Forza Horizon 4 Dev Interview: Recreating UK Weather & The "Arcade/Sim" Spectrum

Silver Arrows

(Banned)
4,715
Canada
Brandon, MB
Silver-Arrows21
Really, looking at it from the perspective of being on this site for as long as I have, those comments about the handling physics being fun as a main focus really do help put into focus why Horizon has cast a wide net and gotten so much of the racing genre, and those who don't play. I don't need to spend 20 minutes setting up a wheel and getting controller settings locked down, and I generally know what I'm going to expect, something that is fun and relatively easy to grasp upon and understand, but does have some differences between vehicles.

Some people on this site have had their minds so warped with regards to playing sim racing games, that they forget that ultimately, people who don't play sim racing games, or really racing games, as much as we do need to be taken into account as well. I don't want, nor have the desire to go through the same process of setting up pad handling settings for Horizon 4 like I did PCARS 2.
 
9,245
United States
Seattle WA
I liked the bit where they said they're not worrying about whether it's a sim or arcade racer. That is absolutely the right attitude. I don't worry about that when I'm playing. I'm only concerned if I'm enjoying myself, and when it comes to Horizon, I always am. This game really exists outside that spectrum. It is an entity unto itself. "Is it a sim or an arcade racer?" "Neither and both. It is Horizon."
 
1,291
United Kingdom
Bristol
MrCrynox
I don't want, nor have the desire to go through the same process of setting up pad handling settings for Horizon 4 like I did PCARS 2.

Absolutely. Sadly this put me off buying PC2. I played the demo using a controller and despite them making out they had learned from their previous mistakes and made it work, what a load of crap, I simply could not believe how vague & awful it was. Sure I could manage, I could win the races, but why on earth would I want to struggle so much just to play when so many other games work perfectly !?! Not interested. Such a shame as I really liked the track list.
 
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10,607
Canada
Canada
I wish every developer were like PG. Just look outside the box and focus on be fun. I hope this inspires T10 with the Motorsport franchise, because I did notice that it's leaning somewhat towards Horizon, and that's okay. It's just people who want everything to be hardcore will judge them if they change, but I say ahead. Forza should just be Forza (i.e. fun).

I'm glad Ralph isn's worried about the "is it arcade, or sim?" folk. I love Horizon just the way it is. That is why, IMO, it is better than most racing games nowadays, cause everyone are just doing the same thing: racing racing and more racing... Spice some things already, because Horizon 4 already started.

And I agree about PC2. Although I said it felt better physics wise, it still missed out on the controller, which is a shame. It's why I stopped playing it for a long time.
 
2,230
Brazil
Brazil
Really, looking at it from the perspective of being on this site for as long as I have, those comments about the handling physics being fun as a main focus really do help put into focus why Horizon has cast a wide net and gotten so much of the racing genre, and those who don't play. I don't need to spend 20 minutes setting up a wheel and getting controller settings locked down, and I generally know what I'm going to expect, something that is fun and relatively easy to grasp upon and understand, but does have some differences between vehicles.

Some people on this site have had their minds so warped with regards to playing sim racing games, that they forget that ultimately, people who don't play sim racing games, or really racing games, as much as we do need to be taken into account as well. I don't want, nor have the desire to go through the same process of setting up pad handling settings for Horizon 4 like I did PCARS 2.

Well that seems to be much more of a PCARS problem,Forza Motorsport and GT Sport doesn't have that problem.

Horizon definetly captured what most people want in modern games,the car and the road with no walls,back in the 2000s most people only wanted the racing game with the best graphics,the era of GT,colin mcrae rally,Test Drive,Need for Speed,Flatout,Burnout,Demolition Derby and Driver and now that we are in the age of openworlds Horizon is the perfect racing game i just don't know why other studios fall in their faces so much trying to make open world car games(looking at you Need For Speed Payback)
 

-Fred-

This is a custom title
Staff Emeritus
24,252
Canada
Somewhere.
Well that seems to be much more of a PCARS problem

To be honest, what isn't a problem with PCARS? :P

It doesn't matter if it's an arcade game or a full on "simulator" , in the end it's a game, and games are meant to be fun. Full on simulators are a niche product, and aside the internet gaming communities, no "casual" is going to play AC for more than a few hours before coming to the realisation that it's not very fun. And that's why these games have poor sales and generally no mainstream following, they're very good sims, but they're not very good games. The Horizon series has always been fun. There's absolutely no surprise factor left with FH4, we've literally seen everything it has to offer for the time being, and yet pretty much everyone here (and elsewhere) is eager to get their hands on it, because we damn well know we're going to have a blast no matter what. PG figured it out, and I have a feeling the whole studio was having a laugh as they created the game, and it shows.

The only question remaining is when and how they'll jump the proverbial shark at the end of their wave.
 
2,230
Brazil
Brazil
The only question remaining is when and how they'll jump the proverbial shark at the end of their wave.

A showcase event where you jump a Shark with a Ferrari

I feel kinda sad that simracing isn't that popular anymore(kinda hit it's peak back with the first GT games),it doesn't help that there is so much elitism in the simracing community regarding what's a sim and what's not, calling Forza or GT a Sim is a crime against humanity for some people and it's funny that most gamers out there think GT is so difficult and realistic to play that they get bored in 5 minutes.It's quite funny to see 2 groups having such different opinions.

I am curious to see what's next for open world racing games i would like for publishers to see what Horizon is doing and try to do something,Ubisoft is letting the Driver IP sleep for too long time to bring back that franchise.
 

Silver Arrows

(Banned)
4,715
Canada
Brandon, MB
Silver-Arrows21
The only question remaining is when and how they'll jump the proverbial shark at the end of their wave.

How far the Horizon series goes really depends on how willing PG is willing to push the power of the next Xbox system, if there is one. Because The Crew 2, for all the faults that it has, has shown that you can shoot for the moon with a (granted, squished up and Frankenstien-esqe) America, but you can offer so many ways to explore and use it. I am absolutely certain that with the next generation of hardware, PG will be able to offer a full size country to drive on as well, alongside other vehicles, and still offer the same sort of fun that the previous Horizon games are known for.

One thing is for sure though: when Eden Games were probably prototyping and creating ideas for the original TDU back in 2006 or whenever, I'm sure that what PG has achieved with Horizon 4 is very much what they thought of as the end goal for TDU. Little by little PG has managed to create the game in which TDU wanted to be, but simply couldn't in a 2006 that didn't have the tech or the know-how to do it. And now comes the fun part: where do we go from here?
 
880
Zimbabwe
Zimbabwe
A case can be made that a game, like PCars, can have too many options for too many things. Forget the cars themselves, just the dozens and dozens of camera settings were enough to give me a headache.

Forza excels in delivering its intended experience without having to fiddle with every little thing (provided you're playing with a controller).
 
93
United States
United States
I liked the bit where they said they're not worrying about whether it's a sim or arcade racer. That is absolutely the right attitude. I don't worry about that when I'm playing. I'm only concerned if I'm enjoying myself, and when it comes to Horizon, I always am. This game really exists outside that spectrum. It is an entity unto itself. "Is it a sim or an arcade racer?" "Neither and both. It is Horizon."

Great Mindset and I think other racing game developers like Ghost should have that mindset.
 

Wolfe

Physics Critic
Premium
13,504
United States
Wisconsin
Wolfe2x7
Well, I came here to share my appreciation for the amount of detail and work that appears to have gone into this iteration to make it more authentic and dynamic (kudos to them specifically for recognizing how offroading deserved some attention). But then I found the topic of discussion is at odds with the subject of my appreciation. :)

So regarding all the above about realism and fun...just like how it isn't always so simple as falling somewhere on an arcade-simulator spectrum, it also isn't so simple as "less realism = more fun" and "more realism = less fun". I'd say racing games tend to fall along a curve, where totally "old school" arcade racers and the most realistic sims both tend to be more fun than games that try for the "simcade" blend, or sims that shoot for realism and fall short in one aspect or another.

Playing with physics is fun, and a sim inherently offers more gameplay depth than the best arcade racers. Carving around in Mario Kart 8 with a 200cc kart/bike is a thrill, but there's nothing like steering with the throttle, drifting, diving over a crest, popping the inside wheels over a curb, or tucking in for a perfect clean pass in a well-executed sim like Enthusia.

Overall I agree with the gist of what you guys are saying -- it parallels my thoughts on other genres and why I'm a Nintendo fan -- but I don't think it's fair to pretend Horizon is bucking a trend. It is the only game of its kind that is anywhere near as realistic as it is. AC and PCARS2 are not open world driving games. It's honestly depressing to read this consensus, because it implies no one wants an open world driving sim any more realistic than Horizon, even in this community...I knew it was a tough sell, but I didn't think it was that tough.

Anyone ever think how much fun Horizon would be if it was a proper sim tho?.......... Say Horizon with AC physics?
Someone else!! :cheers:
 
1,060
United States
Virginia
StigMurcielagoR
StigMurcielagoZ
Yeah, PG can believe whatever they want to believe but that won't change what the game actually categorized as. I could make a horror movie but insist that it's a dark comedy. It's still going to be called a horror movie.
 

Silver Arrows

(Banned)
4,715
Canada
Brandon, MB
Silver-Arrows21
Overall I agree with the gist of what you guys are saying -- it parallels my thoughts on other genres and why I'm a Nintendo fan -- but I don't think it's fair to pretend Horizon is bucking a trend. It is the only game of its kind that is anywhere near as realistic as it is. AC and PCARS2 are not open world driving games. It's honestly depressing to read this consensus, because it implies no one wants an open world driving sim any more realistic than Horizon, even in this community...I knew it was a tough sell, but I didn't think it was that tough.

The problem with this is that you're cutting out a large chunk of people that would be interested in the scope and style of a Horizon game if it had the physics and the daunting wall of entry that comes with having sim based controls, and having to shell out so much money for peripherals.

The problem isn't the fact that we wouldn't be interested in a more sim-like Horizon experience. The problem is that it would only be played by a fraction of the people that are currently playing Horizon, and ultimately, that is one of the keys to Horizon's success.
 
236
United States
United States
HarlemG27
Youngbumpy
It's true somehow they have perfected the art of sim-cade. Fh has walked a thin line between sim and arcade since the beginning. It literally depends if your using a wheel or not.

I was cruising with some guys last night in fh3 and I went off the road a few times. They were laughing. Thing is we were "cruising" at 180mph through the rain forest in m5s. And that was with me trying to keep up.

The wheel settings get more advanced with each new title. Pc2 is my go to racer, and I was actually able to get the settings close in fh3.

So as long as everyone is happy, who can complain
 
2,230
Brazil
Brazil
Yeah, PG can believe whatever they want to believe but that won't change what the game actually categorized as. I could make a horror movie but insist that it's a dark comedy. It's still going to be called a horror movie.

Not the best comparison,it could be a dark comedy with horror elements or a horror movie with comedy elements.
 
1,060
United States
Virginia
StigMurcielagoR
StigMurcielagoZ
Not the best comparison,it could be a dark comedy with horror elements or a horror movie with comedy elements.
But that's not what I'm saying. I'm making a definitive horror movie in my analogy. End of. Besides, there is humor and even a bit of adventure in Jaws but no one will deny it's horror status regardless of that.
 
1,727
Mexico
Mexico
Anyone ever think how much fun Horizon would be if it was a proper sim tho?.......... Say Horizon with AC physics?

No...

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