Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

[imported_FuzzyFassbender]

Stating 'I don't mean to include everyone' doesn't excuse such a scathing generalization.
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Don't take it personal. Just read some of the new comments in the news section regarding the latest update and you may see where I was coming from. I realize the most vocal are most likely the minority and the "immature" as I stated (my opinion). When you are part of a group or movement sharing the same interest some of the bias goes unnoticed. I played a number of the GT series games going back to the original Playstation and only recently gave the FM series serious seat time (late FM3 and FM4). Most of my virtual racing, going back to the dawn of time , was done on PC's. I have no reason to support one developer or game over the other. I have both console systems and play the one that is most current with the content that is of interest to me. My comments where just my "perception" of the GT crowd - nothing more.

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I think you have this the wrong way round. PD and Kaz are under pressure to release DLC because of games like Forza. I can guarantee you that if Forza was not around PD would not have announced a 2-month DLC release cycle.
...

Competition is a good thing and I hope PD and T10 keep pushing each other. That is why having both systems is great for the virtual racing enthusiasts.

There is a thread over on GTPlanet with the title "DLC a knee jerk reaction to forza 4?". The comments in this thread enforces the notion that many GT'rs are living in a cocoon oblivious to anything not GT. But it is also very interesting that the latest seasonal is titled "Stars and Stripes"! Just saying...

 

[cuco33]

I think you have this the wrong way round. PD and Kaz are under pressure to release DLC because of games like Forza. I can guarantee you that if Forza was not around PD would not have announced a 2-month DLC release cycle.

PD are very old fashioned in their dev style. It's outside pressure forcing them into the current trend of micro-transactions and DLC, not something that has come from within the core of the company.

That is why they are struggling with this new model. It's not something that comes naturally to them. Christ they've only just worked out how to spread DLC across accounts, and actually had to patch the game to add DLC support! That's how last minute this has all been for them.

Now I'm not a blind PD fanboy. I love Forza and have barely touched GT5 since it came out (although I will for a bit now 2.02 is out), but peoples perceptions are skewered on either side of this argument.

I disagree for the most part.
When PD first announced 'the next GT game' they tried to introduce a paid DLC model. Mind you this was around the time the PS3 wasn't even in the market yet and DLC wasn't a normally practiced means in the industry. PD wanted to release a very basic game and have a handful of cars and tracks and then charge per car and per track via DLC. They got flacked massively by the media and the fans for it because a 'full fledged' version of the game with all the content would have cost somewhere around $1000. PD pulled this idea entirely. Fast forward to other racers (and games) with DLC models this gen and GT5's launch state requiring all these patches over the year+ from launch. GT5P was patched some 3 major times last I checked which included free cars and free tracks. PD has released 'free DLC' as well as charged DLC. Their 1st paid DLC included 2 new tracks to the game and in my book the only worthwhile DLC. The other stuff was crap. Racemods of existing cars in the game, a few model tweaks to an existing fictional X1 and 3 new fictional karts made up the car pack. Paint chips (), race suits and helmets ()... And this latest update has an FT86II concept which only means to get it is if you purchased multiples of the last DLC!!

I do think because of Forza, NFS, and other racers with DLC, that PD looked at the DLC route and decided to hop on the bandwagon. Fans want more content so why not deliver it and get paid for it in the meantime? I'm all for DLC so long as it's not crap like racemods of existing cars or paintchips

I'm not trying to sound like a Forza fanboy. I love both games and still play both quite a lot but PD to me has moved GT in not the best means before GT4 was even launched. I think GT5 could have been the pinnacle console racer out there, but isn't due to all the mismanagement that took place, the very questionable decisions that PD has made, and the issues still present in their GT5 title even after all the updates. It is what it is. I'm not sure if I'm going to get this DLC yet. I don't care for another Skyline and Mini Cooper S but the 'rocco R and Golf R, essentially the same car, might get me as I'm a big VW fan

 

[BarronGeddon]

[DELETED]

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Why are these kind of comments tolerated?

Because it is not against the AUP and you are not a moderator?

Thanks.

 

[SuperShouden]

Lets compare something that exists across three console generations to something that mainly exists on one.

Very valid argument pal, very valid.....

When people run out of actual reasons to criticise the game they turn to "this isn't a labor of love...like GT", or "this has no soul...unlike GT which is like a child of Kaz"...or best "This is too well rounded...clearly just a response to market demand unlike GT which was a personal work of art"

Umm...I think you missed my point.

That might be because Forza games are released bi-anually and not twice every decade, so it takes much less change per game to move with the times.

Also, are you comparing the development that happened across three console generations to the one that happened across two? Really? And, last but not least, does it make a game better if it changed a lot from the predecessor? Is that what constitutes quality? I don't think so.

Nope. Completely overhauling a game each time doesn't guarantee a great game. I think GT5 is proof of that. But...same goes for changing a little at a time. You do have a point on the bi-annual release times of Forza compared to the long development cycle of GT.

Forza and GT and like Coffee and Tea. Both are great.

 

[Scaff]

Why are these kind of comments tolerated?

Because Forza Planet allows all posts to be made under one simple provision, that they do not break the AUP.

That post doesn't break the AUP and as such I don't see why you have an issue with it.


Scaff

 

[Scaff]

that's caused by minor lag, happens in every game.

are you running tomorrow on suzuka?

Yes

cool, see you on the track

Forza Planet is not a chat room - please don't use it as such. You want to talk about stuff like race meet-ups then take it to a PM.


Scaff

 

[Luminis]

Reasoning out why a situation is occurring is not the same as making excuses for.

It sure sounded like that

This is purely your speculative opinion. On the official Forza forums there were huge threads full of applause and thanks for that fix.

Try to remain objective.

Compare what you're reading about this patch here, on FMPlanet and what has been written about it on GTPlanet, and I guess you'll see what I'm talking about.

I've got to admit, I don't visit FM.net anymore, at all.

/edit:
I'm kinda temped to mod a mod right now, but I guess I better don't Just kidding

 

[omgitsbees]

Every time a new GT comes out it's like a new generation of car.

This isn't even remotely true. GT5 was barely an improvement over GT4, if anything GT4 is actually better still.

 

[Wolfe]

This isn't even remotely true. GT5 was barely an improvement over GT4, if anything GT4 is actually better still.

Gran Turismo 5 is overwhelmingly better as a simulator, but GT4 is the better game. I think most would agree with that.

Also Shouden's metaphor hardly implies the newer game is better every time. For a relatively objective example -- hopefully to avoid stirring up arguments -- consider some of the '80s/'90s cars sold with classic Detroit nameplates. Dodge Challenger (4-cylinder Mitsubishi rebadge), Plymouth Duster (Plymouth Sundance with a minivan V6), Mercury Cougar (short-lived FWD compact based on the Ford Contour)...

 

[hennessey86]

Gran Turismo 5 is overwhelmingly better as a simulator, but GT4 is the better game. I think most would agree with that.

Also Shouden's metaphor hardly implies the newer game is better every time. For a relatively objective example -- hopefully to avoid stirring up arguments -- consider some of the '80s/'90s cars sold with classic Detroit nameplates. Dodge Challenger (4-cylinder Mitsubishi rebadge), Plymouth Duster (Plymouth Sundance with a minivan V6), Mercury Cougar (short-lived FWD compact based on the Ford Contour)...

I agree, but I would go even further and say the best in he series was GT3. I have very fond memories of that game and don't remember ever getting bored. GT4 was just GT3 with more cars and tracks and it got boring very wuickly after the amount of hours I put into GT3.

 

[Wolfe]

Well GT4 was unplayably understeer-oriented for me, so I have to agree. GT3 was also the first one I played (GT1 and GT2 I only tried out of retro curiosity), so I guess I have to admit I was only ever a "GT fan" for one game in the series. But boy did I play the crap out of it.

 

[Terronium-12]

I'm curious of one thing: does PD have any idea how to utilize their own features?

4 new 2 new, 2 rehashed cars and nary a single one can be race modified. Why even bother re-introducing the RM feature if you aren't going to do anything with it?

 

[cuco33]

I'm curious of one thing: does PD have any idea how to utilize their own features?

4 new 2 new, 2 rehashed cars and nary a single one can be race modified. Why even bother re-introducing the RM feature if you aren't going to do anything with it?

PD will just charge you later for the racemod versions of these cars
I think the only 2 things I want from the GT5 DLC is the Golf R and the Scirroco R and that's only cuz I like both of them. Would be nice to do a comparison between the two cars. The Cooper S and yet ANOTHER /Skyline GT-R is just well... 🤬

 

[Vaxxtx]

I'm curious of one thing: does PD have any idea how to utilize their own features?

4 new 2 new, 2 rehashed cars and nary a single one can be race modified. Why even bother re-introducing the RM feature if you aren't going to do anything with it?

That is standard with PD. Think about these 1/2 dont or not fully implemented features:

Cars.
Weather.
Day/Night.
Head Tracking.
3D.
Tuning.
Upgrades.
Wheel changes (even with new update cannot change rims on all cars).
Online/Offline physics.
Clutch support.
Leaderboards.
And of course Race Modifications.

Nothing is consistent. Nothing is fully done. Do the updates, or DLC really surprise anyone? PD is a prime example of 1/2 assed, IMO.

 

[Wolfe]

They probably didn't really want to bring the RM feature back, they only did so because everyone kept begging for it.

It's not like GT has a livery editor, so they have to make the RM skins themselves. They probably just see it as extra work and time they could be spending on something more productive, like new swirly/fading/swooping menu animations, a system to adjust the posture and steering/shifting habits of your driver (a la Tourist Trophy), HD textures on the buttons of the vending machine in a new photomode location they're working on, compiling a new list of licensed songs that vaguely reference a car in at least one lyric for GT6, programming in windshield fogginess based on ambient conditions for the track and a realistic defroster function that depends upon engine temperature...

 

[hennessey86]

Well GT4 was unplayably understeer-oriented for me, so I have to agree. GT3 was also the first one I played (GT1 and GT2 I only tried out of retro curiosity), so I guess I have to admit I was only ever a "GT fan" for one game in the series. But boy did I play the crap out of it.

I grew up with GT from number 1 but now I am definitley more of a forza fan

 

[Luminis]

They probably didn't really want to bring the RM feature back, they only did so because everyone kept begging for it.

Dang, forcing a developer to develop a game the way the fans want, that's harsh, isn't it?

 

[GT6mebe]

What's sad is reading how.people went off buying another paint dlc pack just to access the ft86ii concept... and this has a blacked out cockpit... sheesh.

Its black because it was a prototype where the cockpit was never modelled or built...a cockpit for the car does not exist so instead of making it up PD left ot blank..... similar to the Nissan GTr prototype I think.

They probably didn't really want to bring the RM feature back, they only did so because everyone kept begging for it.

This. I think they did not want the bring the RM feature but wanted to implement production car racing namely the FIA GT series. A couple years ago I remember seeing a presentation by KY saying some of the features he wanted to implement in Gt5 or Gt series in the future....these included FIA GT and DTM series, a livery editor, car clubs, a track editor, online lobby's and were races can be watched etc. In fact the FIA and DTM series were originally planned for GT5 as KY has said. Therefore without these series the next best thing would be RM's for production car racing.

 

[cuco33]

Its black because it was a prototype where the cockpit was never modelled or built...a cockpit for the car does not exist so instead of making it up PD left ot blank..... similar to the Nissan GTr prototype I think.

strange... I thought this was the prototype interior of the FT86II:

So really, no excuse...
Now we have another disparity... a premium car with a standard interior... yeeeeesh

This. I think they did not want the bring the RM feature but wanted to implement production car racing namely the FIA GT series. A couple years ago I remember seeing a presentation by KY saying some of the features he wanted to implement in Gt5 or Gt series in the future....these included FIA GT and DTM series, a livery editor, car clubs, a track editor, online lobby's and were races can be watched etc. In fact the FIA and DTM series were originally planned for GT5 as KY has said. Therefore without these series the next best thing would be RM's for production car racing.

Many of the cars you can race mod (RM) in GT5 are not FIA GT type of cars. Cars like the Honda Civic, the mk4 VW Golf, the Suzuki Cappuccino, the Toyota Prius RM they charged you for (), etc. RM idea came from the original GT games on PS1 and is a feature fans have wanted back in. I'm guessing that this was PD's way to counter Forza's livery editor and to give the fans something they've asked for since GT2.

 

[Luminis]

Not to mention that DTM cars, for example, aren't exactly made out of exisiting road cars. They just resemble them, vaguely.

 

[HAL20XX]

Forza and GT and like Coffee and Tea. Both are great.

I started thinking about this and for me it's very true.

Forza for me is Coffee. I drink it black and love it that way. Sometimes it's a little bitter, can even taste bad at times, but I love it all the same. I keep coming back for more. It's hearty and full of flavor.

GT is tea. Sometimes I'm not in the mood for coffee, so I think, "I'll have some tea. I remember really liking tea." I take a few sips and think, "Not bad. It's not like my coffee, but it's good." Then halfway through it starts to get cold. All the flavor that I tasted at the beginning is now just water with a hint of that taste that used to be there. I really want to like it, but I can barely finish a single cup.

 

[Vaxxtx]

I started thinking about this and for me it's very true.

Forza for me is Coffee. I drink it black and love it that way. Sometimes it's a little bitter, can even taste bad at times, but I love it all the same. I keep coming back for more. It's hearty and full of flavor.

GT is tea. Sometimes I'm not in the mood for coffee, so I think, "I'll have some tea. I remember really liking tea." I take a few sips and think, "Not bad. It's not like my coffee, but it's good." Then halfway through it starts to get cold. All the flavor that I tasted at the beginning is now just water with a hint of that taste that used to be there. I really want to like it, but I can barely finish a single cup.

. That was clever.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

I started thinking about this and for me it's very true.

Forza for me is Coffee. I drink it black and love it that way. Sometimes it's a little bitter, can even taste bad at times, but I love it all the same. I keep coming back for more. It's hearty and full of flavor.

GT is tea. Sometimes I'm not in the mood for coffee, so I think, "I'll have some tea. I remember really liking tea." I take a few sips and think, "Not bad. It's not like my coffee, but it's good." Then halfway through it starts to get cold. All the flavor that I tasted at the beginning is now just water with a hint of that taste that used to be there. I really want to like it, but I can barely finish a single cup.

I started thinking about this too and then immediately realised I don't like coffee or tea.

 

[zr1chris]

This may be old news but this is the first time I noticed this... Has anyone else noticed the track diagram in the dash?

 

[GT6mebe]

strange... I thought this was the prototype interior of the FT86II:

strange.....I thought that was the interior for the FT86 I concept interior.

Many of the cars you can race mod (RM) in GT5 are not FIA GT type of cars. Cars like the Honda Civic, the mk4 VW Golf, the Suzuki Cappuccino, the Toyota Prius RM they charged you for (), etc. RM idea came from the original GT games on PS1 and is a feature fans have wanted back in. I'm guessing that this was PD's way to counter Forza's livery editor and to give the fans something they've asked for since GT2.

Firstly its like FIA not spec wise but in the sense that their production vehicles. The RM's and TC's are used in many competitions on GTplanet as they look like race cars can be customised to a decent extent and are fair competitively.

If the RM idea was introduced in GT2 before Forza was even dreamt off how are they trying to counter Forza's livery editor

If your talking about GT5 then your wrong again. PD could of easily implemented many more RM's but they had not planned to because off the inclusion of FIA and DTm series but the latter was removed or was not finished by launch.

This may be old news but this is the first time I noticed this... Has anyone else noticed the track diagram in the dash?

Yeah it is. I you notice the one in GT5, the track changes depending on what track you are on as shown in the above video.

 

[HAL20XX]

Race mods were available in GT1 and GT2. They disappeared in GT3. Either way, I don't see it being a counter to the livery. If anything, the horribly implemented paint swatches are.

 

[cuco33]

strange.....I thought that was the interior for the FT86 I concept interior.

I wouldn't think that the interior of a concept changes dramatically, or at all, seeing as the exterior didn't change all that much from ft86i concept to ft86ii concept. Now we have another inconsistency.

Premium cars w/premium interiors
Premium car w/blacked out standard interior
Standard car w/blacked out standard interior
Standard car w/low quality modeled interior, i.e. open cockpit vehicles

I'm not buying 2x DLC just to get a concept car in GT5 but I wonder if this has working wipers w/'premium' windshield splash effects or if it resorts to the standard method of no wipers and no 'premium' windshield splash effects?

Firstly its like FIA not spec wise but in the sense that their production vehicles. The RM's and TC's are used in many competitions on GTplanet as they look like race cars can be customised to a decent extent and are fair competitively.

If the RM idea was introduced in GT2 before Forza was even dreamt off how are they trying to counter Forza's livery editor

If your talking about GT5 then your wrong again. PD could of easily implemented many more RM's but they had not planned to because off the inclusion of FIA and DTm series but the latter was removed or was not finished by launch.

Yeah it is. I you notice the one in GT5, the track changes depending on what track you are on as shown in the above video.

I mentioned it as a possibility for 2 things, not just as a feature to compete against custom liveries. 1st off, RMs disappeared in GT3/GT4 and came back in GT5 which launched after FM1/2/3. Why bring them back? I liked the RM idea and enjoyed doing it on cars in the first GT games. I figured every car would not be race moddable but 19 out of "1031+" cars at launch was a laugh especially when the race mods were being counted as new cars (padding up them numbers some more). Then the DLC was launched and they gave you 11 more race mods that they charged you for as part of the car pack.

Any proof of PD not implementing more RM because of the unsuccessful inclusion of FIA/DTM? Or is that an assumption on your part? I actually would like a race mod feature in Forza, by adding race specific setup, maybe a widebody and a different configuration than what's possible in the tuning/upgrades menus.

 

[Luminis]

If your talking about GT5 then your wrong again. PD could of easily implemented many more RM's but they had not planned to because off the inclusion of FIA and DTm series but the latter was removed or was not finished by launch.

"Not finished at launch."

This pretty much sums everything in GT5 up, doesn't it? It's what I hear about every other feature, really. "This isn't finished, they couldn't get that done, and the time was too short to implenent these things, too."

Who the hell cares?! About two percent of the cars can be race modified, that's the bottom line, isn't it? I absolutely do not care about the intentions PD has anounced somewhen. I mean, I've read a lot of things from PD and Kazunori, and a lot of that was just that, talk ("Expect perfection", anyone?).

So, really, what is all of that talk supposed to achieve, aside from making excuses? Prove that PD has been oh so busy and trying oh so hard? C'mon, that doesn't change a thing about what we've actually got on our hands, no?

I really am fed up with the whole "PD tried so hard" stuff, I've heard the "it's not their fault" line often enough, but does it change a thing about the actual game? No, not really, right?

And, last but not least: Couldn't we make a load of excuses for T10, too?

I swear, I do feel inclined to post something like "yeah, T10 would've loved to put dynamic time change into FM4 but they couldn't do so because they were forced to release the game within just a two year period!!" everytime someone starts to talk about that missing in FM4.

 

[hennessey86]

"Not finished at launch."

This pretty much sums everything in GT5 up, doesn't it? It's what I hear about every other feature, really. "This isn't finished, they couldn't get that done, and the time was too short to implenent these things, too."

Who the hell cares?! About two percent of the cars can be race modified, that's the bottom line, isn't it? I absolutely do not care about the intentions PD has anounced somewhen. I mean, I've read a lot of things from PD and Kazunori, and a lot of that was just that, talk ("Expect perfection", anyone?).

So, really, what is all of that talk supposed to achieve, aside from making excuses? Prove that PD has been oh so busy and trying oh so hard? C'mon, that doesn't change a thing about what we've actually got on our hands, no?

I really am fed up with the whole "PD tried so hard" stuff, I've heard the "it's not their fault" line often enough, but does it change a thing about the actual game? No, not really, right?

And, last but not least: Couldn't we make a load of excuses for T10, too?

I swear, I do feel inclined to post something like "yeah, T10 would've loved to put dynamic time change into FM4 but they couldn't do so because they were forced to release the game within just a two year period!!" everytime someone starts to talk about that missing in FM4.

very true, it seems that these gt fanboys re very quick to point out what forza is lacking but defend gt to the hilt when it concerns its faults. The fact is turn 10 have done a stunning job in the 2 years they have had to get this game ready. In the five years gt5 was in development can you say the same, no. It came out unfinished after 5 years.