Forza 4 VS GT5 (read the first post before you contribute)

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Goshin2568
But Forza has the opposite problem, which you are not acknowledging, the wheel never gets heavy! It's light or waaaayy light.
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When does any modern car really get that heavy unless your driving an old model like an F40 or F1 then yes the steering should be heavy. But in your everyday hatchback or even modern supercars have nice light but direct steering. I am not saying Forza is perfect but in my opinion its better then GT5
 
I don't know about this "heaviness" that people are saying FM4 is lacking. I do know that in my everyday 6cylinder real-life driver I don't experience this heaviness that's so extreme that it'll break my hands off at the wrist. Infact I pretty much can and do drive my car with two fingers and the palm against the wheel with the other hand free. The other hand only touches the wheel when I'm taking a turn with some decent speed and that's pretty much just for control and stability in the turn but has nothing to do with how heavy the wheel is. Is there some resistance as the wheels are trying to center themselves? Of course, but nothing that'll wrench my arm from it's socket.
 
hennessey86
I have been playing GT5 since day 1 and your right you can feel elevation changes, but transition to over steer or under steer has zero effect on FFB. The wheel is either heavy or errrrrrrrrr heavy. The FFB is Forza is great, I can feel everything through the wheel which is what makes great cars great to drive. Honestly I don't see why there is any arguement, GT5 was better than Forza 3, now Forza 4 is better than GT5. If GT6 can release before Forza 5, I am sure it will be better than Forza 4 and for those of us who play both games that is a fantastic prospect.
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This is all your opinion and I respect it 👍. I like GT5 better but it doesn't mean FM4 is not good. Its a great fun game. I don't agree with the oversteer comment the understeer I understand any FM4 gamer playing GT5 hating the understeer numb feeling. In GT5 you have to go by the tire sound and the screen In FM4 the understeer feeling is amazing. I still feel that I get more information in GT5 though, but the tire physics in FM4 have me drooling so does the ABS system.
 
Scaff has described this well. The actual strength of the self aligning torque is governed by a range of things, from steering and suspension geometry to tyres. But the relative progression of the torque is the most important thing.

I've got a DFGT, a wheel designed for GT, and frankly GT5's FFB is pretty terrible. There's very little feel. It's much easier to go fast with the FFB off, actually, which tends to indicate to me that the FFB isn't giving me any useful information at all. It's fluff, it adds to the experience but does nothing for the actual driving.

Turn the FFB off on a game with good FFB and it becomes much more difficult to go fast because you're missing data about your grip levels.
 
Scaff and hennessey, could you do me a favor and post what wheels you use and what settings on the wheel and in game you use?

This whole disagreement could just boil down to settings differences causing us to feel completely different sensations through the wheel.
 
How is it that when I take a stock Barracuda around a track in Forza, it feels like I'm driving a barge with stupidly soft tires and mushy suspension. When I take an old vette out in GT5, the feeling isn't really there.
Not sure if it's the physics or the visuals making it feel more real but going to GTAcademy/gt5 after months of fm4 just feels wrong.
Also, I can't stand the feeling of the six axis or the ds3 anymore. The thumbsticks are so loose. There's no resistance to them.
 
Goshin2568
Scaff and hennessey, could you do me a favor and post what wheels you use and what settings on the wheel and in game you use?

This whole disagreement could just boil down to settings differences causing us to feel completely different sensations through the wheel.
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Fanatec GT2
900 degrees
FFB 90
shock 100
drift off
abs 75
 
Imari
Scaff has described this well. The actual strength of the self aligning torque is governed by a range of things, from steering and suspension geometry to tyres. But the relative progression of the torque is the most important thing.

I've got a DFGT, a wheel designed for GT, and frankly GT5's FFB is pretty terrible. There's very little feel. It's much easier to go fast with the FFB off, actually, which tends to indicate to me that the FFB isn't giving me any useful information at all. It's fluff, it adds to the experience but does nothing for the actual driving.

Turn the FFB off on a game with good FFB and it becomes much more difficult to go fast because you're missing data about your grip levels.
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Very true. FFB in GT5 is very immersive and adds a lot to the experience but actually tends to screw up your driving with lots of tossing around in order to make you feel the bumps on the road (played an lot with DFP and now with GT2). Remove or just reduce FFB in GT5 and the result, albeit being a much less fun experience, actually helps having more efficient driving lines. Remove (or even lighten) the FFB in Forza 4 and cars become much much harder to drive due to the lack of feedback.

Of course, there's still the issue of the non-linear steering in Forza 4, but that is another matter. FFB in Forza 4 is significantly improved from Forza 3 (can't speak about Forza 2 as I didn't have an xbox compatible wheel at the time).
 
HBK
Very true. FFB in GT5 is very immersive and adds a lot to the experience but actually tends to screw up your driving with lots of tossing around in order to make you feel the bumps on the road (played an lot with DFP and now with GT2). Remove or just reduce FFB in GT5 and the result, albeit being a much less fun experience, actually helps having more efficient driving lines. Remove (or even lighten) the FFB in Forza 4 and cars become much much harder to drive due to the lack of feedback.

Of course, there's still the issue of the non-linear steering in Forza 4, but that is another matter. FFB in Forza 4 is significantly improved from Forza 3 (can't speak about Forza 2 as I didn't have an xbox compatible wheel at the time).
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I just don't get this I have a CSR (made for FM) and I can feel everything when driving. elevation changes bumps weight transfer engine rumble when playing GT. I also have a DFGT(made for GT) which I don't use anymore because it feel like a toy compared to my CSR. The only thing FM4 kills GT5 in is tire physics. When it comes to natural driving GT5 wins in my opinion and now that I use engine rumble with GT5 FM4 feels dead.
 
Turn off the ABS(on CSR wheel) when you play GT5 then you will get engine rumble effect when your on the gas. Its controlled by the SHO I use 60, It will make GT5 come alive! FM4 has engine rumble but it is very weak compared to GT5 making the wheel feel dead unless you hit high RPM. For some reason people with CSR don't know you can get engine rumble effect in GT5 Its a really good feature and the main reason I love Fanatec. 👍
 
TJDAWG
Just a quick question for you. Do you mean turn ABS off on the wheel or on the game?
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Sorry on the wheel. 👍 These are my settings for GT5 try it. It will make the wheel feel alive during your game play however the understeer effect still cannot be compared to FM4 its very subtle. Other than that though you will feel everything.

IN GT5 I use
GT5(FF 6)
SEN 0
FF 100
SHO 60 (effect engine rumble)
DPR -3
SPR -3
ABS off(this gives the wheel the engine rumble effect amazing)
LIN 0
DRIFT 0
 
jdmking13
I just don't get this I have a CSR (made for FM) and I can feel everything when driving. elevation changes bumps weight transfer engine rumble when playing GT. I also have a DFGT(made for GT) which I don't use anymore because it feel like a toy compared to my CSR. The only thing FM4 kills GT5 in is tire physics. When it comes to natural driving GT5 wins in my opinion and now that I use engine rumble with GT5 FM4 feels dead.
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Yeah, the wheel rumble in GT has defenitely increased the enjoyment of simply driving the cars for me. I don't understand why it's not strong in Forza. So far, after trying the Skyline R34 on Suzuka in both games, GT5 does feel a bit more natural to me when it comes to driving. However, I still want to test more cars with different drivetrains, but that's the vibe I'm getting right now.

But when it comes to racing, Forza all day.
 
MuoNiuLa
Yeah, the wheel rumble in GT has defenitely increased the enjoyment of simply driving the cars for me. I don't understand why it's not strong in Forza. So far, after trying the Skyline R34 on Suzuka in both games, GT5 does feel a bit more natural to me when it comes to driving. However, I still want to test more cars with different drivetrains, but that's the vibe I'm getting right now.

But when it comes to racing, Forza all day.
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:lol: No doubt man as long as we are having fun. When FM5 come out I am praying they have day,night, weather and transitions. I was driving on the ring yesterday and it was so intense for the fact of it just turned night when I joined the room. The ring at night is a completely different beast and this is something I would like to experience in FM.
 
jdmking13
Sorry on the wheel. 👍 These are my settings for GT5 try it. It will make the wheel feel alive during your game play however the understeer effect still cannot be compared to FM4 its very subtle. Other than that though you will feel everything.

IN GT5 I use
GT5(FF 6)
SEN 0
FF 100
SHO 60 (effect engine rumble)
DPR -3
SPR -3
ABS off(this gives the wheel the engine rumble effect amazing)
LIN 0:
DRIFT 0
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👍👍👍
:
Alright man. I'll have to give those settings a try:tup:
 
jdmking13
:lol: No doubt man as long as we are having fun. When FM5 come out I am praying they have day,night, weather and transitions. I was driving on the ring yesterday and it was so intense for the fact of it just turned night when I joined the room. The ring at night is a completely different beast and this is something I would like to experience in FM.
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Agreed. I finally threw in GT5 last night to give it a go after 3 or so months of avoiding it while I was enjoying the hell out of FM4. I jumped in the Audi R8 V8, headed to the Nordschleife at dusk, turned off the hud, and I was just consumed with the driving pleasure I experienced navigating it around the Ring heading into the night. There is nothing else like it, and it is something T10 needs to incorporate and hopefully they do in FM5.
 
jdmking13
:lol: No doubt man as long as we are having fun. When FM5 come out I am praying they have day,night, weather and transitions. I was driving on the ring yesterday and it was so intense for the fact of it just turned night when I joined the room. The ring at night is a completely different beast and this is something I would like to experience in FM.
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If FM5 comes out on the 360 I doubt we'll see those effects unless they can really wrench some performance out of the 360 they otherwise haven't. I think it can be done but not using the usual Dev Kits. They'll have to start tapping the hardware directly and it's not a trivial thing to do.

This weekend I tried the Academy GT5 download but not with the wheel. No slight against it but it just didn't excite me enough to pull out my wheel rig. Even with the controller it felt dead compared to the feedback with the controller in FM4. I will try those wheel settings posted and see how that compares.

The debate about feedback reminds me of rap music. Forza's FFB strength may not be as "strong" as GT5 but there's alot of fidelity in it. Like Eric B. and Rakim versus today's rappers. Rakim might not have the loudness and what not of today's tracks and rappers but he was talking about something and it had meaning, today's stuff is all loud noise. That's how I remember the last time I played GT5 with a wheel versus FM4. But that's been a while so I'll see later today when I try the settings posted.
 
Ah King I remember now. Although I have ABS off in game in Forza it's not something I'll sacrifice on the wheel. My Wheel ABS is on and set to vibrate at the point of lock up.

I would no doubt prefer it in that way on GT5 also. Yes I can agree the immersion would be a nice feature. I have tried it. The wheel ABS function is too handy to turn off IMHO.
 
I came across the engine rumble in GT5 by accident. I thought it was OK, but not great. I have it set to SHO 10 or something low like that. At 100 it's annoying on how much the wheel rumbles just from throttle control.
 
Spagetti69
Ah King I remember now. Although I have ABS off in game in Forza it's not something I'll sacrifice on the wheel. My Wheel ABS is on and set to vibrate at the point of lock up.

I would no doubt prefer it in that way on GT5 also. Yes I can agree the immersion would be a nice feature. I have tried it. The wheel ABS function is too handy to turn off IMHO.
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I feel you It hurt my feelings to turn abs off, but I still can get the feeling of the front tires because I play with abs off. The engine rumble effect really brings GT5 alive for me no more dead feeling while driving. Match it up the butt kicker :drool:. Anybody playing with there spring rate higher than -3 is getting the force feedback feelings washed out by the CSR in my opinion. Also the SEN should be off because GT5 has 900 degree steering. Putting the CSR on 900 makes the wheel feel different compared to off. @ TO well I will take more evenings day for FM5, when it dusk the lighting is beautiful in FM4. If we can get more tracks like that I will be very happy. Do you think we can at least get headlights for FM5 and interior light?

cuco33
I came across the engine rumble in GT5 by accident. I thought it was OK, but not great. I have it set to SHO 10 or something low like that. At 100 it's annoying on how much the wheel rumbles just from throttle control.
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yea that's why I keep mine on 50/60 anything higher than that is annoying, But that's with any setting on the CSR though...
 
jdmking13
@ TO well I will take more evenings day for FM5, when it dusk the lighting is beautiful in FM4. If we can get more tracks like that I will be very happy. Do you think we can at least get headlights for FM5 and interior light
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Yes the evenings in FM4 is a beautiful thing to see. The lighting even brings out the cockpit in the alternate time. Infineon is just eye-candy in the alternate time. I too would like to see more/all tracks have that and have multiple versions of it.

Headlights for FM5 would probably be an issue if they wanted to do it the right way with reflections off other cars and appropriate objects and such. If they just "faked it" and had lights on with no other effects they could get that to work no problem. I don't think they'd want to go that route though. They want to keep the franchise as polished and consistent as possible and there's something to be said for that even if it means sacrificing some eye-candy.

I'm kinda lost on the interior light thing. I don't know what you mean exactly?
 
If T10 does alternate times, or a night shift, I want it on all tracks. I know this feature gets hyped up a ton in GT5 and overall for the tracks it does it on it does it well... it just does it way to little. You only come across it in career like twice, and it's only when you set up your own practice/time trials or go online that you experience it.

Same goes for weather. I'd fully welcome it into FM series but do it across the board on all tracks, OR do it on tracks that actually allow weather to continue the event (like Le Mans but not Laguna Seca). Basically do it everywhere it's supposed to work. It sucks that Spa doesn't have night shift in GT5.
 
I think he means dashboard lights.
Force feedback on Forza should be kept at 100 and dialled back in game to your prefered strength. Think I'm running 65% in game.

Sonac provided a detailed test which highlighted the FF scale on the Fanatec as not being linear. Basically when turning down the strength on the wheel you will lose some effects. Running your wheel at 100 will keep all effects when dialling down FF through in game options.

I would imagine that holds true for GT also. It's how the Fanatec software works with in board programming.
 
t.o.
I would love to see Laguna Seca getting dark in FM4.
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Turn down your contrast lol.

t.o., what was your avatar on GTplanet? I can't remember. I'm wracking my brain trying to think.
 
Spagetti69
I think he means dashboard lights.
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👍

t.o.
I would love to see Laguna Seca getting dark in FM4.
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Ah yes that would be nice, but I would love to have some dashboard lights on. Sometimes I cannot see where I am with my gauges and I would love to see the interior lights on some cars I haven't seen before. 👍
 
HBK
Very true. FFB in GT5 is very immersive and adds a lot to the experience but actually tends to screw up your driving with lots of tossing around in order to make you feel the bumps on the road (played an lot with DFP and now with GT2). Remove or just reduce FFB in GT5 and the result, albeit being a much less fun experience, actually helps having more efficient driving lines. Remove (or even lighten) the FFB in Forza 4 and cars become much much harder to drive due to the lack of feedback.

Of course, there's still the issue of the non-linear steering in Forza 4, but that is another matter. FFB in Forza 4 is significantly improved from Forza 3 (can't speak about Forza 2 as I didn't have an xbox compatible wheel at the time).
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What exactly is this issue? I've heard about it many times but no one has ever gone into detail.
 
Mapping is not strictly linear (most cars have strictly linear mapping due to basic mechanical reasons). When close to the center, moving the wheel results in a slightly higher rotation in-game than it should be if it was strictly linear (same goes when near the bounds, moving the wheel results in a slightly lower rotation than it should, so that a full 450° lock on the steering wheel does a full 450° lock on the front wheels).

To put it in a bit more mathematical fashion, a rotation of 1° on the steering wheel should always result in an orienaton change of 1° on the front wheels. In Forza 3 and 4, when close to the center, a rotation of 1° on the steering wheel results in an orientation change of 1.2° of the front wheels, and when near the bounds, a similar rotation of 1° on the steering wheel results in an orientation change of 0.8° on the front wheels. And it's "smoothed" of course, in-between you have a close to 1:1 mapping. Note : numbers provided are not actual estimates but serve as an example.

It's not *that* big of a deal and doesn't really cause huge driving problems but an option to have a "pure" 1:1 steering would have been welcomed.

On most Fanatecs you can somewhat compensate with the LIN setting, but that is an empirical workaround more than a satisfactory solution (and it tends to weaken FFB around the center, where we need it the most).
 

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