Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

Discussion in 'Forza Motorsport 4' started by hennessey86, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. hennessey86

    hennessey86

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    Edited by Scaff to add

    OK I am re-opening this thread this in the hope that by providing an area for discussion of the merits of both series it will help stop these discussion occurring in other threads and dragging them off-topic.

    However I feel some clear ground rules need to be put in place.

    The first and most obvious regards the AUP. Every single post will be expected to follow the AUP, any AUP violations will result in action being taken by the staff.

    However I want to clarify a few points in this regard:

    • Opinion is not fact - don't present it as such
    • Argue the point don't attack the person making it
    • The term 'fanboy' (including any and all derivations) is banned
    • Accusations of 'Troll' simply because you don't like what someone says are also out
    • If you make a claim back it up with sources - fail to do so and you will be asked to provide them
    • Don't just post up pictures and video without any form of meaningful comment. This is a discussion thread not a picture/video gallery. Offending posts will be deleted on sight.

    The staff reserve the right to amend and adjust the above as often and in any way we see fit, we also will operate this thread as a zero tolerance one. You will not get a warning, rather it will go straight to infractions or bans (temp or permanent), so think before you hit that post button.

    Discuss away, but play nicely.


    Scaff




    This is a blog I did on N4G, which I thought I would post on here too. After reading some of the articles on N4G I feel compelled to do a comparison piece because some of the comments and reasons given are pathetic. I'm level 32 on GT5 and 62 on Forza 4, the reason I'm not level 40 on GT5 is because when I was making space on my hard drive for my free games off Sony I stupidly deleted my save file and had to start again. But I think level 32 still makes me qualified to give this comparison a fair go. I race with a Fanatec GT2 and I'm pretty sure half the people who talk about physics on this site race with a pad. I'm not going to talk about graphics because they are irrelevant when it comes to racing games. I will be comparing things important to a sim racer. If you think you are a sim racer and you race with a wheel read on, if not and you race with a control pad. Then your opinions mean jack.

    When it comes to physics both of these games fall short when compared to PC sims but they do a god job considering the limited consoles they run on. Both games do a good job of simulating how a car reacts to input from the driver and both games do a fairly good job when it comes to set up options for your chosen car. You can change camber, toe, ride height etc. on both games. In my opinion Forza does a better job when it comes to physics, I can feel more through the wheel. I can feel the under steer building up and you get a good feel of how much grip the tires have. With GT5 the feeling is mute, the wheel has a good weight to it but that’s it, there is no feel for what the car is doing, you have to judge visually and through sound rather than feel what the car is about to do. To me that is what makes a good car, the amount of feel and the connection with it. If you can't judge what the car is doing how can you have the confidence to drive it fast? GT5 is a good game but the real driving simulator needs to concentrate on driving, not on getting the right stitching on the leather seats of premium cars.

    Another important aspect of racing is sound, if you love cars you will know what I’m talking about. The sound of a V8, a straight six and a V12 are my personal favorites and a racing game needs to get this right, GT5 doesn't, the cars sound electronic and not at all like the engines they are supposed to be. Forza on the other hand sounds stunning, V8's sound like V8's and V12's sound like V12'S. The tire noise is also some of the best I have come across. You can hear when they are about to lose grip and when you are pushing a bit too hard.

    Forza is also the choice if you race offline, the A.I are far better at racing than GT5's counter parts. They will overtake you, make mistakes and generally feel like they are being driven by another person. GT5 on the other hand feels like the A.I cars are following a train track which they rarely move off, which makes for very straight forward victory’s which isn’t realistic. GT5 does include night racing, weather and a really good rally mode which I wish they would have put more effort into because the driving model is excellent. But there isn't enough races to make it a substantial addition the game, it just feels like an afterthought. The night racing is good but the rain effects are poor. Colin McCrea 2005 had better rain effects last gen, again it seems like they just added it right at the end just to get it into the game. Wet roads don't look wet and the spray off the tires makes your car look like it’s made of heat haze. I remember the Tokyo track on Forza 1 which was set at night, so I don't get why they couldn't include night racing in 4.

    The selection of cars is poor on GT5, there aren’t enough new cars. The Bugatti Veyron is standard, yet they have made the Suzuki cappuccino premium. Forza's selection is much broader, you have an abundance of new cars like the new Ferrari FF, Gumpert Apollo, BMW M5, 599 GT0, Aston Martin ONE-77 and many more and they all sound amazing. I also might add that this is the first game to nail the McLaren f1 engine sound, which is a big plus for me as it’s my favorite engine sound ever.

    My winner is Forza because it feels better, sounds better, and has more cars that I want to drive. GT5 is a great game and if you only have a PS3 then you’re not going to be too disappointed, if you like racing games though, I would highly recommend getting a 360 and Forza 4

    With the new 900 degrees patch the cars feel much harder to control and there is now no assist when on simulation mode. The physics feel better now as well.
     
  2. FosterG

    FosterG

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    Well Hennessey86, I race with a pad and I know my opinion means jack :dopey: But I agree with you on most points. I started playing GT5 a year ago and have logged many hours on it, it is a fun game, but I got Forza4 and an Xbox two weeks ago and sad to say but my Ps3 has been on once in that time. I just love the Forza car selection and hope that PD gets the message on the points you have made as I am sure many feel the same way. Nice write-up, now excuse me as I have to get back in this [​IMG]
    and hit the road, man does this thing sound good. :)
     
  3. hennessey86

    hennessey86

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    Dont take it personal mate, it was aimed more at the morons over on N4G who seem too no everything about everything. I used to race with a pad myself but once you get a wheel you would never go back to a pad.
     
  4. Zoom!Zoom!

    Zoom!Zoom!

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    Forza 4 offline is better if you like short races but I've had some very close endurance races in GT5. Both fall shorts when it comes to actual racing. Both has too many 2-3 lap races. Both I have to race inferior cars to get a descent race. When it comes to racing on the console F1 2011 blows both Gt5 and Forza 4 away.
    This is referring to offline. Online always depends on those you are racing with as online racing requires people respecting others.
     
  5. 331 LX

    331 LX

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    I will have to agree with you on F1 2011.
     
  6. limesutam

    limesutam

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    I like forza 4 because it's nothing like gt 5

    and I mean that in a good way.
     
  7. FosterG

    FosterG

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    No offense taken, just threw it in for laughs. One of these days I am going to do it right and get a wheel, then I am really going to go nuts :dopey:.
     
  8. Wolfe

    Wolfe Premium

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    I know you said you were addressing the morons at your other website, but I'm confused by this. Your physics discussion boiled down to "they're both pretty good," and this quote has nothing to do with physics, you're just describing force feedback on your wheel. So why disparage the opinions of pad users in the first place, if your opinion isn't any different?
     
  9. omgitsbees

    omgitsbees

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    Forza 4 blows GT5 away. I just love all of the customization that FM4 has and how much freedom it gives you to play the game the way you want. I really appreciate how every feature makes sense, is complete, and well rounded. I get the impression that Turn-10 really thought carefully about everything they put into the game and tried very hard to strike a perfect balance between how well the game performed and how well it looked and played.

    Polyphony Digital just kinda shoved features into the game without understanding that implementing things like day/night cycles and weather on a very complex and huge racing simulation would create a huge number of problems that players would have to suffer through. Like inconsistent frame rate, and numerous and very long load times.

    Forza 4 doesn't suffer from any of this because Turn-10 didn't get carried away. They just focused on delivering a real fun racing game with a well balanced and thought out track and car list where everything was finished at launch. No having to wait one year to get the game we all paid for and were promised.

    I keep trying to go back to Gran Turismo 5 and play it for at least a little bit each week, especially when the Online Event List is updated; but whenever I do, the whole thing just becomes a chore to play, and is a huge pain in the ass. You can't customize anything and you are at the mercy of the horrible, overly aggressive A.I. and you can't tweak any of the difficulty settings, or anything period really. Seriously, **** that game.
     
  10. ShylockHolmes

    ShylockHolmes (Banned)

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    Exactly how I feel about gamepad players, I wish there was an option to kick them from your lobby. It'd be great if T10 implemented a gamepad icon beside their name.

    In Crysis Wars on the PC you can set a lobby to gamepad only. Lets have FM4 wheels only option!
     
  11. hennessey86

    hennessey86

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    Physics are about recreating how a car acts and feels and I can feel more through the wheel on Forza 4.
     
  12. FosterG

    FosterG

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    I feel the same way about much of what you said, I got Forza4 three weeks ago and have played GT5 once in that period ... for about three minutes! I really did not expect to get the Forza bug like this but I have. I like both games but I think Forza4 is just better.
     
  13. artboy76

    artboy76 (Banned)

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    Really, what is your problem?

    Every time you post you are taking pop shots at how some folks play this game. Big deal you have a wheel set up, well done, i do too but cant use it as often as i'd like cause my xbox is in the lounge where the big TV is, so most of the time i just kick back and use a pad to race...... the fact you try to alienate pad users, or 'casual' gamers cause you have no life outside a computer game is frankly highly annoying, ive not come across one forum idiot yet on here and i was enjoying this site and its banter....then you piped up.

    If someone wants to use a pad online in races then who really cares??
     
  14. omgitsbees

    omgitsbees

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    Someone wanna loan me the $400 or whatever it costs for a Fanatec? :p I only have a Logitech DFGT and it doesn't work on the Xbox 360!
     
  15. zr1chris

    zr1chris

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    Here, I got $370 for you.

    That should be enough for the CSR package deal after you add the cost of shipping and tax.

    BTW, don't forget to pay me back. :p
     
  16. omgitsbees

    omgitsbees

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    Woot! You're the bestest zr1chris <3
     
  17. ShylockHolmes

    ShylockHolmes (Banned)

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    /have a kleenex. Your insults so hurt my feelings :) My wheel works on a big TV too.

    If wheel racers want to race together it's really none of your business, now is it?
     
  18. Talon Lardner

    Talon Lardner

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    But why does having a wheel vs only having a controller have to be a big deal? I've seen people online knock people off the road and being abusive on the microphone that had the best wheel on the market, while I've also seen controller users who had great sportsmanship and were superb racers. The game may be funner with a wheel, but that doesn't make controller users not worthy to race with.
     
  19. artboy76

    artboy76 (Banned)

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    Exactly, simply Turn 10 wanted to make using a controller viable because they made a game and wanted pad users to still be able to enjoy the game. Its that simple business sense that means Forza will still be around in years to come, and its the reason there will never be a game called Shift 3.

    I had no choice but the set up my wheel everytime i wanted to play Shift 2 cause the game with a controller was unplayable.
    Its actually nice to sometimes just sit back and paint some cars, take some pictures and then just blast around with a pad, without the need to always HAVE to set up my wheel.

    Its this simple choice which is where Turn 10 get my credit. To try at every post to start a 'wheel user vs pad user' battle is both childish and pointless.......

    :banghead:

    Nope its not. But you said pad users shouldnt be allowed to race with wheel users and they should be kicked from lobby................... i'm disagreeing with you as i dont care who is using what in a lobby, just so long as they dont smash me off the track at the first chance....... that should be the only real concern online....not the persons choice of controller.....:irked:
     
  20. shawtyoner

    shawtyoner

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    I have to say I have really been enjoying FM4. Now that I actually have a proper wheel to play FM (had rubbish MS wheel before). In previous FM versions, I played them for some time but soon enough, I always went back to GT. Maybe because I just had a better wheel to play GT with, maybe because I was just a tad bit biased because of how much I loved the GT series. But now with FM4 and a Fanatec GT2 wheel, I am just loving this game.

    I do switch back to GT5 from time to time, also using the Fanatec wheel instead of G25, mainly just to hot lap the Ring and some other tracks I like, but FM4 really has my attention now, overall its just a better package. GT5 has its strong points but fell short in some areas. There just seems like there are more things to do in FM4 and the cars feel and sound great.
     
  21. shawtyoner

    shawtyoner

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    So I have been jumping between FM4 and GT5 a bit more lately, and every time I do, I feel I am working so much harder to control cars in GT5 than in FM4. For example:

    The 1980 Lotus Esprit Turbo, in GT5 I believe its the 1987 Esprit Turbo HC. Both bone stock. Not sure how different these 2 cars are, but lapping them around the Top Gear test track proved way more difficult in GT5.

    Whereas in FM4, the Lotus was way more compliant and planted to the ground, in GT5, I had to fight that rear end from swinging around almost every corner, having to be more mindful of my lines and braking points, keeping the wheel in a neutral position as much as possible. Could it be that FM is making it easier, or that GT is making it harder? In FM i feel like I really need to over drive it to unsettle the car.

    I have saved replays of both laps, I will try to upload them if I can, I have never uploaded video before. Any thoughts as to why this is?
     
  22. BarronGeddon

    BarronGeddon

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    I think forza is a little forgiving in cars like that. Those cars are twitchy as hell IRL.
     
  23. cuco33

    cuco33

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    My understanding is those 2 Lotus cars you tested are different cars entirely. The newer one received a better new rear suspension design, more power, different weight distribution, etc on an existing chassis. You'd need to do apples to apples comparisons than these 2 Lotus cars which are very different even if they look very similar. The mk4 VW R32, the E92 M3, the Mercedes Benz 190Evo2, Audi S4, VW Rabbit GTI, etc are prime candidates for like for like comparison between the 2 games.
     
  24. rocketcaron

    rocketcaron

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    If I compare real world 350Z to GT5 350Z, GT gives you less grip than real life. And my assumption is that its pretty much the same for most of the RWD cars in GT5. Forza gives a more realistic amount of grip IMO.

    Where GT is more realistic and probably the reason why I still play it is weight transfer. Get sloppy and GT5 will make you pay for it and that may be part of why the grip is lesser from the rear. They both did not strike the right balance yet with weight transfer vs grip from tire is what I mean.:odd:
     
  25. imported_20832

    imported_20832

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    I'm sooo tired of the whole GT5 vs. FM4 Battle.

    Both games have their advantages and both their disadvantages.
    GT5 could've been better and FM4 could've been better. Simple as that.

    I really have to go with Forza on the Car Selection which really outnumbers the GT5 one. If GT5 would've got only one RX7 FD, only one Skyline R34 GT5 would barely have 600 Cars. And also the selection of tracks (Real Life ones) is better in Forza.

    BUT the menu is much more cleaner and easier to understand, the track FM and GT share are better in GT.

    I would really say both are as good as each other but could've been better.
     
  26. IMO, its because the FM4 tire model has a larger span of loss of grip progression than GT5.

    As pointed out by someone in another thread, the GT5 model is like they use a very stiff tire sidewall model.
    This produces little progressive span between grip and no grip.
    Where as FM4 has a less stiff tire sidewall model which does produce more progressive span between the two.
    Hence, you have more warning and reaction room to stay between grip and no grip.


    ^This is another reason.
     
  27. Wolfe

    Wolfe Premium

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    One thing that stuck out pretty quickly in my experience with GT5 is that mid-engined cars are all really wild under braking, seemingly with no regard to size, weight, 4WD/RWD, etc. They should certainly be capable of becoming unsettled, but from playing the game you'd wonder why you don't see more of them adorning trees in the countryside.

    Sometimes it feels natural because you'd expect it from a particular car, but at least with the "Standard" cars, the handling traits of the different drivetrain layouts are pretty canned and uniform. They hardly feel any different to me -- a symptom of being rushed into the game. If the Lotus is a Standard in GT5, I'd say that would help explain ShawtyoneR's problem.
     
  28. slick1ru2

    slick1ru2

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    Both games have their pros and cons. I find it unbelievable that Forza doesn't have any night driving or rain. I also find it just as unbelievable that GT5 doesn't have online or offline multi-class racing. I have the Le Mans! club on GT Planet and was holding weekly races earlier this year. Trying to get multi-class races, that were fair, was pretty impossible.

    I like GT5's online B spec racing. Hiring a driver in Forza 4 is ridiculous, they take 3/4 of the winnings.

    I like both GT5's used car dealer (and online dealer) along with Forza's auctions and storefront.

    If anything, I can see the hardcore racing fans complain that Forza is too easy. They throw CR at you and offline races are very winnable by average players. Compare that with getting gold on some of the GT5 Special Events. And GT5, before online Seasonal Events came out, payed out a small fraction that Forza 4 does.

    I'll give Forza a slight edge in car selection, I don't think they look as good as GT5's (especially interior materials) but are very close. But yes, some newer cars and a greater selection of older muscle cars. Don't know why Forza doesn't have the original Ruf CRT Yellow Bird though.

    Sound? Well GT5 may have a more realistic sound in that there is a difference between interior (transmission whine) and exterior (muffler/engine) signatures while I don't hear any difference with Forza when I change to the exterior camera. Forza does do a great job with sound effects when passing under signs or through tunnels that GT5 doesn't. Yeah, Forza cars all sound like muscle cars, lol. I just don't know that if its the true sound of said car.

    Right now, Forza is new to me, I just got my XBOX a couple of months back so that is what I am playing. I did get the GT5 DLC, but haven't done much with it. I don't know if I will get the next one though unless its something I really want, not just TC versions of cars already in the game.

    As for the A.I., Polyphony Digital did release an update on the A.I. this summer. Forza's A.I. seems like its blind. I often get rear ended or knocked off the road. I don't know if its more realistic but it definitely is more aggressive and careless.

    And everyone knows that FMS is superior in the livery editing department.

    I like both and from what I am seeing from Slightly Mad Studios, pre-Alpha Project C.A.R.S. is going to include the best points of both in one game, hopefully at the end of next year. Until then I will be enjoying Forza 4 along with several other racing/driving games like GT5, Shift 1 & 2, Forza 3/4, TDU2 (patch finally came out for PS3) and Grid.

    [​IMG]

     
  29. t.o.

    t.o.

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    Nothing "unbelievable" about not having night or rain. The guys just switched to a new lighting model for FM4 which has done a great service to the look of the game. I would expect some time before they can start getting fancy with it and learn the tricks to get more out of it. The 360 isn't a Cray Supercomputer. At this point in it's life you have to do more finagling to get more performance out of it. That takes time rather than just using the straight API's.

    GT5 not having multi-class was a head scratcher though. I thought for sure it would have been in the game. That, among other things, all but killed any idea of having our ALMS series on GT5.

    B spec just didn't do it for me. I tried it a few times, had some initail "wow that's pretty cool" experience with it but it worn off VERY quick. Hiring a driver in Forza is not ridiculous at all. Why should a guy get anywhere near full, hell half credits for pressing a couple of buttons and walking away eating Cheesedoodles while another guy actually does the race. Do the race, get the cash. Don't do the race , get some chump change.

    CR's compare to the price of cars. Some of these cars are like 10 million credits and you're not getting that kinda cash overnight. Offline races are giving some people hell on the Forza's boards. Depends on what difficulty you're at and skill. Your "average" player is not gonna to cake walk through Forza 4 on it's most difficult setting. Believe me. Just strange that you compare getting gold on some GT5 special events to "offline races" in FM4 without setting any parameters. If I'm not mistaken there is more than just "gold" in GT5. Bronze is about as easy as showing up and signing your name in those events.

    Mixed bad on car selection. FM4 gets the edge in that there are more cars that people want to drive in it. All cars are of the same quality which happens to be top notch.

    Maybe they didn't have access to the Yellow Bird in time and they didn't want to fake it. Seeing as it's as important of a car to be singled out maybe they want to get it right or not at all.


    Yep, sure sounds like a muscle car to me.... lol

    Sorry , but when it comes to sound there isn't even an argument. Forza just kills in every way possible. And it's not even close.

    Maybe because the xbox is new to you and you're still in GT5 mode. That's why I gave GT5 a good amount of time to impress me. After the "wow" factor of a new game wore off I just started to see what the game really was , then gave it even more time, and it just couldn't hold up to me.

    I really haven't tried the AI much with the update in GT5. Can't comment on it. Can only read from the impartial about it and even though I heard it's somewhat improved it still leaves LOTS to be desired and not close to what FM4 is doing. One thing you said is false with FM4's A.I. is that "they" ram in the back of you. "They" don't do that. Each car has independent AI attributes which dictate how they drive. Couple that with the car they are in and you get random action on the course. One thing I've found out is you rarely get rammed if they "see" you. I've seen the AI do some great braking when I've definitely put my car where I shouldn't have and in the same race see another AI driver not be able to stop in time or another just too aggressive.

    Superior implies that there is competition. FM4 is just IT! lol

    I too am very interested in that C.A.R.S. Just need to see the race elements. It's looking good though. Might be the game to get me into PC racing.
     
  30. slick1ru2

    slick1ru2

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    Project C.A.R.S. is coming to all consoles per a Tweet I got from them on the subject. Its in pre-Alpha now and people can join and actually help shape the game. C.A.R.S. stands for community assisted racing simulation. This is the simulator the racing community is helping to shape. I've seen alpha build footage that looks better than iRacing.

    https://twitter.com/#!/slightlymadteam/status/139063474260160512

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIk8ys-KdFE

    And t.o., you come off a little fan boyish. Just saying. GT5, when it came out, so consumed me that I dropped my relatively new Madden 11 and NCAA 11 leagues along with every other game I was playing. I formed a club on GT Planet and was holding organized races weekly and recruiting members. That was ALL I played, for about 10 months. And I still have friends a year later that no matter what time I log on, seems they are playing GT5. My new friends on XBL aren't. Forza 4 hasn't had that effect, it seems, that did on me and many others. I don't see hordes online like with GT5. I just started doing multi-class racing the past week and keep running into the same handful of players (and no, not the A.I ones, lol). I NEVER run into the same people playing GT5 online. Its not like the people I run into in Forza live close, many are in the UK or opposite U.S. coast or I that am being matched due to my poor connection. Perhaps part of it, the seemingly lower amount of fanatical players, is because its so easy to obtain cars in Forza. In GT5, its an elusive quest to get all the cars. Forza, its not. I get to level 50 driver and higher up in brand affinity and its a pot of gold. Those cars that are in the millions, besides not having to save vast sums while I monitor and hope they will show in the used lot, I can just purchase with real money in a show room. And when I said that Forza is easier to win races, I meant on comparable settings. There are races in GT5, on the"easy settings", you have to go to the internet to find a way to win. I have yet to see that in Forza and I am level 72. There is nothing in Forza that compares with the degree of hardness of say, the Sebastion Vettel Challange or NASCAR overtaking events. I can win with cars out of the box in Forza, in GT5 several events will find you trying to discover a car/tuning combo that will win. And for the difference in credits, you do a 24 hour race in GT5 and you get like 400k CR. After you hit level 50 in Forza, I can't imagine how much money you could receive in 24 hours of racing. Speaking of that, GT5 has endurance racing online and offline up to 24 hours. I guess the PS3 is a supercomputer for having that. The reason I saw that Forza doesn't is they didn't want the frame rate to drop. Since I've seen solid 30 fps games like Shift 2 that look good, I thought that a head scratcher. If they could do it and not drop below 50 or 45 fps, I would prefer night maps and adverse conditions.