Formula 1 Pirelli Gran Premio Del Made In Italy E Dell'emilia Romagna 2021Formula 1 

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Some cool photos shared by F1 today of the local residents, but this house looks as close as you can get now-a-days.
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Scaff

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Thanks for the history and explanation! It makes sense why it's beneficial to let cars unlap under a safety car or yellow flag. Apparenlty, my understanding of how a yellow flag actually works was incorrect. From my casual viewing, I was under the impression that wherever in the race order the safety car emerged is how the drivers lined up for the release after the safety car leaves the track. (Unless someone chose to pit.) I didn't understand that lapped drivers were allowed to essentially overtake to get themselves back onto the lead lap.

However, I still feel that a red flag/race suspension is a different scenario. You don't have to allow drivers back onto the lead lap to avoid the situation you describe. If everyone is released from the pit by position ranking and allowed the one formation lap to get up to speed there are no lapped cars impeding the leaders and prompting a blue flag at the restart. The leaders are in front of the lapped drivers. In this particular case, Verstappen would have had an entire track in front of him before he would have to lap another backmarker. Maybe I'm missing something; like I said, I'm very new to this sport. But I do know that this incident gives me the same feeling that the infamous "tuck rule" playoff game in the NFL did ages ago. Which, looking back on it, marks the decline of my interest in NFL football. I kinda hope this isn't another one of those moments for me for a sport that I just started taking interest in.
Think about it less as a lap gained back and more around the fact that the time differential between every driver on the restart has effectively been 'reset'.

In all honesty I wouldn't over-think it either, its not like this is a common occurrence in terms of something that affects race outcomes seriously, as others have said the rule has been in place for the best part of a decade and this is the first time a potential issue with it has occurred.
 

Jimlaad43

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I remember in the early 2010s when they kept trying it either way in terms of letting the lapped cars go through or not. There were races where lapped cars that stayed there just took all the excitement out of the restarts as they had to slam on their brakes on the inside of T1 basically because of Blue Flags, holding up anyone else trying to race and letting the leader blast off into the distance.

Eventually today's rule of letting them go at the expense of another 1-2 laps of Safety Car was chosen for both entertainment and safety reasons. Cars a lap down were getting their races ruined even more than the frontrunners who were getting their races ruined too. Essentially, it meant that a driver who had just been lapped by the leader and could have been in a pack of 4 cars battling for position was then not only a lap down, but was now having to let everyone - including the cars they were racing - pass in about 3 laps, thus putting everyone in danger by crawling around trying to let everyone through. If you put the cars in the Race order for a restart, then any passes are for position, and it's therefore worth watching the overtake. You may complain "oh it's for entertainment only", but don't we also complain when it's a boring race? This rule has been around for a few years now, and it's only because Lewis Hamilton benefited from it that the complaints have begun. If its you're opinion that letting cars unlap themselves behind the safety car is bad, why haven't we heard it sooner? Its not like this race has finally highlighted the one downside to it or anything, it just meant we got to see an entertaining recovery drive. The leader still blasted off into the distance, but nobody is complaining about that because it was Max this time.
 

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Just out of passable boredom, the podium only had two different numbers on it: three (Verstappen, 33) and four (Hamilton, 44; Norris, 4).

When was the last time that this happened?
 
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Whatever the analysis and verdict on the incident, Toto's words for Russell amount to pure blackmail. I can't understand how nobody is speaking about this. He could play the part of a movie Italian-american mobster saying "you don't mess with my boys or cars and maybe I won't have your legs broken and your life ruined ... "
 

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Just out of passable boredom, the podium only had two different numbers on it: three (Verstappen, 33) and four (Hamilton, 44; Norris, 4).

When was the last time that this happened?

A few in 1997 if you consider Michael Schumacher being disqualified discounts him from his podiums; car no. 4 Frentzen and car no. 6 Irvine were on the podium at Imola, Magny-Cours and Suzuka; car no. 22 Barrichello and car no. 6 Irvine were on the podium at Monaco.
 

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A few in 1997 if you consider Michael Schumacher being disqualified discounts him from his podiums; car no. 4 Frentzen and car no. 6 Irvine were on the podium at Imola, Magny-Cours and Suzuka; car no. 22 Barrichello and car no. 6 Irvine were on the podium at Monaco.
Didn't Schumacher drive #5 that year? That'd be three numbers in both cases - 4, 5, 6 and 2, 5, 6. Verstappen, Hamilton, Norris is only two - 3 and 4.

In the championship number era there's only a few possible two-number combinations. 1/2/12 (or 21) would do it, as would 1/11/anyteen, 1/12/21, 2/11/12, 2/11/21, 2/12/21 and so on. I don't recall when the last 30+ cars were running before the current permanent number era, but they'd add some more possibilities too.

A quick check of 1997 has #1 on the podium once (Hungary, along with 16 and 3), no #2 podiums, and no #3x cars to open up #3 as a possibility, so it didn't happen that season.
 
He didn't, BOT left a more than sufficient space. The problem is RUS was coming in from the left curve whilst moving right so it was an awkward angle and then hit the wet, white line which caused the swapper into BOT. He'd have been fine if the whole pit straight was actually straight and/or if the track was bone dry. Hence racing incident IMO.


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For me it's a case of Russel learning that's probably not a great place to over take in the future. I've no doubt if in that position again right there he'll remember what can happen, thus simply a racing incident and more gus fault if anyone is to blame.
 
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Hamilton is a great driver but also one freaking lucky son of a gun. That red flag saved him from a real low position.
 
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Hamilton is a great driver but also one freaking lucky son of a gun. That red flag saved him from a real low position.

They all have luck, including Hamilton. It was on his side today. And, because it's Hamilton, it's caused people to finally notice that lapped cars head around to the back of the pack at the end of SC periods.
 
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Didn't Schumacher drive #5 that year? That'd be three numbers in both cases - 4, 5, 6 and 2, 5, 6. Verstappen, Hamilton, Norris is only two - 3 and 4.

In the championship number era there's only a few possible two-number combinations. 1/2/12 (or 21) would do it, as would 1/11/anyteen, 1/12/21, 2/11/12, 2/11/21, 2/12/21 and so on. I don't recall when the last 30+ cars were running before the current permanent number era, but they'd add some more possibilities too.

A quick check of 1997 has #1 on the podium once (Hungary, along with 16 and 3), no #2 podiums, and no #3x cars to open up #3 as a possibility, so it didn't happen that season.

I went to check 1979, where Ferrari had #11 and #12, but when both Jody and Gilles were in the podium you never had Andretti or Reutmann (#1 and #2 for Lotus), car #21 didn't exist and car #22 (Ensign) never made it to the podium. No luck there ...
 

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Prost - Senna - Piquet (11/12/1) happened at the 1988 Australian GP, the second time that season that trio were on the podium.

Edit: Fisichella - Alonso - Button (2/1/12) happened at the 2006 Malaysian GP.

Edit 2: Alonso - Massa - Webber (1/5/15) happened at the 2007 European GP.

Edit 3: Verstappen - Riccardo - Hamiton (33/3/44) happened at the 2017 Malaysian GP.

Edit 4: Final answer: Hamilton - Verstappen - Riccardo (44/33/3) at the 2020 Eifel GP.
 
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Dotini

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For me it's a case of Russel learning that's probably not a great place to over take in the future. I've no doubt if in that position again right there he'll remember what can happen, thus simply a racing incident and more gus fault if anyone is to blame.
The way I saw it, Bottas could have avoided the accident by simply holding his line and not moving right.
 

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Just out of passable boredom, the podium only had two different numbers on it: three (Verstappen, 33) and four (Hamilton, 44; Norris, 4).

When was the last time that this happened?

Final answer: Hamilton - Verstappen - Riccardo (44/33/3) at the 2020 Eifel GP. So 6 months ago.
 
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The way I saw it, Bottas could have avoided the accident by simply holding his line and not moving right.

According to the Stewards, he didn't move an inch. It's the angle of the corner that makes it appear so. Even still, he left more than a car's width between them.

Russell acted like a proper buffoon afterwards, claiming if it were another driver Bottas wouldn't have done the same and the other nonsense falling from his mouth.
 
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Liquid

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Didn't Schumacher drive #5 that year? That'd be three numbers in both cases - 4, 5, 6 and 2, 5, 6. Verstappen, Hamilton, Norris is only two - 3 and 4.

In the championship number era there's only a few possible two-number combinations. 1/2/12 (or 21) would do it, as would 1/11/anyteen, 1/12/21, 2/11/12, 2/11/21, 2/12/21 and so on. I don't recall when the last 30+ cars were running before the current permanent number era, but they'd add some more possibilities too.

A quick check of 1997 has #1 on the podium once (Hungary, along with 16 and 3), no #2 podiums, and no #3x cars to open up #3 as a possibility, so it didn't happen that season.

I did say if you discount Schumacher because he was ultimately disqualified from the championship.

I've look hard for 1, 2, 12, 21 and 22 together but haven't found it yet.
 

Dotini

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According to the Stewards, he didn't move an inch. It's the angle of the corner that makes it appear so. Even still, he left more than a car's width between them.

Russell acted like a proper buffoon afterwards, claiming if it were another driver Bottas wouldn't have done the same and the other nonsense falling from his mouth.
Bottas admitted he moved to the right in order to defend as was his right and duty. So, by not defending he could have avoided the accident.

He was in a profoundly embarrassing lowly position, being passed by a Williams.
 
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Terronium-12

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Bottas admitted he moved to the right in order to defend as was his right and duty. So, by not defending he could have avoided the accident.

Then what the hell were the Stewards...? :lol:

As you can tell, I missed that revelation.
 

Dotini

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Then what the hell were the Stewards...? :lol:

As you can tell, I missed that revelation.
I didn't see or hear the stewards, but I did see Bottas's explanation. The funniest part was Wolff moaning about the cost of fixing his car. It seems as though there is a new Mercedes corporate policy to save money in F1.
 
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If you look at the onboard from Kimi's car it's really apparent that Bottas is moving to the right and has a lot of room to his left.

It's less clear if he's actually squeezing Russell off track or if Russell had enough room (barely) but went a little too far to avoid Bottas, but he's absolutely 100% moving right.

In the end I think it's a race incident with shared fault. Bottas shouldn't have defended so aggressively at those speeds and Russell did make the mistake of going on the grass.

As has been brought up though, Toto's comments about Russell regarding this is the bigger issue I think. He's as much as saying that Russell can't overtake Mercedes' cars if he knows what's good for him.

But also, what about Bottas' poor showing this race? Last properly wet race the apologists blamed it on lap 1 damage, but Hamilton suffered that this race and still charged back up the field from a 9th place. Toto won't badmouth his drivers but he's got to be kicking himself at this point.
 

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Despite all the fall out, I would put even money on Bottas and Russell swapping seats before the seasons out if the their pace continues s it is now.
 

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Prost - Senna - Piquet (11/12/1) happened at the 1988 Australian GP, the second time that season that trio were on the podium.

Edit: Fisichella - Alonso - Button (2/1/12) happened at the 2006 Malaysian GP.

Edit 2: Alonso - Massa - Webber (1/5/15) happened at the 2007 European GP.

Edit 3: Verstappen - Riccardo - Hamiton (33/3/44) happened at the 2017 Malaysian GP.

Edit 4: Final answer: Hamilton - Verstappen - Riccardo (44/33/3) at the 2020 Eifel GP.
Not an incredibly common occurrence then :lol: Seven times in 33 years is pretty unusual.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway.

Edit: I've also got Senna/Berger/Lehto (1, 2, 22) at San Marino in 1991.

Edit: What is with San Marino? This is the third one there - Prost, Schumacher, Brundle (2, 5, 25) in 1993!

Edit: Australia 94, with an inexplicable Mansell, Berger, Brundle (2, 28, 8)...
 
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McLaren

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I didn't see or hear the stewards, but I did see Bottas's explanation. The funniest part was Wolff moaning about the cost of fixing his car. It seems as though there is a new Mercedes corporate policy to save money in F1.
Because, tmu, there's a budget cap introduced and from what I've read, this expensive wreck technically eats into it.
 

Roo

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Not an incredibly common occurrence then :lol: Seven times in 33 years is pretty unusual.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway.

Edit: I've also got Senna/Berger/Lehto (1, 2, 22) at San Marino in 1991.

My list is by no means comprehensive, and I was just going for the most recent, so I'm sure there will be more.

The most recent occasion before the new numbering system came into effect in 2014 - as far as I can see - was 2010 Australian GP: Button - Kubica - Massa (1/11/7).
 
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The way I saw it, Bottas could have avoided the accident by simply holding his line and not moving right.

..and why exactly would/should he not defend?

Lots of accidents can be avoided by drivers not racing, but then as Monsieur Vettel once said, what are we doing here?
 
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Dotini

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..and why exactly would/should he not defend?

Lots of accidents can be avoided by drivers not racing, but then as Monsieur Vettel once said, what are we doing here?
I agree. And I did not say he shouldn't have defended. I said he could have avoided the accident if he had not defended. But he did defend because he was hired to defend and it was his job to defend. So it was monumentally arrogant, self-serving and hypocritical for Wolff to moan about the cost of fixing the car when he was paying his driver to defend, and not to avoid accidents.