Formula 1 2013 Season Opener Melbourne 17th March

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Milouse
We've got TV audience results for France, and things are ugly: compared to same GP last year, audience has been cut by a factor of 4. Ecclestone just moved TV rights from the leading and access-free channel (TF1) to the benefit of a pay-tv channel (Canal +, which pays even less than previous contract). It looks like the man is getting what he deserves.
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Same case across most of Europe, it seems like more and more TV stations are going to the pay-to-view model. Made me really sad this weekend when I realised I couldn't watch the first race of the season live. It's not really a season opener if you can't watch it! :indiff:

That said, it was a pretty good race, intriguing at least. It was fun to see Hamilton defending hard and in a fresh environment, and Kimi was superb. Where was Grosjean?
 
Jibaholic
I'm just a newbie but I have to say that I don't understand why many commentators are blaming the car rather than the driver for tire degradation.

Suppose Vettel drove with an average slip angle of 8 degrees. Then dropping down to 6 degrees would save his tires at the expense of slightly slower lap times. I don't see how car setup figured in. How can the car be setup to have less tire wear when it's driven just as aggressively?
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I agree but I think its a bit more detailed than that - Vettel was tending to race quite close to the car(s) in front, especially Sutil. Driving within a second or so of the car in front is driving into their wake (the same wake that allows slipstreaming) which takes away air flow and hence downforce. This means Vettel has to compensate and turn the car more as it understeers from this. That said, when you've got Alonso right on your tail, its not exactly easy to conserve tyres but keep ahead...

We saw early on that while Raikkonen was tending to catch the leading cars pretty quick, he held back from getting within a second of them and saved his tyres. I think this was partly why he won the race and Vettel didn't.

But the cars are also part of the equation. It could be that the Red Bulls are burning up their tyres more than other teams, not through driving style but also through setup.

For an example of this, look at Mercedes last year. They were consistently burning up their tyres quicker than everyone else. Thats a fundamental problem of the car, not driving styles. You'd expect drivers of Schumachers and Rosberg's calibur to be able to adapt and not over-work the tyres.

I don't think Vettel is incapable of smart driving but I think that perhaps in that race it was a bit of both - a car hard on its tyres and a driver not really looking after them as well as he could.

There are plenty of things the teams can do to set the cars up for less tyre wear - using less camber or toe, running softer suspension settings, reducing brake bias, etc. Not to mention some cars just have an inherent design problem that can cause more or less tyre wear, as I said you had Mercedes being hard on its tyres last year (apparently the exhaust was blowing onto the tyres and over-heating them) whereas Sauber were notoriously good on their tyres.
 
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Jibaholic
I'm just a newbie but I have to say that I don't understand why many commentators are blaming the car rather than the driver for tire degradation.

Suppose Vettel drove with an average slip angle of 8 degrees. Then dropping down to 6 degrees would save his tires at the expense of slightly slower lap times. I don't see how car setup figured in. How can the car be setup to have less tire wear when it's driven just as aggressively?
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Different alignments and suspension set-ups will result in different wear rates, even with the same driving style. And while a driver could always drive a little less aggressively, there's a fine line between driving slow enough to preserve the tires and driving so slowly the other guy builds up a big enough margin to pit and stay in front of you.
 
Eric Bouiller (Lotus manager) said before the race on Canal + (french TV has a close relationship with Lotus, with assigned commentator inside the team during GP) that their cars is less demanding on tires and that they were going to try a two-pitstop race that other teams wouldn't be able to do. So i don't think other drivers are to blame here.
They pit Grosjean earlier to try to get him out of heavy traffic, despite he had preserved his tires during Q3 with just one timed lap.
 
SimonK
If Vettel wins the next 18 races so be it, I just meant we don't need to see that sort of biased, childish drivel in these threads.
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It's not biast or childish. It's people's opinions. You have yet to grasp that.
 
SimonK
If Vettel wins the next 18 races so be it, I just meant we don't need to see that sort of biased, childish drivel in these threads.
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True. It's fans being fans though. As a Bulls fan, Miami is the RBR of the NBA.

Vettel and RBR may have made the sport somewhat dull, it's still commending that they have found ways to stay ahead of everyone else for the past three years.
 
05XR8
Don't rule out Honda coming back with McLaren for 2014 :)
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Na it probably wont happen, all reports I've seen are saying that if Honda comes back it's gonna be in 2015 and not in 2014.

Milouse : Did you find it strange also that we didnt hear any word from Montagny in the late part of the race ? Do you think it was Lotus telling him to not reveal anything ? I found him super quite during the last half of the GP. Also Villeneuve is useless as a commentator, my god he sucks. Lafitte and Moncet were miles ahead as technical commentator, they had lots of inside info with lots of team.
 
05XR8
Don't rule out Honda coming back with McLaren for 2014 :)
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With Mclaren they always seem to find ways to underachieve. Save for Hammy's title in 2008, the trophy room has too many silver and bronzes for all the talent that they have. However, I'm interested if Mclaren-Honda can whip up memories of the 80s.
 
Finally got around to posting my opinions on the race.

Looking forward to a brilliant season. I think that lotus, Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull all easily have the potential to win the championship. Kimi drove a flawless race and that is what I think will do him well this season, he very rarely makes mistakes and isn't flustered by them when he does. Last year he got 3rd position with a car that wasn't really up there simply because of this consistency.
 
sumbrownkid
Vettel and RBR may have made the sport somewhat dull, it's still commending that they have found ways to stay ahead of everyone else for the past three years.
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How so? 2011 was a bit of a procession for Vettel, but 2010 and 2012 went down to the final race. If Vettel had have broken down in Brazil in either of those years, we would be talking about a 1 or 2 time champion.

4 Drivers in with a shot at the last race in 2010.
7 different winners to start 2012.

If that is dull, then I cant wait for an interesting year.
 
sumbrownkid
With Mclaren they always seem to find ways to underachieve. Save for Hammy's title in 2008, the trophy room has too many silver and bronzes for all the talent that they have. However, I'm interested if Mclaren-Honda can whip up memories of the 80s.
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I think sometimes people forget just how close McLaren came to slipping into permanent mediocraty in the mid 1990s. After Senna left in 1993 McLaren, went through a major barren spell in which a young and inexperienced Mika Hakkinen was left to lead the team almost on his own. Peugeot engines gave Brundle no chance in 1994, and an overweight Mansell overshadowed the beginning of the Mercedes alliance in 1995. No race wins or pole positions at all for McLaren in 1994, 1995 or 1996. They scored as few as 30 points in 1995.

They've done exceptionally well since 1997 to even be race winners let alone have three drivers and a constructors championship, and maintain relative pace to Ferrari during the Schumacher era. For my money, Dennis and Newey were the stars behind it all and McLaren have faltered somewhat since both have either taken steps back or left the team, but they've been a solid front running team once again for about fifteen years now, which is good for them and for the sport.
 
RX-7_FD3S
Milouse : Did you find it strange also that we didnt hear any word from Montagny in the late part of the race ? Do you think it was Lotus telling him to not reveal anything ? I found him super quite during the last half of the GP. Also Villeneuve is useless as a commentator, my god he sucks. Lafitte and Moncet were miles ahead as technical commentator, they had lots of inside info with lots of team.
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I didn't paid too much attention to Franck Montagny, he's still not good as playing to the journalist, and doesn't know yet where and when to get usefull information.
Villeneuve is a consultant, it provided a few useful anecdotes, but it is the job to the main commentator to "initite" his consultant. Speaking about him, he's missing a lot of events during race and qualifications. And the couple is almost sterile when it comes to give an analytic lecture of the race. But i can't regret Jacques Laffite, who was terrible. I can't count the number of times he shown us how he can be totally incapable of projecting driver positions during a race based on ongoing strategies (like ignoring that a pilot would have to pit stop, or the opposite). And the worse was when it gives his opinion on race incidents. He saw 50-50 responsibilities everywhere, even between Grosjean and Hamilton at SPA start o_O

One good commentator consultant was Alain Prost in the mid-90's - he even understood before anyone else around him how bad Senna crash was at Imola, and did know how to explain it.
 
Liquid
I think sometimes people forget just how close McLaren came to slipping into permanent mediocraty in the mid 1990s. After Senna left in 1993 McLaren, went through a major barren spell in which a young and inexperienced Mika Hakkinen was left to lead the team almost on his own. Peugeot engines gave Brundle no chance in 1994, and an overweight Mansell overshadowed the beginning of the Mercedes alliance in 1995. No race wins or pole positions at all for McLaren in 1994, 1995 or 1996. They scored as few as 30 points in 1995.

They've done exceptionally well since 1997 to even be race winners let alone have three drivers and a constructors championship, and maintain relative pace to Ferrari during the Schumacher era. For my money, Dennis and Newey were the stars behind it all and McLaren have faltered somewhat since both have either taken steps back or left the team, but they've been a solid front running team once again for about fifteen years now, which is good for them and for the sport.
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It's also easy to forget that McLaren have been a privateer for the last 3 or so years. They don't have the seemingly unlimited backing that Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes have. It wouldn't surprise me if McLaren slowly descended into the midfield like Williams did after BMW left. Obviously it's not quite the same, McLaren have their finger in far more pies than Williams and have better corporate relationships (and richer ownership), but parallels can be drawn. McLaren need to be careful with maintaining strong sponsorship, because if they fall it will be very hard to get back up.
 
SagarisGTB
It's also easy to forget that McLaren have been a privateer for the last 3 or so years. They don't have the seemingly unlimited backing that Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes have. It wouldn't surprise me if McLaren slowly descended into the midfield like Williams did after BMW left. Obviously it's not quite the same, McLaren have their finger in far more pies than Williams and have better corporate relationships (and richer ownership), but parallels can be drawn. McLaren need to be careful with maintaining strong sponsorship, because if they fall it will be very hard to get back up.
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Exactly. The next few years will be crucial for McLaren if they are going to maintain their place as a major contender, due to the fact that they are not in as luxurious a position as their major competitors. This is the only point I was trying to make when someone rudely accused me of "seeing races everyone missed" and "jumping to conclusions" -__-
 
Milouse
One good commentator consultant was Alain Prost in the mid-90's - he even understood before anyone else around him how bad Senna crash was at Imola, and did know how to explain it.
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Holy **** man, I had no idea of that. Just to confirm: Prost was providing commentary coverage for the weekend Roland and Ayrton died?
 
Wardez
Holy **** man, I had no idea of that. Just to confirm: Prost was providing commentary coverage for the weekend Roland and Ayrton died?
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Yes he was.
During a commented Imola lap (from car with radio) he did for TV the saturday and broadcasted just before the race, we heard Senna say "I miss you Alain" from his cockpit. It felt like if the man has the blues.
 
DegenThought
Exactly. The next few years will be crucial for McLaren if they are going to maintain their place as a major contender, due to the fact that they are not in as luxurious a position as their major competitors. This is the only point I was trying to make when someone rudely accused me of "seeing races everyone missed" and "jumping to conclusions" -__-
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Now that they are selling there own production cars surely they're effectively a works team now??

As a Ferrari fan I hope McLaren stay competitive as that will always be the biggest rivalry in F1
 
Sure, but McLaren production sales numbers are a joke compared to say Ferrari or Mercedes. Still, they're a big name in the sport, I'm sure they will find a way to remain competitive, Whitmarsh just has a lot of crucial decisions to make that must be made well.

As a McLaren fan, I hope they stay competitive too :D
 
DegenThought
Sure, but McLaren production sales numbers are a joke compared to say Ferrari or Mercedes.
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Well they only have 3 production cars. 2 of which are in limited production :sly:
 

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