Formula 1 Pirelli Gran Premio d'Italia 2024Formula 1

[Liquid]

It's 1983 all over again. Tambay and Arnoux won Ferrari the WCC but... let Piquet eek out his advantage in the WDC.

 

[ElectricNaz]

100% without risk. Slow down on the straight and let your teammate pass. They have don’t it before.

100% without risk on the last lap. Just before parabolica or even after, Schumy/Barrichello style before the line

 

[MagpieRacer]

I’d argue he already is in that position.

He’s 43 points ahead of Oscar and 63 behind Max. 🤷‍♂️

You don’t win championships like this. You just don’t.

I’m sorry, but if McLaren end up losing the drivers championship by points Oscar took from Lando in the second half of the season they will look like idiots.

And no, the constructors title will not make up for that.

Can't really define "Points Oscar took from Lando", you could equally say, "points Lando lost". Mclaren will be very content with the WCC should they win it.

 

[ElectricNaz]

He’s 43 points ahead of Oscar and 63 behind Max. 🤷‍♂️

And should be (at least) 63 ahead of Oscar and at most 53 behind Max if they'd played the team orders game properly in the 2 races (Hungary and Monza). There might be more examples as well but from before they realised they were in a title hunt.

 

[TumeK5]

Meanwhile, confirmation

Magnussen set for Azerbaijan GP ban after Monza penalty

Haas driver Kevin Magnussen is set for a race ban after being penalised for clashing with Alpine rival Pierre Gasly during the Italian Grand Prix, with the penalty points received tipping him over the limit for the season.

www.formula1.com

 

[MagpieRacer]

100% without risk on the last lap. Just before parabolica or even after, Schumy/Barrichello style before the line

Then look stupid as he moves off line and picks up a puncture and loses more places, or goes back to the throttle and loses the driveshaft or hydraulic pressure. On top of not deserving it anyway.

 

[GlamFM]

Then look stupid as he moves off line and picks up a puncture and loses more places, or goes back to the throttle and loses the driveshaft or hydraulic pressure. On top of not deserving it anyway.

Now you’re just making stuff up.

 

[ElectricNaz]

Then look stupid as he moves off line and picks up a puncture and loses more places, or goes back to the throttle and loses the driveshaft or hydraulic pressure. On top of not deserving it anyway.

Catches a puncture from going off line (how does any driver risk an overtake, that's so brave of them going off line especially with all the debris on the Monza track after all those crashes earlier in the race /sarcasm) or loses drive about 100 meters from the line?

Deserved or not, so many drivers titles or at least battles have been helped by team orders.

 

[McLaren]

I’d argue he already is in that position.

He’s 43 points ahead of Oscar and 63 behind Max. 🤷‍♂️

You don’t win championships like this. You just don’t.

I’m sorry, but if McLaren end up losing the drivers championship by points Oscar took from Lando in the second half of the season they will look like idiots.

And no, the constructors title will not make up for that.

I'm referring to this race specifically which you seemed to have conveniently cut out.

If Lando misses out on the WDC by 2 points he could've gained swapping w/ Oscar, it's really going to be because of more than just Monza.

 

[GlamFM]

I'm referring to this race specifically which you seemed to have conveniently cut out.

If Lando misses out on the WDC by 2 points he could've gained swapping w/ Oscar, it's really going to be because of more than just Monza.

How am I cutting it out? This race is what this thread is about.

To win this championship you have to maximize your results.

To do that you have to make sure your leading driver picks up as many points as possible.

It’s not rocket science 🤷‍♂️

 

[MagpieRacer]

Now you’re just making stuff up.

Catches a puncture from going off line (how does any driver risk an overtake, that's so brave of them going off line especially with all the debris on the Monza track after all those crashes earlier in the race) or loses drive about 100 meters from the line?

Deserved or not, so many drivers titles or at least battles have been helped by team orders.

And yet those are all things the team will be thinking of when making these calculations. Overtakes are calculated risks, that happen in typically the same areas of the track every time (making those areas cleaner and less debris/risk etc). Neither of you will like it but that is reality, all of those factors will be weighed up, IF, they were to think about doing it.

 

[MagpieRacer]

How am I cutting it out? This race is what this thread is about.

To win this championship you have to maximize your results.

To do that you have to make sure your leading driver picks up as many points as possible.

It’s not rocket science 🤷‍♂️

@McLaren is absolutely right though. Lando lost this race, it wasn't taken or given to someone else. Still finished ahead of Verstappen as well. If he loses by 2 points, crashing into Verstappen at Austria would be more to blame, bottling his Silverstone strategy wuld be more to blame, and who knows what else will happen.

There's 232 points up for grabs between now and the conclusion. Which also means Oscar isn't out of it yet technically speaking, If Lando messes up a couple races that Oscar wins, then Oscar becomes the lead driver, if he then wins the WDC by 2 points, will this Monza race suddenly become a masterclass in race management?

 

[MagpieRacer]

 

[McLaren]

How am I cutting it out? This race is what this thread is about.

You are cutting out the important distinction that McLaren made the right call gambling on Charles' being unable to sustain his tires vs. a call that would at best, net Lando 2 extra points.

As I just said, if Lando loses by 2 points to Max, it will not be because of Monza alone.

To win this championship you have to maximize your results.

To do that you have to make sure your leading driver picks up as many points as possible.

It’s not rocket science 🤷‍♂️

Which is something Lando has failed to do over multiple races. Swapping the drivers for Lando's benefit b/c of his own hiccup at the start for 2 more points that will not be the deciding factor in the WDC over the team making a safe gamble for more points overall that would benefit Lando as well is not a strong play given McLaren is in a much better position to win the WCC than Lando is for the WDC.

The team is going to ultimately put itself first in this instance & then they will likely start looking to put Lando in the best position to win a WDC.

 

[GlamFM]

@McLaren is absolutely right though. Lando lost this race, it wasn't taken or given to someone else. Still finished ahead of Verstappen as well. If he loses by 2 points, crashing into Verstappen at Austria would be more to blame, bottling his Silverstone strategy wuld be more to blame, and who knows what else will happen.

There's 232 points up for grabs between now and the conclusion. Which also means Oscar isn't out of it yet technically speaking, If Lando messes up a couple races that Oscar wins, then Oscar becomes the lead driver, if he then wins the WDC by 2 points, will this Monza race suddenly become a masterclass in race management?

It doesn’t t matter where the points come from.
If Lando loses this by a small margin people will not look at Silverstone or bad strategies but at the few times they let Oscar finish ahead of Lando to win absolutely nothing.

Today it wasn’t even for the win, but a worthless second place. Ridiculous.

 

[TumeK5]

Today it wasn’t even for the win, but a worthless second place. Ridiculous.

So...worthless or worth it?

 

[MagpieRacer]

It doesn’t t matter where the points come from.
If Lando loses this by a small margin people will not look at Silverstone or bad strategies but at the few times they let Oscar finish ahead of Lando to win absolutely nothing.

Today it wasn’t even for the win, but a worthless second place. Ridiculous.

So if it's worthless, what are you whinging about?

And no, people will absolutely look at throwing Silverstone away and driving into Max.

 

[GlamFM]

So if it's worthless, what are you whinging about?

And no, people will absolutely look at throwing Silverstone away and driving into Max.

Worthless for Oscar, but possibly crucial in the battle for the Championship. Didn’t think I’d have to explain that tbh. My bad.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Worthless for Oscar, but possibly crucial in the battle for the Championship. Didn’t think I’d have to explain that tbh. My bad.

Well as I said with so many points to for grabs, they're important for anyone, not just inflated egos.

 

[GlamFM]

Well as I said with so many points to for grabs, they're important for anyone, not just inflated egos.

Inflated egos? Come on now.

 

[MagpieRacer]

☠💀

 

[GlamFM]

☠💀

That’s an inflated ego if I’ve ever seen one.

 

[McLaren]

Worthless for Oscar, but possibly crucial in the battle for the Championship. Didn’t think I’d have to explain that tbh. My bad.

If Lando wants to make a run for it with 8 rounds left, he's going to have to actually secure leads on his own efforts & force the team to prioritize his race.

Oscar will not step aside for him, esp. since he has shown he's capable of making a run for wins as well and he will not be giving those up for Lando.

 

[GlamFM]

If Lando wants to make a run for it with 8 rounds left, he's going to have to actually secure leads on his own efforts & force the team to prioritize his race.

Oscar will not step aside for him, esp. since he has shown he's capable of making a run for wins as well and he will not be giving those up for Lando.

That’s perfectly fine if you just want to drive around and not win the championship.

If you do want to win it you HAVE to prioritize the driver who has:

A: a healthy lead over his teammate

and

B: an actual (slim) shot at winning the championship.

I know we have gotten used to very one sided seasons where team orders were rarely necessary, but if you go way back to seasons of the Schumacher/Hill or Alonso variant you see what is needed to win close championships.

And we don’t have to go that far back to remember Perez letting Max straight up pass or RB deploying the slow pit stop strat to secure a ridiculously slim WC win over Ham.

I like Oscar too and I find Lando a bit obnoxious, but still…

McLaren are playing this wrong.

 

[NotThePrez]

Going off topic from the current conversation, I'm honestly a little surprised that KMag is actually getting a race ban. Historically, it's always felt like the FIA would do whatever they reasonably can to not make that call with other drivers.

Granted, KMags race craft has, to put it nicely, not been the greatest this season, so it's not undeserved imo.

 

[JDMKING13]

Great race!! What is McLaren doing though… They have a driver who’s been with them through the hard times… He’s in a real championship battle and they are acting like the points don’t matter… SMH.

 

[PaMu1337]

Going off topic from the current conversation, I'm honestly a little surprised that KMag is actually getting a race ban. Historically, it's always felt like the FIA would do whatever they reasonably can to not make that call with other drivers.

Granted, KMags race craft has, to put it nicely, not been the greatest this season, so it's not undeserved imo.

KMag just got to a point where the FIA didn't have anything left they could reasonably do to prevent a ban.

 

[GlamFM]

 

[Grayfox]

View attachment 1385780

With 2 more points Kmag should receive a race ban exceeding his allowed penalty points. Bearman in the Haas at Baku?

In theory its a race ban, but the FIA dont want to be seen as bannning someone as it does not look good for the sport

 

[MagpieRacer]

In theory its a race ban, but the FIA dont want to be seen as bannning someone as it does not look good for the sport

F1 have already confirmed it.