Formula 1 Cracks down on modding community

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From what, a harmless group of die hard fans who in no way make ANY financial gain from something as simple as making a replica of a team car?
What about a studio like Codemasters? They're relatively small by industry standards, and pretty much rely on the Formula One licence to stay in business. That "harmless group of die hard fans" creating replicas and making them available for free puts the ninety or so jobs at Codemasters in jeopardy.
 
What about a studio like Codemasters? They're relatively small by industry standards, and pretty much rely on the Formula One licence to stay in business. That "harmless group of die hard fans" creating replicas and making them available for free puts the ninety or so jobs at Codemasters in jeopardy.
Without concrete data to go on, it's a stretch to say that one threatens the other. If the people who download F1 mods for free wouldn't have purchased CM's F1 game anyways, it hardly matters. Otherwise, free content doesnt threaten a priced game since its not taking money out of the License holders pocket.

I imagine the amount of business lost by F1 mods is slim to none. But the creators and mod hosters should've known this would happen again, shame on them.
 
The usual self-righteous entitlement nonsense that tends to surround issues pertaining to intellectual property and the right to protect it, I see.

It appears I'm with you on this one @prisonermonkeys. Thank you for taking the stance that far too few choose to even genuinely look at, let alone adopt.
 
What about a studio like Codemasters? They're relatively small by industry standards, and pretty much rely on the Formula One licence to stay in business. That "harmless group of die hard fans" creating replicas and making them available for free puts the ninety or so jobs at Codemasters in jeopardy.

And you have the data to support this?

The usual self-righteous entitlement nonsense that tends to surround issues pertaining to intellectual property and the right to protect it, I see.

I didn't know arguing for Fair use (especially since it again, has no monetary gain and thus, not taking any money out of the pockets) was considered "Entitlement". I'm again failing to see what is so bad about these mods that's "Threatening" to F1's Image, something no one (not even FOM themselves) can seemingly answer. I don't see the ACO or NASCAR going after all these mods, likewise none of the Car Manufacterers (Apart from Porsche) don't seem nearly as paranoid about it either.
 
What about a studio like Codemasters? They're relatively small by industry standards, and pretty much rely on the Formula One licence to stay in business. That "harmless group of die hard fans" creating replicas and making them available for free puts the ninety or so jobs at Codemasters in jeopardy.
Let's not mix terms here. Mods =/= piracy. Nothing about the core game was being changed here (from my reading of tankuroded's link), and Codemasters already earned their money with the price of the game. If Codemasters was really concerned about the rampant "piracy" going on by way of these mods, then they should have done what EA is doing with their sports titles, retire online server access to encourage sales of the next title.
 
I didn't know arguing for Fair use (especially since it again, has no monetary gain and thus, not taking any money out of the pockets) was considered "Entitlement".
And you have the data to support this?

Not for profit doesn't mean there's no loss of revenue - intellectual properties have a value, a value that can very much be reduced when that property is distributed free of charge by a third party.

Above all..... their property, their choice - even if that means they're making terrible decisions that will backfire on them. Right vs wrong and wise vs unwise are very different things in this arena.
 
And you have the data to support this?

Tons of mods that didn't cost me anything. It might not be actual data, but I'm pretty sure free mods or skins hardly makes a dent on the profit of that intellectual property.

Not for profit doesn't mean there's no loss of revenue - intellectual properties have a value, a value that can very much be reduced when that property is distributed free of charge by a third party.

Again, this is a small group. Its not like the entire populous is getting a whole game for free, its a very small niche. I'm not saying it isn't their property, I'm arguing against this highly aggressive stance against what hardly is a threat to F1's property. I was fine with them coming down on sites Profiting off their name, fair enough since that is people literally making money while having the F1 name plastered where all can see it without their permission (Likewise, I understand this when someone posts a video on youtube profiting off other licenses without permission). But this? What exactly is damaging? If anything, technically the skins themselves are property of the teams moreso then FOM.
 
It might not be actual data, but I'm pretty sure free mods or skins hardly makes a dent on the profit of that intellectual property.
Moot point..... their property, their choice.

Once it enters the territory of their property, "fair use" as you called it is explicitly and only whatever they agree to.
 
Moot point..... their property, their choice.

Once it enters the territory of their property, "fair use" as you called it is explicitly and only whatever they agree to.

And what is it that they exactly "Agree to"? Last year, they didn't want people using the F1 name, this year its nothing (mods or skins) even looks related to F1.

If anything, this seems more like a kneejerk reaction bought by the drop in viewership which scares the commercial Rights holders and prompts them to take aggressive action like this, as if to somehow blame this small group for them having a product that's losing viewers as of late.
 
What they "agree to" hasn't changed - they own the rights to the image of organised F1 racing. How they police it has apparently changed but, as @LeMansAid say, it's still their property.


As I said before, I'm not arguing against whether its their property or not (I'm well aware that the FOM owns it). I'm arguing against this sudden change (or how they police as you more appropreatly call it) where its out of the blue now not allowable to have mods or skins as opposed to just not allowing the copyrighted F1 name to be used outside officially licensed material last year(and again, against a group that makes little to no profit on such work).
 
As I said before, I'm not arguing against whether its their property or not (I'm well aware that the FOM owns it). I'm arguing against this sudden change (or how they police as you more appropreatly call it) where its out of the blue now not allowable to have mods or skins as opposed to just not allowing the copyrighted F1 name to be used outside officially licensed material last year(and again, against a group that makes little to no profit on such work).
It's not out of the blue.

http://www.virtualr.net/no-more-formula-one-modding-content-on-virtualr
 
"Protect" insinuates that something is being damaged.
No, "protect" insinuates the potential for something to be damaged. Just because no damage has happened yet, that doesn't mean that the damage cannot or will not happen.

Also please back-up the otherwise out-of-the-sky Codemasters claim.
It's simple economics. The modders can create replicas of every single car and circuit and release them online for free. The economics of supply and demand make it clear that when presented with two competing needs, but the resources to satisfy only one, they will choose the one that best satisfies their needs. In this case, we have two competing products of similar or equal quality, with a disparity in price. If enough people opt for the free version over the Codemasters version, eventually it will have an impact on the studio.

I find it hilarious that people vehemently defend their rights on these forums, be it the right to free speech, artistic expression, bearing arms, etc., but as soon as a company exercises its right to see its intellectual property used in a way that is deems appropriate, the people scream blue murder.
 
Don't blame F1, blame the copyright laws that make the holders sue everyone in order to keep it*.

*I'm not sure how copyright law is set up elsewhere so it may be different, but in the U.S. if you don't defend your copyright in a case you lose it.
 
If anything, this seems more like a kneejerk reaction bought by the drop in viewership which scares the commercial Rights holders and prompts them to take aggressive action like this, as if to somehow blame this small group for them having a product that's losing viewers as of late.
Here's where you're wrong. Whatever viewership F1 has taken a dive with on the television side is their own doing (by changing rules like qualifying procedures and then doubling down on it when it fails the first race of the season). However, where they are getting overzealous is that everything that even remotely associates with FIA is somehow copyright protected with a blanket protection and how they are going about "protecting" it is both the wrong approach and it is further damaging the TV product in the process because of reputational damage.

No, "protect" insinuates the potential for something to be damaged. Just because no damage has happened yet, that doesn't mean that the damage cannot or will not happen.
You are still not proving your point. The modder has paid for their copy of the game, and by all rights they should be allowed to modify it any way they choose to do so. I would recommend that you brush up on the legal history behind the court case Nintendo v. Galoob. It was ruled in that case that modifying your legally purchased game by way of cheat codes is similar to introducing "house rules" in Monopoly.


It's simple economics. The modders can create replicas of every single car and circuit and release them online for free. The economics of supply and demand make it clear that when presented with two competing needs, but the resources to satisfy only one, they will choose the one that best satisfies their needs. In this case, we have two competing products of similar or equal quality, with a disparity in price. If enough people opt for the free version over the Codemasters version, eventually it will have an impact on the studio.
Not true. There is still a price attached to the mods, and that is the cost of the base price of the game that you wish to mod (if it is F1 2013 or 2014, it doesn't matter, it is a fact that you conveniently slip by your memory). Codemasters will still earn money from sales of past games naturally, but even they have to know the nature of the PC market and the fact that old games are supported by way of modifications.

I find it hilarious that people vehemently defend their rights on these forums, be it the right to free speech, artistic expression, bearing arms, etc., but as soon as a company exercises its right to see its intellectual property used in a way that is deems appropriate, the people scream blue murder.
There is a right way to enforce intellectual property, and there is a wrong way to enforce intellectual property. As I have stated in my last post, modification of an old game does not equal piracy of the new game. I'll say this again for the rest of the class, modification of a game brings new gameplay experiences to a tired game. With Codemasters and FIA doing this to the modding community, this will do nothing good in the long run but ENCOURAGE piracy. Why? Because IF they offer nothing to encourage players to upgrade year after year, the modders will go to torrent sites to distribute their work.

EA, with all of their faults, at least makes an effort to freshen up the gameplay year after year on their sports titles. It will not hurt Codemasters to do the same.
 
No, "protect" insinuates the potential for something to be damaged. Just because no damage has happened yet, that doesn't mean that the damage cannot or will not happen.
And this damage is..?


It's simple economics. The modders can create replicas of every single car and circuit and release them online for free. The economics of supply and demand make it clear that when presented with two competing needs, but the resources to satisfy only one, they will choose the one that best satisfies their needs. In this case, we have two competing products of similar or equal quality, with a disparity in price. If enough people opt for the free version over the Codemasters version, eventually it will have an impact on the studio.

Only relevant if a stand alone GP game is produced.

I find it hilarious that people vehemently defend their rights on these forums, be it the right to free speech, artistic expression, bearing arms, etc., but as soon as a company exercises its right to see its intellectual property used in a way that is deems appropriate, the people scream blue murder.

There has been no negative aspect to this.
 
OK, I'm probably about to stick both feet in my mouth, but here goes nothing.

I have a very loose understanding of Fair Use, Copyrights, and Trademarks, but there are a few things I have gathered. First is that generally speaking if a major entity, F1 in this case, isn't getting something out of anything their likeness is plastered on, they usually will take action, usually in a C&D notice which can be as far as it goes unless you decide to fight it or just ignore it, which doesn't end well. So I can see why F1 is in a huff over the 2015-16 cars being modded into older games for free.

I also have seen, as almost everyone here has, that game makers don't care for modding. What was it, GT5 update 2.10 that would actually revert modded files? Almost every company fights modders, long and short of it, regardless of intent because they hold dominion over the IP so whatever they want or don't want is the bottom line, and I may be wrong on this but I believe that was also what empowered companies to do the online passes that everyone hated. I may not care for it, but I get it on CMs end.

What I don't know is how far does this reach? Automobilista has cars they lable as 'F1' from the 90's, are those included? What about the ISS mod for NR2003? What about if you use a current livery on an older car? Older livery on a newer car? At what point does the action stop? And why so much fuss now? If it's a blatant 2016 F1 mod then fine, I get it Bernie, but where does it end?

Wasn't there another racing series doing the same thing awhile back as well?

All that aside, there is an easy way to get people to buy the games in the first place, make a genuinely good and enjoyable game. Sounds easy but having played, and generally didn't like, F1 '10-'12, I get why mods are made to begin with, content we want on a platform that's entertaining and can handle it.

Right. Said my peace, ready for ridicule now.
 
and I may be wrong on this but I believe that was also what empowered companies to do the online passes that everyone hated.
No. What empowered companies to do the online passes was to combat used game sales (in somewhat large part due to the PS3 having free online play). We just simply voted with our wallets and boycotted companies that did that garbage. Did good games fall through the cracks? Maybe (I for one wanted to play the PS3 Twisted Metal, but it had the online pass).

That said, as to why I am in defense of the modders, you should read the court case I cited in my last post. It is actually the modders that has the legal leg to stand on, not Codemasters and FIA. However, I will agree that if they go and sell the completed mod as a new game, then by all means, sue the living hell out of them.
 
I'll refrain from sharing my assured unpopular opinion on the premise of "What about Codemasters?" and will instead attempt to impart my own separate-yet-related opinion on something else.

I don't understand why any body of work or corporation continues to pigeonhole things like this. It is probably the most basic of manifestos/human psychology: the more you prohibit something, the more it is desired. That this still isn't understood or challenged properly bewilders me.

What is prohibiting F1 mods going to do? About the same thing prohibiting Porsche's likeness in games did – nothing. Mods are the attempt to keep an aging game or even a lackluster game flourished, and without them, in whatever capacity they exist, there is nothing.

Take a look at the modding communities that exist; take a look at the attempts made to stifle them in the past; take a look at how other developers and governing bodies embrace them because they cause no harm as anything rights-related has, at least in the majority of cases, already been legally obtained. There is no loss.
 
No. What empowered companies to do the online passes was to combat used game sales (in somewhat large part due to the PS3 having free online play). We just simply voted with our wallets and boycotted companies that did that garbage. Did good games fall through the cracks? Maybe (I for one wanted to play the PS3 Twisted Metal, but it had the online pass).

That said, as to why I am in defense of the modders, you should read the court case I cited in my last post. It is actually the modders that has the legal leg to stand on, not Codemasters and FIA. However, I will agree that if they go and sell the completed mod as a new game, then by all means, sue the living hell out of them.
I think I bought three games total that had passes, two had been out for a long time before I bought them, but the third was DiRT 3, and I wasn't aware it had one when I bought it. I was very pissed.

I was writing out my comment when you posted yours. I thought I would have heard something about that as many forums and gaming sites as I've visited, but it seems no one knows there's even a chance you have any leverage. I sure as hell didn't. I'll look at the case later tonight.
 
And what is it that they exactly "Agree to"? Last year, they didn't want people using the F1 name, this year its nothing (mods or skins) even looks related to F1.

If anything, this seems more like a kneejerk reaction bought by the drop in viewership which scares the commercial Rights holders and prompts them to take aggressive action like this, as if to somehow blame this small group for them having a product that's losing viewers as of late.
You need to make it clear if you are talking about them not being entitled to their approach, or if you think their approach is just unwise.

If you don't know why, I think I'm ready to give up on you.
I find it hilarious that people vehemently defend their rights on these forums, be it the right to free speech, artistic expression, bearing arms, etc., but as soon as a company exercises its right to see its intellectual property used in a way that is deems appropriate, the people scream blue murder.
Lucky @Keef isn't big on rights then eh? Considering....
Let's take it a step further and consider intellectual property rights. Once you buy a game the game should be yours...literally to do whatever you wish to do with it, including make copies and give them to your friends for free (or charge them if you're a dick).
 
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You need to make it clear if you are talking about them not being entitled to their approach, or if you think their approach is just unwise.

If you don't know why, I think I'm ready to give up on you.

I made it clear in this post:

As I said before, I'm not arguing against whether its their property or not (I'm well aware that the FOM owns it). I'm arguing against this sudden change (or how they police as you more appropreatly call it) where its out of the blue now not allowable to have mods or skins as opposed to just not allowing the copyrighted F1 name to be used outside officially licensed material last year(and again, against a group that makes little to no profit on such work).
 
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I did point out that it wasn't a sudden change and that they've always protected their copyright but you just ignored that.
"Having paid Nintendo a fair return, the consumer may experiment with the product and create new variations of play, for personal enjoyment, without creating a derivative work." - Judge Fern M. Smith:Galoob v Nintendo (1991)
 
"Having paid Nintendo a fair return, the consumer may experiment with the product and create new variations of play, for personal enjoyment, without creating a derivative work." - Judge Fern M. Smith:Galoob v Nintendo (1991)
Not really relevant to my point though, and is also a completely different situation.
 
Not really relevant to my point though, and is also a completely different situation.
No on both counts, and the quote really goes to the heart of Codemaster's argument against modifications. This is settled case law in the US since 1991, and the ability to modify one's game is fair use. The whole point to this discussion is that Codemasters is indeed overzealous in protecting their revenue stream that a C&D letter was completely necessary in their view against modification sites. One paid Codemasters for the game, no one is arguing against it, but to equate mods to piracy (because of lost future sales) is just sheer lunacy.
 
I did point out that it wasn't a sudden change and that they've always protected their copyright but you just ignored that.

I didn't ignore it. I know I didn't make a post acknowledging that but I already saw it, my point was I had a problem with the way they defended their intellectual property. I already said I had no problem with them not wanting sites to use the Formula 1 Trademark, just with the fact that they've made now two sites have a mass exodus of content that isn't taking money away from them nor their Licensee.
 
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