Formula 1 MSC Cruises Belgian Grand Prix 2023Formula 1 

  • Thread starter Jimlaad43
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Fell asleep halfway through it. Woke up, rewatched it on F1 TV. No longer upset I fell asleep.

As someone else said, the fact Checo just gets blown by in the same car really delivers a kick in the gut if you’re after some sort of remaining competitiveness for wins.

At least the rest of the field seems to be in line with each other, I suppose. But I’m disappointed that I’m looking forward to sleeping in on Sundays for the next month.
 
Force-Feedback
I tend to disagree about a more capable second driver making a difference at RB.
They have historically been a 1-man team with a car developed specifically to meet the needs of that man and no one else.
And even if a second driver’s talent is enough to overcome that, RB will subtly sabotage him in their actions and psychologically.
Does anyone honestly think Perez would be allowed to take the title if his times were always competitive with Max?
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Why do people keep coming up with this thought? Sabotage the 2nd driver? What? Do you know that the Constructors Championship is what ultimately brings in the money to teams and not the Drivers?
Like, do you really know the inner workings of how a F1 team, a top F1 team at that, operates? This is being incredulous to ridiculous levels or just coping with something...

2016 and 2017, Daniel and Max were fairly equal, with Max actually having a lot more bad luck in 2017 despite being the faster driver, and finished behind him. In 2010 Vettel had more reliability issues than Webber, also despite being the faster driver.
All other seasons were just cases of one driver being better than the other. Or one side of the garage just not having the same luck with reliability or even incidents which just happen to be the side of the garage that had the slower driver.

With your line of reason, Mercedes was also equally a 1-man team from 2017 to 2021... In fact there's even more grounds to say this because there was a plethora of times where Bottas was simply not allowed to race Hamilton or to just let him pass, even for race wins on the line and he also had more mechanical DNFs than Hamilton.
 
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[FIA letterhead]

Starting August 1st, 2023 all trophies and associated showy achievement devices will be carried around in the safety car, presented to the driver(s)/team representative, and returned to the safety car as to prevent further reputationalized damage during the course of excessive celebrations after curb/kerb-stomping the entire paddock once again.

Jean Todt-Mosely-Balestre-Fitzsimmons

[wax seal]
 
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Sainz blaming piastri, even through Sainz was the one that locked up and squeezed him
 

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Grimm6Jack
Why do people keep coming up with this thought? Sabotage the 2nd driver? What? Do you know that the Constructors Championship is what ultimately brings in the money to teams and not the Drivers?
Like, do you really know the inner workings of how a F1 team, a top F1 team at that, operates? This is being incredulous to ridiculous levels or just coping with something...

2016 and 2017, Daniel and Max were fairly equal, with Max actually having a lot more bad luck in 2017 despite being the faster driver, and finished behind him. In 2010 Vettel had more reliability issues than Webber, also despite being the faster driver.
All other seasons were just cases of one driver being better than the other. Or one side of the garage just not having the same luck with reliability or even incidents which just happen to be the side of the garage that had the slower driver.

With your line of reason, Mercedes was also equally a 1-man team from 2017 to 2021... In fact there's even more grounds to say this because there was a plethora of times where Bottas was simply not allowed to race Hamilton or to just let him pass, even for race wins on the line and he also had more mechanical DNFs than Hamilton.
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I don't entirely disagree about Mercedes from 2017-2021, being more focused on their strongest driver, Lewis, (though that's not to take away from Valtteri's impressive performance at the team). Though prior to that (2016 in particular), i genuinely believe the team would let their drivers race each other. I think both Mercedes and McLaren (especially through the Ron Dennis years), are the only two teams to allow their drivers to do that, (in my opinion). I just don't ever realistically see Red Bull doing that same thing, unless there is a clear issue with their favourites car during the race.
 
I'm pretty sure Verstappen and Red Bull are creating drama just to keep it interesting.
 
Bahrain 3/10
Saudi Arabia: 2/10
Australia: 5/10
Baku: 3/10
Miami: 4/10
Monaco: 6/10
Barcelona: 2/10
Montreal: 5/10
Spielberg: 5/10
Silverstone: 5/10
Hungary: 3/10
Spa: 3/10

Would be a little better if the sprint would add to the GP but without just another 2023 race we'll forget.
 
toastet
Bahrain 3/10
Saudi Arabia: 2/10
Australia: 5/10
Baku: 3/10
Miami: 4/10
Monaco: 6/10
Barcelona: 2/10
Montreal: 5/10
Spielberg: 5/10
Silverstone: 5/10
Hungary: 3/10
Spa: 3/10

Would be a little better if the sprint would add to the GP but without just another 2023 race we'll forget.
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Ok, so let me get this straight, the worst race track for racing on the calendar has the highest ranking so far this season! Either your rating is a bit bias or this just speaks volumes to a sorry state of affairs in F1? 😐
 
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AshenGraey
Ok, so let me get this straight, the worst race track for racing on the calendar has the highest ranking so far this season! Either your rating is a bit bias or this just speaks volumes to a sorry state of affairs in F1? 😐
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The latter. Monaco was an interesting watch.
 
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The positive is all running cars finished on the lead lap, it feels the most competitive F1 has been even though cars can be spaced out which makes it less exciting. I think with the limited time for setup work and teams probably being conservative due to risk of plank wear on a track like this, the gaps to Red Bull were respectable given it suits their car so well.

Mercedes seemed to have went too low on downforce for Lewis, looked more suited to Monza. Needed something in between what George ran and Lewis had. Mercedes had bouncing again which is worrying, phenomenal purple last lap (44) by Lewis (44) given he was being shaken like a rag doll. It would have been funny if Max built up a gap to pit but his attempt at fastest lap was slower than Lewis as he probably wouldn't have enough of a gap to have fully energy usage.

Next track looks like Red Bull will have a much tougher time and I think there is a good chance a lot of teams being much more competitive. Sergio really needs to find a setup that works for him again so he can make the races more interesting against Max as it is not even a fight at the moment. He might struggle to qualify near him at the next track if he doesn't click with the car. Hoping by US Grand Prix the chasing pack have had their bigger final updates already installed so we might get more of a race for the remaining races.
 
AshenGraey
Ok, so let me get this straight, the worst race track for racing on the calendar has the highest ranking so far this season! Either your rating is a bit bias or this just speaks volumes to a sorry state of affairs in F1? 😐
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Guess you already figured out that the Monaco half-wet race was indeed the best GP in 2023
 
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I know season lengths are different but Schumacher's record would be the equivalent of Max taking the title in Italy. I think Max is projected to win it in Qatar, possibly in the sprint.
 
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Grayfox
Sainz blaming piastri, even through Sainz was the one that locked up and squeezed him
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I don't see Sainz directly blaming Piastri in his quote. Also, his quote is true. In just last 5 years, 2016 and 2019 had the same incidents. The lockup + squeeze did not cause the crash, three cars merging into 2-car space did. Just like 2016 and 2019, the 2023 is also a racing incident, caused by narrowing available space. The stewards were correct for not punishing anyone here.

Taking the inside line into lap 1 T1 here is asking for a racing incident to happen. This is a lesson which can be best learnt in person. Ask Verstappen, who now takes a wide outside line into lap 1 T1 after 2016 and 2019.

Please note just in case it was not clear-
1. No one was at fault. It is a racing incident.
2. What Sainz actually means- if someone is occupying that inside line, a racing incident will happen.
3. Piastri himself has called it a racing incident.

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This kind of incident happens all the time in GT7 Sport events at Spa.
 
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B
appu
I don't see Sainz directly blaming Piastri in his quote. Also, his quote is true. In just last 5 years, 2016 and 2019 had the same incidents. The lockup + squeeze did not cause the crash, three cars merging into 2-car space did. Just like 2016 and 2019, the 2023 is also a racing incident, caused by narrowing available space. The stewards were correct for not punishing anyone here.

Taking the inside line into lap 1 T1 here is asking for a racing incident to happen. This is a lesson which can be best learnt in person. Ask Verstappen, who now takes a wide outside line into lap 1 T1 after 2016 and 2019.

Please note just in case it was not clear-
1. No one was at fault. It is a racing incident.
2. What Sainz actually means- if someone is occupying that inside line, a racing incident will happen.
3. Piastri himself has called it a racing incident.

----

This kind of incident happens all the time in GT7 Sport events at Spa.
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But if the same thing happened on a lap other than lap 1, Sainz would have been found at fault by the stewards.
 
Grayfox
But if the same thing happened on a lap other than lap 1, Sainz would have been found at fault by the stewards.
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That’s a good point. Yes, it is possible that Sainz would have been at fault.

Too bad that we just have to accept stewarding decisions even though many of their decisions have made no sense to me.
 
Grimm6Jack
Why do people keep coming up with this thought? Sabotage the 2nd driver? What? Do you know that the Constructors Championship is what ultimately brings in the money to teams and not the Drivers?
Like, do you really know the inner workings of how a F1 team, a top F1 team at that, operates? This is being incredulous to ridiculous levels or just coping with something...

2016 and 2017, Daniel and Max were fairly equal, with Max actually having a lot more bad luck in 2017 despite being the faster driver, and finished behind him. In 2010 Vettel had more reliability issues than Webber, also despite being the faster driver.
All other seasons were just cases of one driver being better than the other. Or one side of the garage just not having the same luck with reliability or even incidents which just happen to be the side of the garage that had the slower driver.

With your line of reason, Mercedes was also equally a 1-man team from 2017 to 2021... In fact there's even more grounds to say this because there was a plethora of times where Bottas was simply not allowed to race Hamilton or to just let him pass, even for race wins on the line and he also had more mechanical DNFs than Hamilton.
Click to expand...
The quoted post you included here wasn't from myself.
 
Grayfox
But if the same thing happened on a lap other than lap 1, Sainz would have been found at fault by the stewards.
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Maybe... depends on what they saw in the magic 8 ball when they asked it.. the consistency of stewarding still far from a 'demonstration of excellence' or whatever rubbish Brundle was blabbering after the race trying to justify his 'enjoyment'.

My opinion Sainz was quite wide and cut far too aggressively right in to the apex - might get away with it being a 'racing incident' but 100% clumsy rookie style driving.
 
Sainz still avoided Hamilton who had to avoid Perez and brake earlier as expected due to Perez crossing the whole trackwidth twice. But yeah locking up and turning into Piastri was still rookie-style-error.

 
It was a poor start from Sainz, Perez was moving a lot, Hamilton was avoiding Perez, Sainz got too hot. Piastri had every right to be where he was and expect to not get pinched in to the wall. It's certainly a more blatant penalty than the Hamilton V Perez one.
 
toastet
Sainz still avoided Hamilton who had to avoid Perez and brake earlier as expected due to Perez crossing the whole trackwidth twice. But yeah locking up and turning into Piastri was still rookie-style-error.

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yep, Perez's swerving was pretty crazy - considering he just needed a decent clean exit from T1 and he would just cruise past and into the lead up the long straight.
 

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