Forza 6 discussion

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What feature should Turn 10 concentrate on the most for Forza 6?


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613
TWNTYB_4ME
F Caris
With Forza 5 almost finished (last DLC should be the July one) and Forza Horizon 2 is out late September 2014, I already started thinking about Forza 6, which will be coming (hopefully, according to Turn 10's normal release schedule) on September/October 2015. So what will Forza 6 bring us? The following can be safely guessed:

- Cars: all cars from Forza 5 (which all had to be re-scanned for next gen), plus all (or almost all) new cars added on Forza Horizon 2. Plus a few new ones that are new to the series. Plus a few that were on the series previously but didn't make the cut to Forza 5 or Horizon 2.

- Tracks: all tracks from Forza 5 (which also all had to be re-scanned for next gen), plus a few new ones that are new to the series. Plus a few that were on the series previously but didn't make the cut to Forza 5.

- Driveatars: not much needs to be changed here, maybe just a bit of tinkering from new knowledge gotten from Forza 5 and Horizon 2.

- Weather: finally! one can safely assume that this will be added to Forza 6 since it has already been implemented on Horizon 2. This will make racing even more diverse on the many circuits and layouts of Forza 5. I for one cannot wait to experience weather online multiplayer races!

- Multiplayer: is there room/place for Turn 10 to implement at least some of the new seemless changeability between single player and online multiplayer modes that Horizon 2 is implementing?

- Other features: not sure what else they can add/change besides maybe the menu system and layout. What if Turn 10 implemented a Windows 8 style menu with the rectangles and squares to an even more extensive level than Forza 5?

To sum up, based on the things mentioned above (and I will change/update these figures once more information is known about Forza 6) we can safely assume it will have:

300+ cars (about 200 Forza 5 launch cars, plus at least 9 DLC car packs with 10 cars each = 90 cars, plus 3 DLC Track Booster Packs with 5 cars each = 15 cars)

17+ tracks (14 Forza 5 launch tracks plus 3 new free DLC tracks)

I personally cannot wait for Forza 6! I've loved Forza 5. So to have basically the same fun game, with more cars, more tracks and weather, well, I'm sold! And thankfully we have Horizon 2 to keep us entertained until Forza 6 comes out!

But, looking at other competing games, is there anything Turn 10 could/needs to add to Forza 6? As long as Turn 10 adds a few more diverse types of circuit racing cars (more European, US, Brazilian, Australian and Japanese style touring/circuit cars at least) and they will have another winning title for sure! And then there's always the infamous Porsche cars as well. Add those alone and this game will sell like hotcakes!
 
869
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Just out of curiosity, but when did T10 ever say that July would be the last monthly DLC for forza 5? July is just when the car pass ends, and then only because T10 extended the pass for 2 extra car packs (May was going to be the last month for the car pass). Since the individual cars take 6 months to make for forza (T10's words), that means the extended car pass was a last minute decision. This COULD mean that there may be no more car packs after July, or it COULD have simply been T10 covering their own asses. By that, I mean the fact that each car pack prior to June's, only had 1 or 2 new to the series cars. Something that was brought up quite a lot on the forza forums, with a lot of people stating this "I bet all the new to the series cars come in June, once the car pass has ended". In June I believe there was 7/8 new to the series cars in one 10 car monthly pack.

As for your question as to what I want in Forza 6, tracks, tracks over new cars, tracks over weather and night/day. I need more tracks to race on, because at this moment in time I am having to use Rfactor, Assetto Corsa, Pcars (I hate this one), F1 2013, Grid 2, WRC4, Dirt 3, and a ton of other racing games; just to give myself some variation in tracks. We need the likes of Suzuka and tsukaba back, we need fantasy tracks such as Fujimi Kaido back; and even Maple Vally.

As for the whole weather thing, I wouldn't get your hopes up at it been in FM6. Horizon 2 is running at a locked 30FPS, which is allowing playground games to do more graphically. T10 have stated time and time again, they will not do anything to have Forza Motorsport running below 60fps. If using weather in FM6 drops the game below 60FPS, T10 will remove it without a second thought.
 
1,955
United States
Ohio
IceManPJN
IceMan PJN
As for the whole weather thing, I wouldn't get your hopes up at it been in FM6. Horizon 2 is running at a locked 30FPS, which is allowing playground games to do more graphically. T10 have stated time and time again, they will not do anything to have Forza Motorsport running below 60fps. If using weather in FM6 drops the game below 60FPS, T10 will remove it without a second thought.

Correct. However...

FM5 likely doesn't represent the maximum that Turn 10 will be able to do with a Forza game on One. If we look at the games on 360, the jump from FM2 to FM3 was massive. By comparison to FM3 and especially FM4, FM2 was almost like it was running on the original Xbox. FM2 was fine for its time, but two years later it appeared last-gen next to FM3. FM3 boasted ten times the polygon count in the car models, to say nothing for other improvements over FM2. FM4 improved further on top of that by increasing the number of cars on-track during singleplayer races by 50% and in multiplayer the number doubled.

If this sort of trend continues with the Forza games on One, what they do with FM6 should be leaps and bounds ahead of FM5; enough so that FM5 would seem like a 360 game by comparison. If they choose to use this extra might for stuff like weather and a dynamic day/night cycle rather than ramping up car model detail or the number of cars in a race, then surely they could get results similar or even better than FM5 with the addition of weather and night and still hold a solid 60 FPS.
 
869
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Correct. However...

FM5 likely doesn't represent the maximum that Turn 10 will be able to do with a Forza game on One. If we look at the games on 360, the jump from FM2 to FM3 was massive. By comparison to FM3 and especially FM4, FM2 was almost like it was running on the original Xbox. FM2 was fine for its time, but two years later it appeared last-gen next to FM3. FM3 boasted ten times the polygon count in the car models, to say nothing for other improvements over FM2. FM4 improved further on top of that by increasing the number of cars on-track during singleplayer races by 50% and in multiplayer the number doubled.

If this sort of trend continues with the Forza games on One, what they do with FM6 should be leaps and bounds ahead of FM5; enough so that FM5 would seem like a 360 game by comparison. If they choose to use this extra might for stuff like weather and a dynamic day/night cycle rather than ramping up car model detail or the number of cars in a race, then surely they could get results similar or even better than FM5 with the addition of weather and night and still hold a solid 60 FPS.

I am not so sure this time around, as they are using x86 pc architecture in both consoles. This may limit what they can ultimately do on the systems, as they have nothing to really learn about hardware/software compared to older system. Its not custom hardware this time, and its not a custom architecture. I am sure they haven't put all their eggs into one basket, but both the PS4 and xbox one are stupidly underpowered compared to the modern gaming PC.
 
198
United States
WY
SlyNine
I am not so sure this time around, as they are using x86 pc architecture in both consoles. This may limit what they can ultimately do on the systems, as they have nothing to really learn about hardware/software compared to older system. Its not custom hardware this time, and its not a custom architecture. I am sure they haven't put all their eggs into one basket, but both the PS4 and xbox one are stupidly underpowered compared to the modern gaming PC.

I would disagree with this. . X86 simply means that it supports x86 instructions; Don't forget these are technically x86-64 . There will be plenty of CPU features to exploit ( even if its AMD and jaguar cores, its still a new architecture with its own learning curve). This API is new and will allow things like better SMP (using multiple cores); but it will take time to figure out. Expanding on the API, the GPU is GCN, which was a first for T10. Optimizing for this GPU/API will take some time. The code driving the game engine will become much more efficient. They will become more efficient at using that engine as well.

Also 5 was rushed. I doubt we've seen all the X1 and T10 has to offer.
 
869
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I would agree with you, if it wasn't for the fact FM5 isn't T10's first adventure with the x86 architecture. The original Xbox was x86 based, and the first forza was made on that architecture. Not to mention that T10 staff will have individual experience with said architecture from before T10 was formed. The API used for the GPU is and always has been direct X based on the xbox platform also, so they already have extensive knowledge on how that API works. Add in the fact that T10 where also part of the xbox ones development process (according to Dan greenawalt), means they have been working with the X1 tech for around 3 years minimum, 4 at most. T10 as a first party dev, should by this point already know everything they need too about the Xbox one system; and how to make games to the best of their ability on the system. I would say if anything, they would have held things back; but that is common practice within game development anyway. Much like showing off stupidly good graphics very early on in a games development cycle, much like what we saw from the E3 demo build of FM5 (or even watchdogs), and the reduced graphical fidelity of the final release game. I am not saying that the graphical side of things will not improve over the new consoles lifespans, because they will. But I am very skeptical, based on the hardware in the X1 (and ps4), that their will be the same leaps made during the xbox 360/ps3 lifespan. Right now we are at the point of diminishing returns, and the main improvements have to come from lighting, shadows, textures, and particle effects. These are the sort of things that on pc, will require at bare minimum a GT750TI (or AMD equivalent), an intel i5 or amd piledriver FX cpu for the most recent of games; which outperforms the GPU and cpu in both the PS4 and Xbox one by a massive margin. They are the sort of things that require more processing power, and no matter how you look at it; the CPU and GPU in both the PS4 and X1 are seriously outclassed. They was outclassed and outdated the moment the specs where announced, and are running on 5 year old tech at this point. They are essentially underpowered pc's running a custom os, with the X1 using DX11 (soon to be dx12), and the PS4 using custom open GL.

I am not slating T10 here, or the xbox one itself (or the PS4 for that matter); you just have to take a look at my youtube channel to see that I play FM5 a fair bit. I have owned every Forza game, including Horizon.

I play games on a console for one reason, and that is the exclusives. If all I cared about was the ultimate and best graphics, I would have used the £500+ I spent in total on the X1 (X1 day one edition console, official play and charge kit, FM5, Ryse son of rome, COD Ghosts, 12 months pre-paid xbox live card), on a GT780 for my pc, an extra 8gb of system ram, and possibly a better cpu. And the further £270 spent on a Thrustmaster TX wheel, would have gone on a T500RS or fanatec wheel instead.

Honestly, I do hope I am off base with what I have put. If we do see the same gains as we saw on the 360/ps3, I will be very happy; I am just not holding my breath.
 

Zer0

(Banned)
1,624
Comparisons between PC specs and console does not matter when you can compare directly the old vs new console specs, and previous results to figure the new. Gaming machines always show better results than PC equivalents in the exclusive titles. The optimizing of the resources in the top internal studios is much advanced than in PC.

Said that, I'm not sure about FM6, this time is not the same scenario as FM2 vs FM3. FM5 is already showing a generational leap between FM4. You only need to compare Nurburgring tracks or interior views. In FM4 the car detail is seen maxed only in time trials with 1 car on track, in FM5 in all cars. The tracks and cars offer new visual effects, the brand-new tracks are much more detailed than the bests in FM4, etc. It's a leap on its own but that would not be enought to survive the pletora of next-gen racing games with plenty of eye candy, new advanced effects, dynamic worlds (night, light, environment effects), advanced weather simulation, complex sound simulations, complex physics, etc.

This time they need something better than more tracks and cars if they want to compete and get up to the standarts of the genre. But they are very conservative and are still doing things with the same old gen mind, they don't like to take risks, don't have the experience of previous attemps, have the weaker system to work on and have to cope with their self impossed compromise of the 1080/60 on a system that suffers too much to handle it with complex graphics.

I expect minor improvements or cheaper implementations compared to other game attemps in the case that they keep with its 1080/60 mentality without downgrading the actual graphics.
 
6,573
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I chose other, I think the biggest room for improvement is the physics engine. Hopefully they completely redo it, it is the main thing that puts me off playing FM5.
I would agree with you, if it wasn't for the fact FM5 isn't T10's first adventure with the x86 architecture. The original Xbox was x86 based, and the first forza was made on that architecture. Not to mention that T10 staff will have individual experience with said architecture from before T10 was formed. The API used for the GPU is and always has been direct X based on the xbox platform also, so they already have extensive knowledge on how that API works. Add in the fact that T10 where also part of the xbox ones development process (according to Dan greenawalt), means they have been working with the X1 tech for around 3 years minimum, 4 at most. T10 as a first party dev, should by this point already know everything they need too about the Xbox one system; and how to make games to the best of their ability on the system. I would say if anything, they would have held things back; but that is common practice within game development anyway. Much like showing off stupidly good graphics very early on in a games development cycle, much like what we saw from the E3 demo build of FM5 (or even watchdogs), and the reduced graphical fidelity of the final release game. I am not saying that the graphical side of things will not improve over the new consoles lifespans, because they will. But I am very skeptical, based on the hardware in the X1 (and ps4), that their will be the same leaps made during the xbox 360/ps3 lifespan. Right now we are at the point of diminishing returns, and the main improvements have to come from lighting, shadows, textures, and particle effects. These are the sort of things that on pc, will require at bare minimum a GT750TI (or AMD equivalent), an intel i5 or amd piledriver FX cpu for the most recent of games; which outperforms the GPU and cpu in both the PS4 and Xbox one by a massive margin. They are the sort of things that require more processing power, and no matter how you look at it; the CPU and GPU in both the PS4 and X1 are seriously outclassed. They was outclassed and outdated the moment the specs where announced, and are running on 5 year old tech at this point. They are essentially underpowered pc's running a custom os, with the X1 using DX11 (soon to be dx12), and the PS4 using custom open GL.

I am not slating T10 here, or the xbox one itself (or the PS4 for that matter); you just have to take a look at my youtube channel to see that I play FM5 a fair bit. I have owned every Forza game, including Horizon.

I play games on a console for one reason, and that is the exclusives. If all I cared about was the ultimate and best graphics, I would have used the £500+ I spent in total on the X1 (X1 day one edition console, official play and charge kit, FM5, Ryse son of rome, COD Ghosts, 12 months pre-paid xbox live card), on a GT780 for my pc, an extra 8gb of system ram, and possibly a better cpu. And the further £270 spent on a Thrustmaster TX wheel, would have gone on a T500RS or fanatec wheel instead.

Honestly, I do hope I am off base with what I have put. If we do see the same gains as we saw on the 360/ps3, I will be very happy; I am just not holding my breath.
I don't understand how GPU you used for comparison beats PS4 by a massive margin considering the PS4 GPU is faster. Also tech is latest AMD had at time, Piledriver is old in comparison and for sure would never made it to console considering the CPU alone would take as much as current full system load does.
 
6,573
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
VXR
Wait, what? The physics are considered to be amongst the best on console by a variety of sources.
I have also seen the opposite too. One thing I find though, people seem to think the harder it is, the more realistic it is.
He also said this about Project CARS a while back:



Methinks he is somewhat biased towards a certain developer and game.
I stand by what I said regarding pCARs graphically and I'm sure they will struggle to beat Turn 10 too as they have much more resources than SMS. pCARS physics wise is a different story though, I think PD will require a big leap from where they currently are at on PS3 to compete on PS4 (Hard to know what level they really are at). Forza 5 needs also a big jump to be as good in my opinion and I hope FM6 can deliver. I don't see myself biased towards a certain developer and game, I play lots of different racing games and like quite a number of them. rFactor is probably the game I played most this year for example as it plays great with a keyboard and has realistic physics behaviour.
 
20,640
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
You're seriously still saying pCARS graphically isn't as good as 2007 Gran Turismo? Maybe you should go to the pCARS forum and give some examples of this.

As for Forza 5 physics, wasn't your only experience using the McLaren P1 with all aids turned off, something the real car doesn't do?
 
6,573
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
You're seriously still saying pCARS graphically isn't as good as 2007 Gran Turismo? Maybe you should go to the pCARS forum and give some examples of this.

As for Forza 5 physics, wasn't your only experience using the McLaren P1 with all aids turned off, something the real car doesn't do?
Work that goes into assets, I don't think SMS got the budget to do stuff like this for example: Link


That was my first experience, I have the game though for a while now although only played it for a few hours since I got it, probably less than 7 hours. Did most of my laps with E21 on Silverstone International and also full circuit, I found it quite interesting that I could use handbrake button to make it turn better and did my fastest laps using it. I was a bit surprised I could compete with some of the top pad players in the game without having played game for long and not being that good with a pad, shame no one does wheel for both Xbox One or PS4 (Especially annoying considering the wheels Thrustmaster has released). Otherwise it would have been interesting to see if I could top one of the leaderboards with one and might have made me play it a bit more too just for competition element.
 
20,640
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
What has that got to do with the final graphical output? They build many cars using CAD data and they're far more detailed than anything we've seen from PD so far and certainly not 2007.
 
6,573
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
What has that got to do with the final graphical output? They build many cars using CAD data and they're far more detailed than anything we've seen from PD so far and certainly not 2007.
Polygon wise, how are they? I doubt they can reach as high as PD or T10. Driveclub is more realistic competition graphically as far as assets go I imagine as they are in similar kind of position. Probably best if you post in pCARS thread if you have proof to show they are far more detailed than anything we've seen from PD. I just don't see how it can be possible, they spend a lot less time modelling car for example, have less access to cars and resources to capture I assume, have most likely a lot less polygons and still somehow be better than PD's models. Doesn't make much sense to me. Only way I can see competing is if first pCARS is huge success which will allow them to up the detail in all departments for future games.
 

McLaren

Premium
41,263
United States
Texas
Partyboy78
Said that, I'm not sure about FM6, this time is not the same scenario as FM2 vs FM3. FM5 is already showing a generational leap between FM4. You only need to compare Nurburgring tracks or interior views. In FM4 the car detail is seen maxed only in time trials with 1 car on track, in FM5 in all cars. The tracks and cars offer new visual effects, the brand-new tracks are much more detailed than the bests in FM4, etc. It's a leap on its own but that would not be enought to survive the pletora of next-gen racing games with plenty of eye candy, new advanced effects, dynamic worlds (night, light, environment effects), advanced weather simulation, complex sound simulations, complex physics, etc.
Last I checked, they've been hitting most of those areas just fine. The dynamic world & weather simulation is something they're starting with on Horizon 2, so it's likely to find its way to FM6 later on.
This time they need something better than more tracks and cars if they want to compete and get up to the standarts of the genre. But they are very conservative and are still doing things with the same old gen mind, they don't like to take risks, don't have the experience of previous attemps, have the weaker system to work on and have to cope with their self impossed compromise of the 1080/60 on a system that suffers too much to handle it with complex graphics.
After watching the backlash against them during FM5's launch, it's pretty obvious they took a big risk and it backfired in their face. I'd say the implementing of weather and day-night cycles in the Horizon games is also finally taking a risk.

The company you're describing sounds more like Polyphony. The formula hasn't changed since GT4 & it's clear GT6 resulted more in GT5.5.
 

Zer0

(Banned)
1,624
Last I checked, they've been hitting most of those areas just fine. The dynamic world & weather simulation is something they're starting with on Horizon 2, so it's likely to find its way to FM6 later on.

After watching the backlash against them during FM5's launch, it's pretty obvious they took a big risk and it backfired in their face. I'd say the implementing of weather and day-night cycles in the Horizon games is also finally taking a risk.

The company you're describing sounds more like Polyphony. The formula hasn't changed since GT4 & it's clear GT6 resulted more in GT5.5.
Horizon is one game and Motorsport is another. Different developers and different targets (60 vs 30 fps, open world vs closed, etc). Forza Horizon 1 having day night cycles in X360 had not meant FM5 having them, even being in a more capable hardware and having more development time.

The problem with a suposed FM6 with all the features of FH2 would be in retaining the same fidelity of the backed world of FM5 (much ease to render, less demanding and with no real-time artifacts) at the original 1080/60 maxed graphics and without any visual downgrade. FH2 seems that will look not as good as FM5 and it runs at 30 fps.

About the eye candy, FM5 looks ok but not stellar, better in photomode. In-game looks nothing to write about and other games are developing amazing technologies in that regard (see Driveclub). If T10 try to put too much into FM6 and the hardware, or they, are not up to the task, the FM6 graphics will become worst than FM5 and that is not what the game needs with the next heavyweights contenders pushing the envelope more and more.

As I said, they have a very difficult task adapting the old-mind coded FM5 to what is expected in a next-gen racer, and without showing any weakness.

I was speaking about graphical effects and features, not formulas between games. T10 has become very stagnant in that regard and would need to force a jump as soon as posible or will become outdated.
 
2,245
New Zealand
dunedin NZ
Godzilla_GTR
Godzilla_GTR
i just want more upgrades. im sick of making the same cars with the same kits and same wheels as i was in forza 2. its crap. and need the tuner cars back, like the mines gtr's, top secret supra, re rx7 etc. and more cars capable of 1000hp. like r26b shoulda had turbo option.
 
1,942
United States
Sugar Land, TX
whitemanLS1
I voted more tracks, If FM6 only added COTA and Monza I'd be the happiest person here.

I'd also like to have the Forza Le Mans lobby back, spent all my time in fm4 there.
 
613
TWNTYB_4ME
F Caris
Just out of curiosity, but when did T10 ever say that July would be the last monthly DLC for forza 5? July is just when the car pass ends, and then only because T10 extended the pass for 2 extra car packs (May was going to be the last month for the car pass). Since the individual cars take 6 months to make for forza (T10's words), that means the extended car pass was a last minute decision. This COULD mean that there may be no more car packs after July, or it COULD have simply been T10 covering their own asses. By that, I mean the fact that each car pack prior to June's, only had 1 or 2 new to the series cars. Something that was brought up quite a lot on the forza forums, with a lot of people stating this "I bet all the new to the series cars come in June, once the car pass has ended". In June I believe there was 7/8 new to the series cars in one 10 car monthly pack.

As for your question as to what I want in Forza 6, tracks, tracks over new cars, tracks over weather and night/day. I need more tracks to race on, because at this moment in time I am having to use Rfactor, Assetto Corsa, Pcars (I hate this one), F1 2013, Grid 2, WRC4, Dirt 3, and a ton of other racing games; just to give myself some variation in tracks. We need the likes of Suzuka and tsukaba back, we need fantasy tracks such as Fujimi Kaido back; and even Maple Vally.

As for the whole weather thing, I wouldn't get your hopes up at it been in FM6. Horizon 2 is running at a locked 30FPS, which is allowing playground games to do more graphically. T10 have stated time and time again, they will not do anything to have Forza Motorsport running below 60fps. If using weather in FM6 drops the game below 60FPS, T10 will remove it without a second thought.

As I said on the first post, I said "plus at least 9 DLC car packs", meaning we can count on at least 9 DLC packs. This does not in any way mean I said the July pack is the last. But don't expect many more since as we get closer to the Horizon 2 release, we can expect less DLC to come on Forza 5, even if both games are different and made by different people. It's just how it's been in the past. We can usually expect around 12 months of DLC (give or take) and this means only another 4 or so DLC packs for Forza 5 including the July one. But, once again, this is just a guess!
 

SlipZtrEm

GTP Admin
Staff Emeritus
27,384
Canada
Toronto
NewAesthetic
SlipZtrEm
I don't see myself biased towards a certain developer and game

Completely unrelated thought: crazy people don't think they're crazy.

;)

About the eye candy, FM5 looks ok but not stellar, better in photomode. In-game looks nothing to write about

...because so many games in the genre out now look just as good, if not better.

If T10 try to put too much into FM6 and the hardware, or they, are not up to the task, the FM6 graphics will become worst than FM5 and that is not what the game needs with the next heavyweights contenders pushing the envelope more and more.

You mean, if they take PD's approach to GT6? I agree.

I've yet to see any truly advanced weather in any racing game, though. Maybe DC's, or FH2's, will bring something truly different to the fold, but even GT6's, as good as the atmospherics can look, is simplistic in how it affects the physics.
 
1,785
United States
San Bernardino, California
Gerarghini
Gerarghini
This post will probably sound like a wishlist, mainly because it is ;).

NASCAR:
I find it odd that T10 hasn't properly included NASCAR yet sans the Stock Cars of the Forza 3 and 4 times, even though the license for NASCAR is easy for any dev to grab really after the license layoff by EA. However both Gran Turismo 5 and ETX do a rather poor job of representing NASCAR although Gran Turismo 6 had a lot better NASCAR implementation (better than 5 but far from perfect).

And it's not like T10 haven't been eyeing NASCAR. There's a special DLC featuring a Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 with the XBOX ONE every 2 minutes paint scheme that Dale Jr. has run with at places like Talladega. The paint scheme is almost identical except for the omission of the NASCAR logos, but it retains NASCAR contingencies and the Hendrick Motorsport logo. Just add Daytona to finish it off. NASCAR isn't the only series that uses the track, so the track'll find use for other racing series as well.

I also would like WRC since dirt racing needs to happen sooner rather than later. I mean T10 literally have cars with rally upgrades available to them.

New Tracks I want:
Monaco - For the F1 cars. It's what defines F1 like how Bathurst defines V8s and Indianapolis defines Indy cars.

Daytona - Primarily NASCAR but can also work with GT racing.

Suzuka - It's a solid Japanese track and we need more Japanese tracks.

New York - A beautiful classic track. There's a LOT of potential here for multiple layouts.
 
198
United States
WY
SlyNine
I would agree with you, if it wasn't for the fact FM5 isn't T10's first adventure with the x86 architecture. The original Xbox was x86 based, and the first forza was made on that architecture. Not to mention that T10 staff will have individual experience with said architecture from before T10 was formed. The API used for the GPU is and always has been direct X based on the xbox platform also, so they already have extensive knowledge on how that API works. Add in the fact that T10 where also part of the xbox ones development process (according to Dan greenawalt), means they have been working with the X1 tech for around 3 years minimum, 4 at most. T10 as a first party dev, should by this point already know everything they need too about the Xbox one system; and how to make games to the best of their ability on the system. I would say if anything, they would have held things back; but that is common practice within game development anyway. Much like showing off stupidly good graphics very early on in a games development cycle, much like what we saw from the E3 demo build of FM5 (or even watchdogs), and the reduced graphical fidelity of the final release game. I am not saying that the graphical side of things will not improve over the new consoles lifespans, because they will. But I am very skeptical, based on the hardware in the X1 (and ps4), that their will be the same leaps made during the xbox 360/ps3 lifespan. Right now we are at the point of diminishing returns, and the main improvements have to come from lighting, shadows, textures, and particle effects. These are the sort of things that on pc, will require at bare minimum a GT750TI (or AMD equivalent), an intel i5 or amd piledriver FX cpu for the most recent of games; which outperforms the GPU and cpu in both the PS4 and Xbox one by a massive margin. They are the sort of things that require more processing power, and no matter how you look at it; the CPU and GPU in both the PS4 and X1 are seriously outclassed. They was outclassed and outdated the moment the specs where announced, and are running on 5 year old tech at this point. They are essentially underpowered pc's running a custom os, with the X1 using DX11 (soon to be dx12), and the PS4 using custom open GL.

I am not slating T10 here, or the xbox one itself (or the PS4 for that matter); you just have to take a look at my youtube channel to see that I play FM5 a fair bit. I have owned every Forza game, including Horizon.

I play games on a console for one reason, and that is the exclusives. If all I cared about was the ultimate and best graphics, I would have used the £500+ I spent in total on the X1 (X1 day one edition console, official play and charge kit, FM5, Ryse son of rome, COD Ghosts, 12 months pre-paid xbox live card), on a GT780 for my pc, an extra 8gb of system ram, and possibly a better cpu. And the further £270 spent on a Thrustmaster TX wheel, would have gone on a T500RS or fanatec wheel instead.

Honestly, I do hope I am off base with what I have put. If we do see the same gains as we saw on the 360/ps3, I will be very happy; I am just not holding my breath.

X86-64 is an instruction set not an architecture and tells you very little about the CPU architecture other then its a X86 based architecture. X86 is but a very small part of the CPU.

The API is probably not very close to DX as you know it. It allows very close to the metal programing of the GCN GPU. This GPU is completely new to T10 and where most of the graphics come from. Close to the metal programing will take more time to figure out and will be where a lot of the performance enhancements come. Another thing this API will do is allow more efficient use of SMT/SMP.

We will just have to wait and see what all that means for games.
 

Zer0

(Banned)
1,624
...because so many games in the genre out now look just as good, if not better.
Some games differ more than others and FM5 is one that shows the most, if not the most, differences between modes. Forzavista looking like a different game.

You mean, if they take PD's approach to GT6? I agree.

I've yet to see any truly advanced weather in any racing game, though. Maybe DC's, or FH2's, will bring something truly different to the fold, but even GT6's, as good as the atmospherics can look, is simplistic in how it affects the physics.
No. GT6 was competing with FM4, and its graphics as a whole with all the features were still more impressive in-game than in FM4 or anything in the previous generation. FM6 is going to compete with all the new generation racers running on a much more advanced hardware. They can't take the luxury of lowering even more its actual level or the differences will become too much evident to be ignored.

FH2 weather approach is still very old-school and simplistic, nothing new or advanced and in some details is worst than GT5.

At 2:27:

This is an example of what Driveclub is doing:

Over in Norway, dawn breaks over powdered mountains, sending a dreamy purplish blue out across the environment. The heat from the sun dynamically melts the snow, with northern-facing surfaces reacting first. As that sun sets and a storm rolls in, road-signs are reflected in the slicked tarmac, while headlights catch individual rain droplets. The attention to detail is underlined when Evolution pauses the action and sweeps through the static action, ascending up through the clouds - DriveClub's game world is rendered all the way to the heavens, some two kilometres up.

There are more and more incredible details:
http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2014/06...bs-weather-and-how-the-delay-benefits-us-all/

The first that is going to be noticed by everybody is how good is the graphical implementation and the dynamics of the features. If are not up to par with other games people will going to notice even in a simple YT video or static image (photomode could be used here to fool some people). If they don't nail the graphics, a supossed good weather physics is not going to save the game from the critics. Also a realistic atmosphere is as important as a realistic sound to enhace the experience.
 
Some games differ more than others and FM5 is one that shows the most, if not the most, differences between modes. Forzavista looking like a different game.

You must not have played Forza Motorsport 5 because the main difference between ForzaVista and in-game is AA.

Over in Norway, dawn breaks over powdered mountains, sending a dreamy purplish blue out across the environment. The heat from the sun dynamically melts the snow

The heat from the sun in Forza Horizon 2 will dynamically dry the road surfaces.

, with northern-facing surfaces reacting first. As that sun sets and a storm rolls in, road-signs are reflected in the slicked tarmac, while headlights catch individual rain droplets.

Same in Forza Horizon 2, we have yet to see rain at night in Horizon 2 so we don't know about the headlight thing.

The attention to detail is underlined when Evolution pauses the action and sweeps through the static action, ascending up through the clouds - DriveClub's game world is rendered all the way to the heavens, some two kilometres up.

So is Forza Horizon 2's weather system.