Forza Horizon 5: General Discussion

[Edax 76]

IDK, try to start new account and complete few weekly playlists without wheelspins?

I started the game when it was released originally. I'm a regular player, logging in at least 3 to 4 times a week real life allowing. I own 900 individual cars, have 100's of wheel spins and 100's of super wheel spins banked and 999,999,999 credits.

I've always completed a playlist to the best of my ability as well. Granted when you start the game new you won't be able to fully complete a playlist. If you could then where would the enjoyment or challenge of collecting the cars come from?

As I've said in a previous post the paid for car vouchers are MS catering for a specific market share in my opinion. They are not pushed on players in any way shape or form apart from minimal advertising, which you would expect for any product.

Wheel spins being described as something that reminds an individual as something like a gacha scam is just humorous I'm afraid. Gacha scams require players to be parted with their own hard earned real life money. Wheel spins are a bonus by product of the player progressing through the game. Yes the spins reward you with cash, cars and clothing but you do not have to grind for these at all.

I get my endorphin release from the act of playing video games themselves. Does this make video games themselves a gacha scam? I ask as I have spent money on a console and the games to acquire my endorphin release.

I'm sorry to have gone on a long rant but I felt I needed to put my point across on this issue. I'm sorry @inCloud but I strongly disagree with you on this.

 

[Nacho Libre]

I started the game when it was released originally. I'm a regular player, logging in at least 3 to 4 times a week real life allowing. I own 900 individual cars, have 100's of wheel spins and 100's of super wheel spins banked and 999,999,999 credits.

I've always completed a playlist to the best of my ability as well. Granted when you start the game new you won't be able to fully complete a playlist. If you could then where would the enjoyment or challenge of collecting the cars come from?

As I've said in a previous post the paid for car vouchers are MS catering for a specific market share in my opinion. They are not pushed on players in any way shape or form apart from minimal advertising, which you would expect for any product.

Wheel spins being described as something that reminds an individual as something like a gacha scam is just humorous I'm afraid. Gacha scams require players to be parted with their own hard earned real life money. Wheel spins are a bonus by product of the player progressing through the game. Yes the spins reward you with cash, cars and clothing but you do not have to grind for these at all.

I get my endorphin release from the act of playing video games themselves. Does this make video games themselves a gacha scam? I ask as I have spent money on a console and the games to acquire my endorphin release.

I'm sorry to have gone on a long rant but I felt I needed to put my point across on this issue. I'm sorry @inCloud but I strongly disagree with you on this.

I will not comment further on the subject of wheelspins, but it got me thinking. If FH6 is indeed in Japan, are we going to switch to pachinko machines? Or those cute toy dispensers? Will the Yakuza be behind all of it?

 

[UKMikey]

I will not comment further on the subject of wheelspins, but it got me thinking. If FH6 is indeed in Japan, are we going to switch to pachinko machines? Or those cute toy dispensers? Will the Yakuza be behind all of it?

It's gonna be a collaboration with Konami.

 

[UKMikey]

The wheelspins hardly mean much anymore since they nerfed them. You spend just as much time getting clothes, common cars, & insignificant payouts compared to the days where if you weren't getting a car, you were pretty well destined to get a 6-figure reward instead.

Not necessarily if you follow the tip in the posts preceding yours. I still get a number of six figure payouts and can sell cars I already have for in-game cash.

 

[pez2k]

You need to follow whole discussion to understand that.

We started with false take that Horizon doesn't have microtransactions, then that Horizon doesn't have gatcha mechanics and then how they tied to mtx.

My point was that, while Horizon 5 isn't designed around mtx, it designed around gatcha mechanics which are dangerous by itself as they trick with you biochemistry. And there are two ways to get around it - grind or buy vouchers.

I think calling randomised prizes a gacha mechanic is a big stretch to be honest, the biggest point of gacha mechanics is that they're intended to get the player to spend in-game or real-world currency on more attempts to win a prize, and I don't think FH5 does that at all. Wheelspins are so frequent that I've never felt short of them, and I'm not sure if it's even possible to buy them with credits any more (I think it was in FH3 or 4?). With no currency being spent on them, the risk / reward factor of gambling is not present, and thus (at least in my opinion) the gambling addiction factor that gacha design relies on is not present either.

I don't think random prizes are great game design, and I don't like that the fastest car in the game is stuck behind a lucky spin or auction house find, but they seem to be implemented in a way that avoids problematic and exploitative hooks as much as possible. The only thing that is an issue to me is the slot machine style presentation, but I think it would be hard to find a universally understood design language to replace it.

 

[inCloud]

I think calling randomised prizes a gacha mechanic is a big stretch to be honest, the biggest point of gacha mechanics is that they're intended to get the player to spend in-game or real-world currency on more attempts to win a prize, and I don't think FH5 does that at all.

A gacha game (Japanese: ガチャ ゲーム, Hepburn: gacha gēmu) is a game, typically a video game, that implements the gachapon machine style mechanics. Similar to loot boxes, live service gacha games entice players to spend in-game currency to receive a random in-game item. Some in-game currency generally can be gained through game play and staying up-to-date, and some by purchasing it from the game publisher using real-world funds.

With no currency being spent on them, the risk / reward factor of gambling is not present, and thus (at least in my opinion) the gambling addiction factor that gacha design relies on is not present either.

Wheelspins are currency by itself. Even if you think they aren't, you can buy them with forzathon points.

Point isn't in fact you can gamble your money, but simple fact of gambling. Its addictive in wrong way.

 

[Edax 76]

Wheelspins are currency by itself. Even if you think they aren't, you can buy them with forzathon points.

Point isn't in fact you can gamble your money, but simple fact of gambling. Its addictive in wrong way.

Sorry bud but wheel spins aren't currency. You cannot spend a wheel spin to buy anything in game.

If you buy wheel spins with Forza Points then the wheel spin becomes a product that has been bought.

Wheel spins are rewards given out for game play. Wheel spins give you currency as well as other rewards, but are not currency themselves.

The description you give states that 'gacha games entice players to spend in game currency to receive a random in game item'. Wheel spins aren't currency so by your own definition you've shot down your own argument I'm afraid.

Its not gambling either from my point of view. It's a lottery in which each entry is given away free to the participants for their gameplay endeavours.

The base of your argument as I see it is all rewards which are randomised in video games should be done away with. Would this not remove a lot of fun from games?

 

[McLaren]

Not necessarily if you follow the tip in the posts preceding yours. I still get a number of six figure payouts and can sell cars I already have for in-game cash.

I know as the Trueno made me millions of credits on the Auction House and it's something you can only get from the Wheelspin, iirc.

However, since PG introduced a bunch of much lower payouts, the ability to make a lot of credits has taken a noticeable draw back per their intention thanks to people abusing the system.


This whole argument presented by Cloud about wheelspins though, is incredibly silly and pedantic. Wheelspins cost Forzathon Points, but according to the Wiki, they cost 40FP and you can attribute 10 per day/100 per week through challenges. No one's wasting 4 days worth of challenges for a Wheelspin the game will hand you on its own multiple times a day. I fail to see any actual "gambling" from the Wheelspin since you are being rewarded for nothing (Leveling Up), or spending 40FP which is the result of you spending nothing but time for the challenges. You can not actually convert any money, real or in-game credits, to buy Wheelspins.

 

[inCloud]

Its not gambling either from my point of view. It's a lottery in which each entry is given away free to the participants for their gameplay endeavours.

Lottery isn't gambling?

The base of your argument as I see it is all rewards which are randomised in video games should be done away with. Would this not remove a lot of fun from games?

I can't see anything fun about random rewards. Randomisation in general is ok, but in rewards department

 

[BWX]

Just when I got in to play on PS5 Pro.

 

[Edax 76]

Lottery isn't gambling?

I can't see anything fun about random rewards. Randomisation in general is ok, but in rewards department

No mate it's not. Under UK law British citizens can play the UK and Euro Millions lotteries from the age of 16 as they are not classed as gambling. To gamble in the UK you must be 18 years old.

So no, in the UK it's not gambling. I unfortunately due to a lack of knowledge cannot speak for the rest of the world.

 

[pez2k]

Wheelspins are currency by itself. Even if you think they aren't, you can buy them with forzathon points.

Point isn't in fact you can gamble your money, but simple fact of gambling. Its addictive in wrong way.

I just don't agree that, from your quote, FH5 'entice(s) players to spend in-game currency' on wheelspins. As far as I recall, there isn't a single prompt in the game even informing the player that they can buy wheelspins, other than the actual on-screen button to do it in one of the seasonal menus. The same article you've quoted also mentions tactics like limited 'stamina' forcing the player to pay to keep playing, and specific rewards being essential to progress. None of that is in FH5 - the game can be played non-stop, and the events scale themselves to whichever car the player has.

I also think it's a big stretch to call wheelspins themselves currency, at that point you can argue that Gran Turismo 5 was a gacha game because you could earn random prize tickets in that too. They have no value or purpose other than 'this is the number of prizes queued up to claim', and so I think it's a hard argument to make that players are gambling with them for a prize.

To me, it's important not to dilute the meaning of a gacha game - they are deliberately addictive and predatory, and I don't think that FH5 comes anywhere near that bar when it comes to wheelspins. Quite frankly, the seasonal content with one-time prizes playing on the fear of missing out is much more predatory than anything to do with wheelspins, and if you want to criticise the ethics of their game design that's a much better place to start.

 

[Gingerale]

So I have a bit of fomo sometimes. How do I know a car from a weekly challenge is rare? I got the Ferrari just before the servers went down, should I do all the stuffike every week? Or do I need the backstage pass as well?

 

[sirjim73]

So I have a bit of fomo sometimes. How do I know a car from a weekly challenge is rare? I got the Ferrari just before the servers went down, should I do all the stuffike every week? Or do I need the backstage pass as well?

"Hard to Find" cars are previous Forzathon rewards and therefore "rare" and worth getting if you dont have them. This usually includes the 20 point weekly car rewards and sometimes cars rewarded from winning challenges in the Forzathon aswell.

Anything listed as "common", "rare", etc can be bought in Autoshow for credits and is therefore NOT rare.

The Backstage Pass is used to buy a "Hard to Find" car in the Backstage section. At this early stage, it's worth collecting Backstage Passes if you can via 40 points reward but I recommend you don't spend them unless you have to.

The game does rely HEAVILY on fomo with the weekly car rewards which is the worst part of the game BY FAR in my opinion, but having said that ALL Hard to Find cars will eventually be available via Backstage Passes (2 each week)

Myself, I am missing about 40 Hard to Find cars because I found 3.5 years of weekly FOMO too much and had to take 2 breaks from playing as a result.

 

[Seb75]

Wheelspins are currency by itself. Even if you think they aren't, you can buy them with forzathon points.

Point isn't in fact you can gamble your money, but simple fact of gambling. Its addictive in wrong way.

I am sorry inCloud, but I think you are pretty much alone with your opinion here.
Wheelspins are just a gift the game gives you for playing it which in turn provides you with a random gift (car/money/clothes).
No need for grinding as it is, in my humble opinion, just a bonus for enjoying the game.
I never grinded to get points to "buy" a wheelspin with forzathon points. But then again I played from the beginning and it is probably a different experience for you starting new into the game after its been around for 3,5 years. A lot of things you complain about weren´t around when we started FH5. Believe me, we had a lot to complain about when FH5 started (so many bugs... 🙄)
I rely enjoyed it for all of those years, even if there where some frustrating times too. I hope you can still enjoy the game.

 

[inCloud]

Wheelspins are just a gift the game gives you for playing it which in turn provides you with a random gift

They are functionally slot machines, visually slot machines, sounds like slot machines. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. Fact that it doesn't use IRL money, doesn't change that whole idea of slot machines isnt healthy at all.

A lot of things you complain about weren´t around when we started FH5

Man, I playing since release.

 

[MagpieRacer]

They are functionally slot machines, visually slot machines, sounds like slot machines. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. Fact that it doesn't use IRL money, doesn't change that whole idea of slot machines isnt healthy at all.

It's a design choice. They could simply do it in the background and present you with a random prize for levelling up, wheelspins just visualise it.

It's not gambling, it's not PTW, MTX, currency or whatever.

 

[Edax 76]

They are functionally slot machines, visually slot machines, sounds like slot machines. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. Fact that it doesn't use IRL money, doesn't change that whole idea of slot machines isnt healthy at all.

Man, I playing since release.

Dude come on. Slot machines get their name from the fact that there is a slot on the machine to insert a coin (i.e payment) for a go/spin.

Please explain to me how we can pay for a wheelspin in FH5 anytime we want one?

It isn't gambling, it isn't unhealthy (both descriptions you've used) and it's not bad to have wheelspins in game.

Did you know that driving as we do in game is bad in real life? Again by using the base of your argument that things that are potentially bad should be banned please explain why you are using double standards and playing FH5? After if you get hooked on going around corners in a town in game at 90 mph how long until temptation potentially makes you want to try it in real life?

If you counter my argument with "That's ridiculous" then you'll be able to see and understand our collective point of view with your wheelspin nonsense.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Dude come on. Slot machines get their name from the fact that there is a slot on the machine to insert a coin (i.e payment) for a go/spin.

Please explain to me how we can pay for a wheelspin in FH5 anytime we want one?

It isn't gambling, it isn't unhealthy (both descriptions you've used) and it's not bad to have wheelspins in game.

Did you know that driving as we do in game is bad in real life? Again by using the base of your argument that things that are potentially bad should be banned please explain why you are using double standards and playing FH5? After if you get hooked on going around corners in a town in game at 90 mph how long until temptation potentially makes you want to try it in real life?

If you counter my argument with "That's ridiculous" then you'll be able to see and understand our collective point of view with your wheelspin nonsense.

Wait we can't do this in real life? How am I meant to earn real wheelspins, given that I can't buy them? /S

 

[Komrad Syka]

Come on... Why can't we just move on about this small problem? It's been two days talking about this mtx, wheelspins as gacha scam and so on

 

[Nacho Libre]

Come on... Why can't we just move on about this small problem? It's been two days talking about this mtx, wheelspins as gacha scam and so on

Agreed, so, in the news department... It seems FH added another million players and now sits at 46.2 million... I wonder why.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Its been tiresome reading this thread in the past few days.

 

[nukleabomb]

Its been tiresome reading this thread in the past few days.

Agreed. It has been spinning its wheels.

 

[BWX]

So I gave up trying to play yesterday and figured I’d check down detector to see if it’s fixed yet. lol it knows I want to play I guess and does not want me to. 😆
I paid $100 for this game. Can’t even play it all weekend. What the Frick. LOL

 

[skazz]

Agreed, so, in the news department... It seems FH added another million players and now sits at 46.2 million... I wonder why.

The FH reddit forums are almost always positive, but right now they are also filled with enthusiastic PS5 players enjoying their first few days/weeks in the game.

I'm glad to see it. FH5, even after over 500 hours played (and many hundreds more with FH3/FH4) still puts a smile on my face every time I play. It's just such a relaxed and likeable game, and giving it to PS5 players is good for everyone.

 

[Edax 76]

You'll hear no more from me on the matter.

As for the servers issue. I had trouble last night but I was in and playing ok this morning. UK based.

 

[sirjim73]

If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's a racing pigeon...


I think the only thing with FH5 is it felt very samey to FH4 especially at launch. Eventlab has been the biggest addition really. But then, it's difficult to see what could massively change. The only new game mode I think is Hide and Seek (which I've kept well hidden from).

FH6 will need freshening up a bit with some new game modes/ideas I feel.

PS5 players have the best of everything here - with no previous FH games available, FH5 must feel "fresh" and "new" to PS5 players, so I'm not surprised it's doing well and is very popular.

Well, apart from Eliminator obviously...

 

[Edax 76]

If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's a racing pigeon...


I think the only thing with FH5 is it felt very samey to FH4 especially at launch. Eventlab has been the biggest addition really. But then, it's difficult to see what could massively change. The only new game mode I think is Hide and Seek (which I've kept well hidden from).

FH6 will need freshening up a bit with some new game modes/ideas I feel.

PS5 players have the best of everything here - with no previous FH games available, FH5 must feel "fresh" and "new" to PS5 players, so I'm not surprised it's doing well and is very popular.

Well, apart from Eliminator obviously...

I could personally lose The Eliminator and Hide and Seek from FH6 and be very happy. That's only because I really don't enjoy online play unless I know the other players.

One thing I would love to see in FH6 is ghosting in The Trial between human players. It's implemented in free roam in FH5 so it can't be hard to put in The Trial next time round. It would go a long way to reducing poor play from others (and that's as diplomatic as I'm putting it 😂😂😂).

I would like to see a bigger map with more content in it as well. Mexico is too open, a deliberate choice maybe because of The Eliminator? Bring back more towns and a large city, and more technical roads, like the ones on the Rally DLC.

Finally let us use other people's liveries and vinyls in our own designs and them share them. Then every time someone uses a livery or vinyl of yours and gets a download you get a Kudos point or a sale nets you 5 Kudos points. Kudos points could be used then for accolade awards or special purchases in the Forza Shop on Kudos Points exclusive items. This use of Kudos points on top of their current use would I feel give them some purpose.

 

[inCloud]

Slot machines get their name from the fact that there is a slot on the machine to insert a coin (i.e payment) for a go/spin.

You could buy wheelspins, I already mentioned it. Fact that there are other ways of obtaining spins doesn't make it any different. Online casinos offen gives you free spins or have some referral programs, it doesn't make them non-gambling sites.

it isn't unhealthy

Problem gambling - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

https://gamblershelp.com.au/learn-about-gambling/gambling-and-how-it-affects-the-brain/

 

[Edax 76]

You could buy wheelspins, I already mentioned it. Fact that there are other ways of obtaining spins doesn't make it any different. Online casinos offen gives you free spins or have some referral programs, it doesn't make them non-gambling sites.

Problem gambling - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

https://gamblershelp.com.au/learn-about-gambling/gambling-and-how-it-affects-the-brain/

I made a promise, so......