Formula 1 Lenovo British Grand Prix 2022Formula 1 

  • Thread starter Jimlaad43
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May is a modal verb indicating permission or possibility. It does not mean obligation. @-Fred- has a point. You would have to rewrite the rule to say "Cars must overtake the safety car" or "Cars are obliged to..." or Cars need to..."

Under the current ruling/wording, a car has every right to not unlap itself.
 
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Liquid
May is a modal verb indicating permission or possibility. It does not mean obligation. @-Fred- has a point. You would have to rewrite the rule to say "Cars must overtake the safety car" or "Cars are obliged to..." or Cars need to..."

Under the current ruling/wording, a car has every right to not unlap itself.
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Though nobody in their right mind would because that's the end of your race.
 
ZoomingZoomer
Hamilton did not hit the apex last year on lap 1, today he did when Leclerc swooped past to stay ahead. People have such a selective memory, it’s almost laughable.
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There's no denying that Hamilton was more at fault for the crash at Copse last year, he missed the apex. However, Verstappen ALWAYS drives other cars off the track whenever he tries to pass other cars. In 2021 is was pathetic. Imola, Spain, Literally every other corner before the Copse crash at Silverstone, Italy, Brazil, a million times in Saudi Arabia and Abu Dhabi 3 times, he pushes other cars off the track. The ONE TIME another car does that to him, he turns in and has a big crash, and is then surprised that the car on the outside turning in crashes. He has just been lucky that he races Hamilton who has the sense to not have a crash every time Max fails to understand how to race other cars.

Max fans always bring up Copse as a be all and end all, not realising that it was 100% a taste of his own medicine. It's Max's incompetence and Hamilton's race craft that makes it seem like this was all Hamilton and "Max can race fair". No he can't, and this was another race where he just pushes cars off and expects them to get out of his way.

Max is clearly the best driver this year and should run away with the 2022 title on pure pace. But especially after Bahrain this year, we saw just how bad he is at proper wheel-to-wheel racing and a sore loser he is. Horner's comments last year about "you don't overtake at Copse" have been wiped in his face so much in these races since because it's a proper legit place and you can go side-by-side through it.
 
Jimlaad43
There's no denying that Hamilton was more at fault for the crash at Copse last year, he missed the apex. However, Verstappen ALWAYS drives other cars off the track whenever he tries to pass other cars. In 2021 is was pathetic. Imola, Spain, Literally every other corner before the Copse crash at Silverstone, Italy, Brazil, a million times in Saudi Arabia and Abu Dhabi 3 times, he pushes other cars off the track. The ONE TIME another car does that to him, he turns in and has a big crash, and is then surprised that the car on the outside turning in crashes. He has just been lucky that he races Hamilton who has the sense to not have a crash every time Max fails to understand how to race other cars.

Max fans always bring up Copse as a be all and end all, not realising that it was 100% a taste of his own medicine. It's Max's incompetence and Hamilton's race craft that makes it seem like this was all Hamilton and "Max can race fair". No he can't, and this was another race where he just pushes cars off and expects them to get out of his way.

Max is clearly the best driver this year and should run away with the 2022 title on pure pace. But especially after Bahrain this year, we saw just how bad he is at proper wheel-to-wheel racing and a sore loser he is. Horner's comments last year about "you don't overtake at Copse" have been wiped in his face so much in these races since because it's a proper legit place and you can go side-by-side through it.
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Last year Max did not turn in to Lewis, he left more than enough space, yet Lewis missed the apex so badly that he hit Max anyway. Yesterday in the move with Leclerc, Leclerc steered in so much that Lewis basically had no track left on the inside, yet they didn't crash. Leclerc was more than a meter further to the right than Max was last year. Lewis just messed it up back then, and he (and his fanbase) refuses to acknowledge that he was 100% at fault.

Horner's comments last year were more directed at sending it down the inside into copse when you can't make the corner anymore. Not comparable to the other moves we saw.

I'll grant you that Max' battle with Mick was very dirty, and that he has a history of dirty moves. But last year's copse incident had no relation to that at all, and Max did everything right there.
 
PeterJB
Though nobody in their right mind would because that's the end of your race.
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Until the point it becomes advantages to a teammate for you not to and the exact wording becomes an issue and the FIA have to clarify something that should have been clear in the first place.
 
Scaff
Until the point it becomes advantages to a teammate for you not to and the exact wording becomes an issue and the FIA have to clarify something that should have been clear in the first place.
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It was just the displayed message though, I assume the actual rulebook is a bit clearer on this
 
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proud uncle Seb - you know he was acting as rear gunner those last few laps to make sure no one caught up to Mick from behind.
 

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Terronium-12
Dialogue started a long time ago. Diehard fans want nothing to do with the discussion though because [insert whataboutism here].
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Unfortunately any incident between two drivers is going to end up with a weird two-party tinge to it, conveniently ignoring anyone who just wants to see good, clean racing.
 
racingnews365.com

Verstappen explains why he 'appreciated' battle with Schumacher

Having suffered damage to his car earlier in the race, Max Verstappen found himself battling with cars in the midfield during the British Grand Prix, and enjoyed a particularly close fight with Mick Schumacher.
racingnews365.com racingnews365.com

""I was like, 'Well, he has to now back off, otherwise we're both out,'" the World Champion explained. "Luckily, he's smart enough to [do that].""

The old "you back out or we crash" attitude.
 
I didn’t realize that Perez is second in the standings. Seems like the championship is over already lol.

It would be nice to see a new team fight for the championship. Ferrari seem to incompetent to ever be up to the task. And I’m over all of the bickering between Horner/Marko/Wolff.

Last random note: I think it’s time for Danny Ric to go. I feel like he’d be right at home in Indycar. I think there’s a few drivers that would benefit from making that switch.
 
PaMu1337
Last year Max did not turn in to Lewis, he left more than enough space, yet Lewis missed the apex so badly that he hit Max anyway. Yesterday in the move with Leclerc, Leclerc steered in so much that Lewis basically had no track left on the inside, yet they didn't crash. Leclerc was more than a meter further to the right than Max was last year. Lewis just messed it up back then, and he (and his fanbase) refuses to acknowledge that he was 100% at fault.

Horner's comments last year were more directed at sending it down the inside into copse when you can't make the corner anymore. Not comparable to the other moves we saw.

I'll grant you that Max' battle with Mick was very dirty, and that he has a history of dirty moves. But last year's copse incident had no relation to that at all, and Max did everything right there.
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The problem with all of this is that Max is the king of the bad send. He has the car control to make it work so often that people forget how often he succeeds solely because the other driver refuses to crash. It came back to bite him in a horrific way at Silverstone when Hamilton went for a patented 'Max Full send' and Max had no ability to recognize it because he's not used to being on the outside when someone does it back to him. Still Lewis' fault, just like the majority of the other examples are definitely Max's fault.

The fact that Hamilton has probably had less incidents like that over the length of his career than Max has had speaks volumes. As does the number of times Max continues to run people off without penalty. And as long as the FIA aren't going to deal with it he will use every tactic he can to his advantage. He's fast, aggressive and amazing to watch. But he's also filthy and I'm getting sick of it. I'm just waiting to have the other drivers stop backing out in order for RedBull to blow their salary cap.

I think it's also important to note how often Max pulls these moves when it isn't critical to the race. Most of Lewis' incidents happen in more critical situations, even the lap 1 stupidity at Barcelona with Nico.

Max needs his head pulled in so he becomes more tactical and efficient. I want to see him at his absolute best he can be, not what he does now.
 
PaMu1337
Last year Max did not turn in to Lewis, he left more than enough space
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Can I suggest you watch this video, and properly watch it? You'll notice that Max did not give Lewis enough room and did turn in on him by taking a tighter radius than the car on the inside. When Max has driven up the inside of other drivers, they have avoided an accident by increasing the radius of the turn, especially when Max pushes them off the road, something Max didn't do. Remembering the quote from the stewards, Hamilton only had the majority of blame for the incident, and that Max did not do everything he could to avoid an incident.

 
This is the Verstappen who drove completely off track at Brazil and thought it was OK, and the Verstappen who thought that Hamilton cutting the chicane at Abu Dhabi was cheating, despite running all the way off track himself. Max doesn't understand that cars on the outside need to have space if you're going to send it up the inside like a madman, he's just been lucky that he is racing a driver like Hamilton who has more sense than last-of-the-late-braker Verstappen.

Even in this race Verstappen was still forcing everyone off track, so he hasn't learned.
 
If it’s ok for him to brake-check somebody mid-race or spin his wheels on top of their helmet, he’s probably not gonna get punished too much for forcing people off the track.
The fault lies with the rules enforcers and the sanctioning body, who routinely allow the behavior to continue.
 
DG_Silva
Can I suggest you watch this video, and properly watch it? You'll notice that Max did not give Lewis enough room and did turn in on him by taking a tighter radius than the car on the inside. When Max has driven up the inside of other drivers, they have avoided an accident by increasing the radius of the turn, especially when Max pushes them off the road, something Max didn't do. Remembering the quote from the stewards, Hamilton only had the majority of blame for the incident, and that Max did not do everything he could to avoid an incident.

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I see 2 car widths on the inside, more than enough. Yes he took a tighter radius than the car on the inside, because the car on the inside fully missed the corner. In cases where Max has gone up the inside, others have indeed increased their corner radius, but that's not really something you can do in Copse, especially given how fast you're going and how short the reaction times are. (Again, I do agree that those moves by Max are dirty, and he definitely deserves a penalty every now and then).
Jimlaad43
This is the Verstappen who drove completely off track at Brazil and thought it was OK, and the Verstappen who thought that Hamilton cutting the chicane at Abu Dhabi was cheating, despite running all the way off track himself. Max doesn't understand that cars on the outside need to have space if you're going to send it up the inside like a madman, he's just been lucky that he is racing a driver like Hamilton who has more sense than last-of-the-late-braker Verstappen.

Even in this race Verstappen was still forcing everyone off track, so he hasn't learned.
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Brazil was dirty as hell, and he should have been penalized for that, fully agree.
Abu Dhabi was very hypocritical, again agree.
But those were very different from what happened at Copse last year.
 
PaMu1337
But those were very different from what happened at Copse last year.
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Yes they were. Brazil and Abu Dhabi were deliberate acts of carelessness with a car on the outside deciding to live to fight another day. Copse was a genuine (fault worthy) mistake with a car unwilling to give in and fight another day.

Very big different, as you correctly said.
 
PaMu1337
I see 2 car widths on the inside, more than enough. Yes he took a tighter radius than the car on the inside, because the car on the inside fully missed the corner. In cases where Max has gone up the inside, others have indeed increased their corner radius, but that's not really something you can do in Copse, especially given how fast you're going and how short the reaction times are. (Again, I do agree that those moves by Max are dirty, and he definitely deserves a penalty every now and then).
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Max also took a tighter line than the radius of the corner, not just compared to Lewis. Here's a comparison of Hamilton's overtakes into Copse. Yes, it's fine to accept that Lewis hit the apex of the corner (white line, ghosted car), but Leclerc gave enough room (red line). I'm not going deny that Hamilton was on a wider line going into the corner due to the speed he was taking (grey line), but his line was in parallel with the radius of the corner - Max took a tighter line than the radius of the corner, knowing that Lewis could've been on the inside, and had no intention of avoiding an incident.

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However, it's water under the bridge, and is not relevant to the original discussion of Max putting other drivers in a position to crash, deliberately, on many occasions. He needs taking in hand, because simply issuing penalty points is not enough when other drivers are having to avoid a collision.
 
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