Formula 1 Gran Premio de España Santander 2012

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prisonermonkeys
Wow. Senna's spin was pathetic.
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PeterJB
Lets have it then...
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prisonermonkeys
What?

It was pathetic. Maldonado takes P2. Senna spins out at the end of Q1. Worse, he spun out at one of the slowest parts of the circuit with a simple error. I actually felt embarrassed for him.
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ghskilla
I can already see another flame war ensuing with this statement, better stay out of it.

Congratulations Hamilton and Maldonado, but high chance of both of them trying to pass one another and contact is almost likely. After all, this is Hamilton and Maldonado we're talking about.
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*grabs popcorn*
 
prisonermonkeys
What?

It was pathetic. Maldonado takes P2. Senna spins out at the end of Q1. Worse, he spun out at one of the slowest parts of the circuit with a simple error. I actually felt embarrassed for him.
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Like you I think Bruno is extremely overrated due to his uncles reputation and I don't really support him. However I also think using every mistake he makes as an excuse to bash him isn't necessary at all. In fact it seems many people around here are a little irritated with it. I am aware this is a forum and its purpose is to allow people far apart to share their opinions; however does such an opinion really need to be rephrased in every thread that ever-so-slightly relates to him? Surely you must have interesting, well thought out opinions on other related topics that we haven't heard already? :)
 
SuperDiscoDaz
Thanks and I bow down to your superior knowledge and age lol. I don't think any commentator can replace Murray as the best F1 commentator.
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Thanks my lad, it is duly appreciated ;).

And indeed Murray and James commentating when F1 was at one of it's peak moments (Senna-Mansell-Prost Period). It doesn't get much better than that!
 
dhandes
*grabs popcorn*
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I'm anticipating Peter.'s next post will be something about how Senna was distracted by a low-flying bird that no-one else saw. Or maybe a tear the space-time continuum meant that the inside kerb of Turn 12 suddenly moved inwards. Or that he did it deliberately so that the team would stand him down for Monaco and let Valtteri Bottas race in his place because the Monaco Grand Prix will be on Bottas' birthday and Senna wanted to do something nice for him.

Whatever excuse he gives, it will be the usual stuff about how Senna is secretly brilliant and that the spin totally wasn't his fault.
 
mister dog
Thanks my lad, it is duly appreciated ;).

And indeed Murray and James commentating when F1 was at one of it's peak moments (Senna-Mansell-Prost Period). It doesn't get much better than that!
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I would have loved to have been able to watch it back then as it was a lot closer than the past 2 seasons and when Schumacher dominated.
 
Maldonado's done a great job.

Cue a swipe at Hamilton that everyone finds disrespectful followed by a DNF.
 
JBanton
Hamilton on pole - WOOPEE :) (hopes pit crew have had training)
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According to what I heard they've had training, personel have been moved/replaced, and they're now using the "nut in wheel" system, so pitstops should be faster now.
 
Kimi to win. That is all.
 
Top 3 guess, Kimi, Alonso, Perez.

Maldonado and Hamilton will be lucky to get round lap 1.
 
Mike Rotch
Great lap by Alonso - looks like Ferrari have made a step in the right direction, although Massa is being Massa.

Cracking lap by LH too. 👍

They need to crack down on this "not running a lap in Q3" malarky though, its a bit of a joke.
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Easy. Since they technically haven't qualified for the race, since Q3 times are scrubbed for Q2 and Q2 times are scrubbed for Q3, just make them start them at the back. Problem solved.
 
I don't care about the not-running-in-q3 since it's a part of the tyre strategy. It's not like everyone's doing it in every qualifying session and cars with better tyres starting a big further back = more overtaking and general action.
 
Liquid
He's right, though. Under pressure or not, it was a rudimentary corner and he totally fluffed it with an insane amount of kerb. While he was 18th.
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While I really don't agree with the Senna bashing, it wasn't a fantastic way to end your qualifying session. Especially when your team mate is 2nd.

Still, always tomorrow.
 
Eddie Jordan I think is going over the top with praise for Pirelli. The regulation changes since 2010 are really the big impact, the Kers, DRS and regulations about the diffuser and exhaust making the field more close together. It is a shame Bridgestone dropped out when they did, hopefully one day we will get to see F1 cars with better tyres again with similar regulations that make the field close together and make passing possible. Maybe Pirelli might change their approach if enough requests are made but it is unlikely at the moment.

Good job by Hamilton, Maldonado and Alonso. Hopefully no first lap incidents, should be an interesting race.
 
One question yet remains; Did Maldonado's Williams put him in 2nd, or his eyebrows?
 
saidur_ali
Eddie Jordan I think is going over the top with praise for Pirelli. The regulation changes since 2010 are really the big impact, the Kers, DRS and regulations about the diffuser and exhaust making the field more close together. It is a shame Bridgestone dropped out when they did, hopefully one day we will get to see F1 cars with better tyres again with similar regulations that make the field close together and make passing possible. Maybe Pirelli might change their approach if enough requests are made but it is unlikely at the moment.

Good job by Hamilton, Maldonado and Alonso. Hopefully no first lap incidents, should be an interesting race.
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Their approach towards the tyres is dictated by FOM (or whoeevr it is), they can make more durable/grippy tyres if they want, but we've had that in the past and had dull racing. We get to have a watchable Spanish GP, that's how good they are!
 
daan
According to what I heard they've had training, personel have been moved/replaced, and they're now using the "nut in wheel" system, so pitstops should be faster now.
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What system were they using before? The nut in wheel system kind of seems the obvious choice doesn't it (don't know anything about pitstops though).
 
saidur_ali
hopefully one day we will get to see F1 cars with better tyres again.
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What do you mean by "better tyres"?

Grippier tyres that lasts the end of the race and is totally durable?

That didn't help overtaking at all, in fact it downright pretty much made it a lottery on whether the machines would break down first or the driver. And they're both highly consistent nowadays than in previous years.

So, I would prefer this style of racing, when you have to have a strategic mind to see who exactly will win the race and who can overtake or look after their tyres the best.

In the 50's to 80's racing, tyres often would wear out during the races and a driver's skill was driving on the limits of the tyres AND prolonging the life of the tyres past their limited lifespan.

One could say that the Bridgestones lead to drivers losing their touch for conserving their tyres for a longer period of time, as there were times that drivers could drive for 40 laps or more on Soft tyres. That's pretty much a Hard tyre to most people!

Last year, towards the end of the season, the tyres were starting to get predictable and more durable and the racing wasn't as closely contested down the field as it was from the start to the middle of the season. This didn't really make the racing as exciting as it should have been.
 
gorsad
What system were they using before? The nut in wheel system kind of seems the obvious choice doesn't it (don't know anything about pitstops though).
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They had a wheel and a nut that wasn't attached, it comes with the air gun.. The main advantage of that system, is if the nut strips, then the spare gun has the spare nut already in it, so the mechanic simply picks that gun up.

The wheel in nut system they have now adopted, will be quicker, but if the nut strips they have to get a whole new wheel from the garage, which will cost more time then swapping guns.

If all went to plan the nut in wheel system, would be quicker, but longer if it went wrong.
The nut in gun system, would be longer, but quicker if it went wrong. Unfortunately it keeps going wrong.
 
Sureboss
Their approach towards the tyres is dictated by FOM (or whoeevr it is), they can make more durable/grippy tyres if they want, but we've had that in the past and had dull racing. We get to have a watchable Spanish GP, that's how good they are!
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I know that and that is why I think it is a shame Bridgestone dropped out when they did as we could have seen great competitive overtaking potentially in 2011. We would have had a watchable and more interesting Spanish GP with better tyres potentially but we will never know fully until it actually happens.

Pirelli hinders natural overtaking instinct of racing drivers as quite a few drivers will probably be holding a gap to the driver in front hoping to outlast them and not risking running close due to potentially damaging the tyres and failing to overtake which will compromise further stints and final race position. The marbles created by tyres hinder overtaking too.

The thing the Pirelli adds is making it a lottery potentially with how sensitive the tyres are to temperature. I think as a tyre supplier, they should be the ones resposible for providing a tyre that works on a broader range, rather than the teams with the limited things they can change in-race finding the sweet spot as really there is not much they can do if race day the temperatures on the race track change from Saturday by quite a bit.

Other things they add is reliability for F1 cars and making requirements for F1 fitness level lower due to drivers and cars being driven quite below their limit to make tyres last. The way the tyres are regarding race pace, the gap between GP2 qualifying and F1 race pace is getting so close that making the transistion for young drivers is becoming easier so it helps lack of testing in that sense.
 
Nice to see McLaren doing well at Catalunya, so used to seeing RedBull dominate with their downforce.
 
saidur_ali
I know that and that is why I think it is a shame Bridgestone dropped out when they did as we could have seen great competitive overtaking potentially in 2011.
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I'm not sure you understand. The FIA (and teams) wanted tires like the ones Pirelli are supplying. Pirelli are only doing what was asked of them. So even if Bridgestone never left they would no longer be supplying tires with very little wear like they use to.

20011 would have been dreadful with Bridgstone supplying tires. There would have been practically no on-track action. Except maybe a few DRS passes. Thanks to Pirelli there were constant battles taking place to keep us entertained while Vettel cruised out front.

Replace the current Pirelli tires with the old Bridgestones and this season would not be any different than 2010...close championship but most races would be stale/boring. Most of the qualifying sessions in 2010 were more exciting than the actual races.
 
Hamilton could lose pole position:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/18047760

We all know what they were playing at, it's exactly the same as Canada 2010. If there was a problem with the car the chances are they will have to make a change like a gearbox, which would incur a penalty. If there was no problem with the car Hamilton will be penalised for not making it back to the pits. But I guess that depends on how much actual fuel there was left in the car.

Maldonado possibly starting from pole? I would've never saw that coming. Last year he was always the drop out in Q1 type. I'm astounded at how much he has improved over the winter. (Either that or they actually have a pacesetting car and Senna is just a god-awful driver).
 
The mistake that Bruno did costed them a lot. I'm honestly impressed with Maldonado this weekend. Somehow really, he's showing that he really is worth a seat. That Williams does seem to have improved a lot over the winter and it's starting to collect some speed.

Afterall, it sounds a lot like we could have a new 5th winner!
 
Seismica
...But I guess that depends on how much actual fuel there was left in the car...
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The report is 1.3 litres which would have been enough to get back and give a sample. Still waiting for the official details though. Being a McLaren fan can be very frustrating at times...
 
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