Formula Money - Driving Popularity

[Ardius]

It sure helps a lot though, I mean the typical example is Spain or Germany - before Alonso came along apparently no one even cared about F1 at all in Spain. But now its close to being one of the top popular sports (in terms of followers) in Spain. Of course, the European hours and the more accessible tracks (Catalunya was already a GP venue for 10 years before) also helped.

But the catalyst for change is the driver, it gives the media something to report, it gives people a name to remember - more importantly it gives people a reason perhaps to tune in at such odd hours.

I agree though that whatever popularity is achieved is going to be limited by the time differences. Its hard to see F1 totally leaving Europe (lets face it, there is forever going to be at least 5 European races) and while more GPs are appearing globally, that also means a shift to earlier races in the east just as much as more GPs in the west. Perhaps the best that can be hoped for is that some channel actually commits to showing full highlights later in the day for the US?

 

[StockCarRacer]

An American winning Formula 1; now that gives F1 a presence in America and he (the American F1 racer) would be one of the most recognizable athletes in America.

 

[niky]

Sadly, despite your fixation, what Ardius has said still holds... you don't have the proper feeder series in the US to produce a successful F1 driver, not unless they spend a long time in Europe building up for it.

Right now is too late to start. It will possibly take several years to produce a driver that would meet the requirements.

What the US needs is a feeder series as good as (or better than) F3, which allows American drivers to pit themselves against stiff international competition. CART/ChampCars produced some good ones, such as Juan Pablo Montoya (yes, he's not American), but it is, sadly, gone.

Indy could produce F1-worthy drivers... or it would if they ran the series on more road-course racetracks than ovals and allowed more aero.

 

[StockCarRacer]

Sadly, despite your fixation, what Ardius has said still holds... you don't have the proper feeder series in the US to produce a successful F1 driver, not unless they spend a long time in Europe building up for it.

OK, I admit that, but why don't I?

 

[niky]

I don't know what's wrong with US feeder series. Maybe there's a lack of competition from outside the US... a baseline to measure against. That's what CART was great for... it attracted drivers from Europe and South America who did well and pushed local drivers to do better.

I don't know about the foreign-local mix in Indy Cars now, though.

 

[Northstar]

Indy could produce F1-worthy drivers... or it would if they ran the series on more road-course racetracks than ovals and allowed more aero.

The problem with Indy really isn't Ovals, it's more that the talent level is rather low. It seems to be the go to place for drivers who couldn't get to F1 or made it but couldn't run competitively. Not to mention even if it was a feeder series it wouldn't produce many U.S. drivers, at the 2011 Indy 500 there were only 11 U.S. drivers on the grid. Of those 11 none seem to excel at the road courses.

As for other feeder series', they exist but don't get much support since they are rather costly. A season of F2000(lowest in the Road to Indy program) costs around 125K to run 1 season. Compare that to 1/4 mile oval racing which costs a fraction of that.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

That's not a question I can answer with any certainty ... but if I had to speculate, then I'd say no. I seriously doubt that Formula 1 will be able to compete with other major sporting events, like the Superbowl, World Series baseball and the Indianapolis 500.

Open wheel racing in the United States gets less coverage than womens' golf. No one gives a S about it in the grand scheme of things.

I wouldn't put the Indy 500 in the same sentence as the Superbowl, World Series....heck not even in the same paragraph.

I hate to be a pessimist, but an American F1 driver competing for or eventually winning the World Drivers Championship would be an on-and-off sports story of note over the course of a season in the U.S. You want to know what Americans care about? Watch Pardon the Interruption and Around the Horn. Now try to imagine Formula 1 sliding into that thick slate of NFL/college football, MLB, NBA/college basketball, golf, boxing, MMA, and sporadic NASCAR and soccer coverage....will. Not. Happen.

Americans, for the large part, love situational sports. 4th and inches. Bottom of the 9th inning with a full count. 1 stroke up at the final hole at Agusta. The need to make 2 freethrows to win the whole NCAA tournament. They love savouring the anticipation of a play, the rush of emotion from all that pent up waiting, the roar of the crowd.

Just ask soccer or hockey fans in the States whether their extended friend circle is into their constantly-moving, hard-to-pin-down sports. The answer is usually "no". Formula 1 is almost the ultimate constantly-moving sport. The barrier to entry for someone who prefers situational sports is a huge cliff.

~

The huge interest void F1 sees in the US is part of a vicious cycle, partly due to how F1 works itself:

For a talented driver from a lower series to make it up to F1, he needs sponsorship backing.
American companies who sell to Americans know that F1 is not popular, so they won't spend money backing a US-born driver with sponsorship

The pent-up and demonstrated interest for advertisers needs to be there, and it isn't.

 

[StockCarRacer]

The huge interest void F1 sees in the US is part of a vicious cycle, partly due to how F1 works itself:

For a talented driver from a lower series to make it up to F1, he needs sponsorship backing.
American companies who sell to Americans know that F1 is not popular, so they won't spend money backing a US-born driver with sponsorship

The pent-up and demonstrated interest for advertisers needs to be there, and it isn't.

Oh, now I get. I see that before Fernando Alonso, a driver from Spain had no sponsorship from his native homeland. For example, Spanish companies who sell to Spaniards knew that F1 before Alonso wasn't popular and they didn't spend money until Alonso came along. Santander, a Spanish bank, didn't become involved in Formula 1 until the nation saw interest in F1 via Alonso.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

I see you're trying to be cute, but make no mistake: European country X, Y, or Z /= America.

You're trying to turn my own example back on me by substituting Spain i nthere, but you missed the very basic fact that there has always been an audience for F1 in Europe as part of the sporting fabric of the continent from the mid-century. The U.S. is largely a void of interest in F1.

 

[StockCarRacer]

The U.S. is largely a void of interest in F1.

In the words of United States Grand Prix promoter Tavo Hellmund: "Austin is more of an F1 crowd than of a NASCAR crowd."

 

[peter_vod69]

In the words of United States Grand Prix promoter Tavo Hellmund: "Austin is more of an F1 crowd than of a NASCAR crowd."

Why do you think he might say that?

 

[Ardius]

Oh, now I get. I see that before Fernando Alonso, a driver from Spain had no sponsorship from his native homeland. For example, Spanish companies who sell to Spaniards knew that F1 before Alonso wasn't popular and they didn't spend money until Alonso came along. Santander, a Spanish bank, didn't become involved in Formula 1 until the nation saw interest in F1 via Alonso.

No, there were several racing drivers with sponsorship from Spanish companies before Alonso (Pedro De La Rosa with Repsol sponsorship, for example). But there were comparatively less for the majority of junior drivers when we compare it to say German or Italian drivers at the time.

But as Mike said (and Blitz) there are a range of problems that mean simply having an American Alonso isn't going to change things on its own. Though it would help provide a catalyst, or rather an ignition for things to maybe change.

But considering what Mike has said, it isn't likely to happen ever (the US dramatically becoming interested in F1).

 

[Blitz24]

No, there were several racing drivers with sponsorship from Spanish companies before Alonso (Pedro De La Rosa with Repsol sponsorship, for example). But there were comparatively less for the majority of junior drivers when we compare it to say German or Italian drivers at the time.

But as Mike said (and Blitz) there are a range of problems that mean simply having an American Alonso isn't going to change things on its own. Though it would help provide a catalyst, or rather an ignition for things to maybe change.

But considering what Mike has said, it isn't likely to happen ever (the US dramatically becoming interested in F1).

I might be wrong in saying this but its more likely that NASCAR's viewership would grow in European countries if they got a very successful driver there (from a particular country) than if the same were to happen for an American driver in F1. Its going to take decades for America to become more interested in a sport with zero American cars and 1 American driver.

 

[StockCarRacer]

Why do you think he might say that?

Because that is what he thinks.

I might be wrong in saying this but its more likely that NASCAR's viewership would grow in European countries if they got a very successful driver there (from a particular country) than if the same were to happen for an American driver in F1.

I strongly disagree with this opinion.

 

[Blitz24]

I strongly disagree with this opinion.

And why is that?

 

[StockCarRacer]

And why is that?

Because that is a weird opinion.

 

[Blitz24]

Because that is a weird opinion.

Its not a weird opinion, it comes from the exact opposite idea of what you are saying. That an American driver in F1 would increase American interest. People have presented the reason as to why F1's popularity might be difficult to achieve in America (and the tire debacle at Indy did not help it) and now I'm presenting an opinion that maybe if a Sebastian Vettel, Lewis Hamilton or any type of F1 star in NASCAR that its European fan base would increase and possibly bring sponsorship.

 

[Alex.]

Because that is a weird opinion.

That isn't a valid reason for writing off someone's theory.

 

[StockCarRacer]

now I'm presenting an opinion that maybe if a Sebastian Vettel, Lewis Hamilton or any type of F1 star in NASCAR that its European fan base would increase and possibly bring sponsorship.

Don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

 

[Blitz24]

Don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

Okay, and your reasoning is what? Some members gave reasoning to why your idea won't happen so where is your reasoning for this?

 

[StockCarRacer]

Okay, and your reasoning is what? Some members gave reasoning to why your idea won't happen so where is your reasoning for this?

My reasoning is that having a Euro in NASCAR would be like having a Euro in V8 Supercars.

 

[Blitz24]

My reasoning is that having a Euro in NASCAR would be like having a Euro in V8 Supercars.

That doesn't really explain anything then. If anything, that solidifies why an American wouldn't receive as much of a fan-base boost if he were to join F1.

 

[StockCarRacer]

OK, I know for a fact that Japan loves Formula 1.

 

[Blitz24]

OK, I know for a fact that Japan loves Formula 1.

And the connection to my point is......?

 

[StockCarRacer]

And the connection to my point is......?

The connection is that Japan has had several F1 drivers in recent years and millions of Japanese tune in to F1 races and know what the sport is.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

Why is F1 flatlining in Japan?

 

[Cap'n Jack]

My reasoning is that having a Euro in NASCAR would be like having a Euro in V8 Supercars.

European drivers have come down to Australia to compete in the V8 Supercar endurance races and recently the Gold Coast 600 for years now. It might not be a full season but the drivers from that part of the world are very welcomed down here by not only the grid but the fans. Denmark's Allan Simonsen, for instance, has competed in these events for quite a while and even in our national GT championship and is a very well received driver. I'm sure there would be no complaints down here by anyone if any of these drivers were to compete in the series full time. And a bit further from Europe, Brazil's Max Wilson competed in the series for a few years in the early-mid 2000's and was quite popular.

 

[Blitz24]

I see you're trying to be cute, but make no mistake: European country X, Y, or Z /= America.

You're trying to turn my own example back on me by substituting Spain i nthere, but you missed the very basic fact that there has always been an audience for F1 in Europe as part of the sporting fabric of the continent from the mid-century. The U.S. is largely a void of interest in F1.

OK, I know for a fact that Japan loves Formula 1.

You're doing exactly what you did on the last page, comparing America with Japan now. America ≠ Japan just like America ≠ Spain or Germany. Japan also had manufacturers in the sport recently (Toyota and Honda, both of whom pulled out). Just curious, were you alive the last time an American manufacturer actually participated in Formula 1?

 

[Northstar]

Just curious, were you alive the last time an American manufacturer actually participated in Formula 1?

Everyone on this forum was.

Granted they were based in the UK, but Jaguar was owned by Ford at the time. GM and Chrysler have never really shown interest in F1.

 

[Blitz24]

Everyone on this forum was.

Granted they were based in the UK, but Jaguar was owned by Ford at the time. GM and Chrysler have never really shown interest in F1.

I was referring to one of the actual American manufacturers, not one based in the UK.