsepower nearing 400bhp if not right at or over. Ford already puts the 5.4L in several trucks as well as the Ford GT so maybe secretly they are working more on R&D for that engine platform than the 4.6L. Just a guess...

 

[a6m5]

I'm no expert, but I think Ford should stick with 4.6L. With the gas prices getting higher and higher, I don't know how many Mustang buyers are looking for bigger V-8. With the two engine lineup, it should also keep the cost down, I would think.

 

[JCE]

The difference is not that much...Ford needs DOD with these V8's THAT would make a difference. I still think Ford should stick with the 4.6L but just increase the performance while adding DOD.

 

[YSSMAN]

Ford, I presume, would keep the 4.6L as an option in the GT, but they would create a model positioned above it that is equipped with the BOSS 290 V8. There has been plenty of talk about the return of the Bullitt, Mach 1, and BOSS Mustangs, thus I presume would be the introduction of the BOSS 290 in the US.

That said, it still does not make a full 400 BHP, I belive the conversion puts it at a respectable 380 BHP. But given the Mustang's lower weight (presumably) compared to the next-gen Camaro and next-gen Challenger, the 20 BHP deficit shouldn't play a huge role in what happens with the car's performance.

But, with gas prices looming overhead, it may not happen. But there is a very simple solution. Either Ford gets to work on something similar to DOD/AFM/MDI, or they stick an extra cog in the transmission. If you can get 30 MPG on an old LS1-powered F-Body with the T-56, there is no reason why you couldn't do the same with the "more efficent" 4.6L matched to a T-56.

 

[JCE]

I'd go even further and have a 6spd Auto tranny as well. I would think the inclusion of different trims other than V6 and GT would actually benefit potential buyers as it would offer them more of a choice to what they want. If they added those Bullitt, Mach, and Boss Mustang trims with more fuel saving engines I would expect the sales of the Mustang to actually INCREASE. Oh and I for one want the new Ford 3.5L V6 they are putting in the next gen Fusion and Five Hundred in the V6 trim. It's presumably going to have 250bhp+. Ford really needs to ditch the 4.0L V6 or reengineer it to have DOD and more power. 210bhp from 4.0L is rediculously low and frankly embarrasing in my opinion.

 

[a6m5]

I guess down the line, it's inevitable. They all do something to spice their aging vehicles up.

 

[YSSMAN]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ford ditch the old 4.0L V6, but it is part of what keeps costs low on the Mustang. Thats why they only modified the 4.6L just a bit and did not introduce a whole new engine here in the US.

The notion of a six-speed automatic gearbox in a Ford is an interesting one, as they did recently go through a development with GM on a new 6-speed automatic program for both companies. I know one result was the 6T70E automatic that will be seeing duty in all of the new Saturns, but unfortunately for the Mustang, the transmission was designed only to be used as a transverse setup only.

...Even then, the transmission is only rated up to 300 BHP by Ford (GM rates it to 315, Ha ha!), so even if it was modified to fit the Mustang, reliability would be questionable in the long-run.

 

[JCE]

Simple solution...add a beefier flywheel and clutch. Problem solved? The Five Hundred currently has a 6spd Auto box--which is a good one by the way--so I don't think it's too far fetched for Ford to actually drop it in more saloons...but they may opt out for the CVT box that's in the Fusion. As long as they don't put that in the Mustang I'd be ok with Ford using CVT auto boxes. Thoughts on the CVT YSS?

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm not a fan of CVT myself, but I've only had a few expiriences with the setup myself. I drove an Ion that had the CVT transmission, and it was just strange having the car sit at 2300 RPM while it gained speed, and then having it drop off to the point where it was like the engine wassent running.

Yes, it is supposed to save fuel, but I haven't seen any solid evidence that it does so. Added to that, CVT's are supposed to be harder to operate in cold-weather, so living in Michigan, that wouldn't float my boat either.

I would think Ford would be able to produce something similar to the GM 6L80E for their new cars and trucks, but it seems like they are caught in the 4/5 speed rut that GM was stuck in for so long. But given Ford's history of transmissions, we will have to see what happens...

 

[JCE]

It takes a bit to get used to the CVT, especially when you floor it and it holds the RPMs utill you let off the accelerator pedal. But I've talked to a few Fusion and Freestyle owners who tell me that they get over what the window sticker says by 5~6mpg. Hell you see the pic of me on the freeway in a Freestyle? I can't remember how fast I was going on cruise control but I think it was 70~75mph.

Anyway back on topic...how much is the new Camaro supposed to weigh?