Formula 1 Aramco Großer Preis Der Eifel 2020Formula 1 

  • Thread starter Jimlaad43
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Not sure if half asleep or uneventful race. Congrats to Lewis on his 91st. Great race by Ricciardo.

McLaren drops to... 4th? Ah well. Solid drive by Sainz.

Would've liked to have seen Hulk place higher.
 
Danny on the podium has made this race worth it for me. Well done! Congrats to Lewis for his 91st win and equalling a legend on wins....and Hulk finishing in the points despite starting dead last...awesome drive!!
 
Good race. Most wins with the most dominant car ever don't mean much in my opinion.
It would be amazing to see Verstappen driving a Mercedes alongside Hamilton, but that's never gonna happen.
 
Samus
Yes? What great drivers haven't been in the best cars?
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LordExia
Hasn't it been the case for every single champions/best drivers that we've seen in F1?
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Just in the turbo hybrid era, Ricciardo, Verstappen, Alonso, LeClerc. And no one can argue that they weren’t good enough for Mercedes. Merc just wanted a clear number 2 in Bottas. The talent pool in F1 is much wider than the spread of car performance meaning the best possible drivers don’t necessarily get the breaks they deserve.
 
Fudman420
So then Schumachers wins dont mean that much either since he was in the most dominant car of his era? Smh
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Not even close to the level of Mercedes dominance though. That’s just the facts. Yes Schumachers numbers were bloated, but Hamilton’s numbers are bloated even moreso

I realized that most of you probably think that I’m just a Hamilton hater, but I think he is a very talented driver. I just don’t think he’s 91 wins and 7 championships talented. Had it not been for Mercedes, he would maybe have 2-3 championships max.
 
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FutureF1
Just in the turbo hybrid era, Ricciardo, Verstappen, Alonso, LeClerc. And no one can argue that they weren’t good enough for Mercedes. Merc just wanted a clear number 2 in Bottas. The talent pool in F1 is much wider than the spread of car performance meaning the best possible drivers don’t necessarily get the breaks they deserve.
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Well they're still in top teams, obviously in the current circumstances of Merc dominance then everyone can not literally have the best car now, but they've had the best car in the past or will in the future. That's what Martin meant, the best drivers don't stay in the midfield and backmarker cars even though many start there. Average drivers do.
 
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FutureF1
Just in the turbo hybrid era, Ricciardo, Verstappen, Alonso, LeClerc. And no one can argue that they weren’t good enough for Mercedes. Merc just wanted a clear number 2 in Bottas. The talent pool in F1 is much wider than the spread of car performance meaning the best possible drivers don’t necessarily get the breaks they deserve.
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Wait what? Dany Ric and Charles are good drivers but to call them great is an opinion and overstatement imo. Verstappen is on the edge of greatness but has no titles. Alonso won his titles in the best car that year.
 
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Samus
Well they're still in top teams, obviously in the current circumstances of Merc dominance then everyone can not literally have the best car now, but they've had the best car in the past or will in the future. That's what Martin meant, the best drivers don't stay in the midfield and backmarker cars even though many start there. Average drivers do.
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Then that’s fair, but in the past 6 years (dear god it’s been that long), there has only been one top team, and a lot of talent has gone to waste because of it. Mercedes drivers have had their numbers bloated while the rest of the field had had stats ruined. They are no longer indicative of driver talent imo.
 
FutureF1
Then that’s fair, but in the past 6 years (dear god it’s been that long), there has only been one top team, and a lot of talent has gone to waste because of it. Mercedes drivers have had their numbers bloated while the rest of the field had had stats ruined. They are no longer indicative of driver talent imo.
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Sure, stats will never, ever be a true indicator of driver skill, most big fans know this. Some drivers are far better than their stats suggest, vice versa for others. It's just the way it is, but that still doesn't take away the achievement of 91 wins. Even with the best car, there aren't that many drivers who could've done it.
 
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FutureF1
Not even close to the level of Mercedes dominance though. That’s just the facts. Yes Schumachers numbers were bloated, but Hamilton’s numbers are bloated even moreso

I realized that most of you probably think that I’m just a Hamilton hater, but I think he is a very talented driver. I just don’t think he’s 91 wins and 7 championships talented. Had it not been for Mercedes, he would maybe have 2-3 championships max.
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The greatest all-around drivers in F1 history were Fangio, Clark, and Prost. And I will defend that comment until the sun engulfs the earth.

Lewis is top 10, but not the GOAT. He’s about the level of Lauda or Stewart.
 
FutureF1
Just in the turbo hybrid era, Ricciardo, Verstappen, Alonso, LeClerc. And no one can argue that they weren’t good enough for Mercedes. Merc just wanted a clear number 2 in Bottas. The talent pool in F1 is much wider than the spread of car performance meaning the best possible drivers don’t necessarily get the breaks they deserve.
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You said that as though those guys are currently struggling in teams that are at the back of the grid. Also why is it a problem with Mercedes wanting a clear #2 in Bottas? As an F1 fan, while i agree that it's robbing us of some excitement (i.e having Danny in that seat since he's my favorite driver) but let's not forget that at the end of the day Mercedes is entitled to choose who they want in their cars. Besides, why would they drop the guy when he is putting in performances that is good enough to keep them winning the constructor championship even if he is not as exceptional as Lewis? Lastly, I'm not sure about Ricciardo, but doesn't both Verstappen and Leclerc have multi year deal with their teams? That tells me that it was their choice to be where they are.

Samus
Sure, stats will never, ever be a true indicator of driver skill, most big fans know this. Some drivers are far better than their stats suggest, vice versa for others. It's just the way it is, but that still doesn't take away the achievement of 91 wins. Even with the best car, there aren't that many drivers who could've done it.
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If you listen to people talking about racing in F1 lately, you'd believe that all you need to win 91 races is to just be in a dominant car. You don't even need to drive it, you just have to sit in it and the car will automatically get you 1st to the finish line :rolleyes::lol:
 
Frank McGank
The greatest all-around drivers in F1 history were Fangio, Clark, and Prost. And I will defend that comment until the sun engulfs the earth.

Lewis is top 10, but not the GOAT. He’s about the level of Lauda or Stewart.
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Comparing drivers across those eras is just silly. They might both have been called Formula 1 but the skills and mindset required to drive and race cars in 1950 and today could not be much more different. They have four wheels and a steering wheel, the similarities pretty much end there.

Also curious, did you watch Fangio and Clark race yourself? We have far, far more footage and data to analyse today than we did for those drivers.
 
-Fred-
Ah yes, the great argument used to put down Hamilton's achievements, by people that never saw Schumacher race. Because Rubens "Let Michael pass for the championship" Barrichello had obvious clear pretentions at not being #2.
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I also disagree with the notion anyway, they didn't want a clear number two the same as Ferrari did, they wanted a driver who could compete with Hamilton cleanly and fairly. They would have been perfectly happy if Bottas had won two or three championships since he signed, so long as he did it without crashing into Hamilton every few races, and all the other stuff that came along with HAM vs ROS.

I think that is a clear difference to signing someone who you clearly want to play second fiddle, and I don't believe they did that.
 
Six races remaining and only three drivers are still mathematically in the title fight.
 
FutureF1
Had it not been for Mercedes, he would maybe have 2-3 championships max.
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He's won every championship sitting in front of a Mercedes. Your "what if" is so stupendously far out that it requires a re-imaginining of the entire last 15 years of F1. In such a reimagining I agree anything could (have) happen(ed), but what a meaningless exercise it would be.
 
Hopefully Renault will provide Alonso with a car capable of regular podiums if not the occasion win next season.

Ocon isn't quite pulling his weight compared to Danny.

McLaren had bad luck with Norris, he drove well.

The season is over, Ham will win.

Bottas sucks, Albon sucks.
 
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Samus
Comparing drivers across those eras is just silly. They might both have been called Formula 1 but the skills and mindset required to drive and race cars in 1950 and today could not be much more different. They have four wheels and a steering wheel, the similarities pretty much end there.

Also curious, did you watch Fangio and Clark race yourself? We have far, far more footage and data to analyse today than we did for those drivers.
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They were about 40 years before my time. All I can go on is statistics, recaps of their races and seasons, and the statements and observations made by their contemporaries. Fangio had a win average of about 50% in an era where half his rivals would be driving the same car as him, and Clark managed a mathematically perfect season in a car that wasn’t the fastest on the grid.
 
Frank McGank
They were about 40 years before my time. All I can go on is statistics, recaps of their races and seasons, and the statements and observations made by their contemporaries. Fangio had a win average of about 50% in an era where half his rivals would be driving the same car as him, and Clark managed a mathematically perfect season in a car that wasn’t the fastest on the grid.
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Also they could die everytime they got into the car because of safety.
I have a hard time comparing era and drivers because each of eras were so much different, but the old school drivers have the utmost respect from me because they knew each time they got in the car that if they had an accident it could mean their death.
 

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