Forza Motorsport 5 |OT| Where dreams are Realised

  • Thread starter phillgt2002
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Which begs the question, if you weren't going to respond to his points, why respond at all...? All it does is make you look petty

Because I found his response of "no because you're wrong" humorous as hell; particularly from a member known to go on random tirades about how awful the internet is to have discussions on. It actually makes me curious what your end game is, since it's pretty obvious that PZR Slim blew off half the post he responded to (his response to the fact that there are costs for physical goods, material and installation being specifically named, that simply don't apply for the argument he was forcing was "However you try and butter it up there is no difference"; and his response to why the development costs are held under different scrutiny between a real car car and a game's DLC was to not even acknowledge the point and simply repeat his bit about paying extra for "extras"), yet you took no issue with that; but you took issue with the fact that I pointed out that his response was to blew off what I said.


I do feel like a lot of people in this debate are remarkably well informed about the inner workings of Turn 10 though, since they can unequivocally say what has been worked on when, and what is finished when the game goes gold vs what is finished when the game's street date arrives... Cause, you know, those are the same thing right?

I will however, take the egg on my face with this, because I mistook a couple of the cars shown in the launch trailer as being the F70 when combined with the screenshot of the car. Though I never claimed that a game's street date and the game's gold date were the same, so that's a reach on your part.
 
It actually makes me curious what your end game is, since it's pretty obvious that PZR Slim blew off half the post he responded to (his response to the fact that there are costs for physical goods, material and installation being specifically named, that simply don't apply for the argument he was forcing was "However you try and butter it up there is no difference"; and his response to why the development costs are held under different scrutiny between an car and a game's DLC was to not even acknowledge the point and simply repeat his bit about paying extra for extras), yet you took no issue with that; but you took issue with the fact that I pointed out that his response was to blew off what I said.
I took no issue with his post because he didn't blow off your points and level a cheap shot against you, he just blew off your points. His metaphor is bad, and I don't agree with a lot of what he says either, but he's sticking to the points instead of the people. You didn't.



Though I never claimed that a game's street date and the game's gold date were the same, so that's a reach on your part.
That would be a stretch if it's what I meant. I wasn't implying that anyone thought that, since it's obviously untrue. It was a bit of sarcasm which apparently didn't translate.
What I meant was that done at Launch =\= done at gold date, which is something that the 'it's ready day one so it should be on the disk' argument seems to convienently overlook...
 
So where did I attack the man rather than the argument? What cheap shot did I level against him specifically? Mocking a rebuttal for blowing off a counter argument entirely and instead simply repeating yourself as if it was never raised isn't an ad hominem.
 
Fair enough. I just still don't see that it was necessary or particularly mature :lol: but you're correct, I suppose it isn't an ad hominem.

No response for the second half of the post then eh?
 
I never said that something finished at launch means something is done at the gold date either; and I already admitted that I got confused into thinking that one of the cars featured in the launch trailer was the F70 (I think it was the Pagani instead), so I'm not sure what you're expecting me to say.
 
Damn, checking in to see the latest reactions to the trailer, the latest news.... and as always, a bunch of people fighting

ITT I'm stoked about the game
 
Is anyone an IGN Prime member? I want that uncompressed video but I refuse to pay $6.95 for what ultimately amounts to a video. :lol:
 
Is anyone an IGN Prime member? I want that uncompressed video but I refuse to pay $6.95 for what ultimately amounts to a video. :lol:

What? IGN Prime? I didn't even know that even existed. Who would pay for that and what are the benefits besides high quality videos? Haha.
 
My reaction at work yesterday

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From Helios: "You can create custom liveries for the F1 cars, am looking forwards to seeing what original creations the community is going to come up with
smile.gif
"

Woot!
 
From Helios: "You can create custom liveries for the F1 cars, am looking forwards to seeing what original creations the community is going to come up with
smile.gif
"

Woot!

How about the the whole current f1 grid. Within a week you will see every livery ever created for an f1 car.
 
I too am quite excited for F1 in Forza. It's about time 👍


Anyways, I said that I would have a post with my thoughts on the Day One DLC, and here it is:
Basically, my main argument here is this: How does it follow that ready on day one means it was done when the game shipped?

In the past, Forza games have generally 'gone gold' roughly a month before the game comes out. That means that anything that will be on the disk needs to be done. In my mind, that means that the gold day is when any development of things that are intended to be included in the $60 game will stop. That $60 should cover everything that is developed before the game goes gold, and all of those things should go on the disk.

Here's the sticking point for me: Assuming that the game goes gold about a month before it releases, that leaves, for the sake of argument, 4 weeks from that day until the game comes out. Even if only 150 people work only 40 hour weeks for that time period, that's 24,000 hours of additional development that can happen between the gold date and launch. Now, we all know that T10 employs a lot more than 150 people, and we also know that working 60-90 hour weeks is not uncommon when it's crunch time in the video game industry, so it's probably a lot more than 24,000 hours of work that potentially could be done.

That work, completed after the game goes gold but before it comes out, could potentially have tangible assets ready on the day the game comes out. Like say, I don't know, a car pack? The other car packs for Forza are spaced 1 month apart, which means that it's fairly easy to assume that it takes roughly one month to create them. And how much time is there between gold day and street day? That's right, roughly one month.

Now, I can already hear the argument that “they have pictures so clearly it's done now” and that's total garbage. In video games, a picture is the equivalent (to borrow the earlier metaphor) of a concept car. Just because it's up on stage doesn't mean it's ready to sell. A picture is really easy, but that hardly means that the car is 100% done and fully usable in the game. It could mean that, but it could also not mean that at all. Assuming that it does mean that it's done is baseless (just as assuming that it isn't done is) and unless you have evidence, I see it merely as pointless speculation.

Basically then, the argument that the day 1 car pack should be free is an argument that the developer should not be paid for a month of work they did after the game went gold, and that's where it loses me. I'm all for free stuff, but let's face it, this is a multibillion dollar industry, and giving away free stuff isn't high on the list of good business practices. Some free stuff, sure, and T10 has given us some free stuff in other games, but on a consistent basis you need to charge people if you're doing work.

If the work is done after the game goes gold, why shouldn't they charge for it? How is using that month any different from using the month after the game comes out? Just because it's ready on launch day doesn't mean it's ready on gold day.
 
Who hasn't received a code from MS for the LIVERIED R8?


Basically then, the argument that the day 1 car pack should be free is an argument that the developer should not be paid for a month of work they did after the game went gold, and that's where it loses me. I'm all for free stuff, but let's face it, this is a multibillion dollar industry, and giving away free stuff isn't high on the list of good business practices. Some free stuff, sure, and T10 has given us some free stuff in other games, but on a consistent basis you need to charge people if you're doing work.

If the work is done after the game goes gold, why shouldn't they charge for it? How is using that month any different from using the month after the game comes out? Just because it's ready on launch day doesn't mean it's ready on gold day.


Do you think there's more profit in the game itself or the DLC content that fallows?
If from the start you know that you have a deadline, you'll do what you can to meet the deadline with as much content as possible, but if you also know that there's a grace period after the deadline and you can make more money on the later content, why push yourself to meet that deadline?
PD is doing the same thing.
 
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Not to sound like an advertisement or anything, but I was going to prepare a blog post a long time ago asking whether Formula 1-type racing or rally racing (besides the point-to-point material) would find their way into Forza Motorsport. I saw the different bits featuring the IndyCar Series machines. Then I saw a recent trailer... featuring one of the Lotus F1 cars. Not the John Player Special car, but the modern Lotus F1 car. Someone with so little Forza experience like myself can only imagine how challenging it would be to race an F1 car under Forza physics.

Having both IndyCar and F1 machines will provide a new perspective of racing in the Forza series. I'd be quite excited seeing these machines driven in anger in Forza Motorsport 5. You all bestowed with XBOX Ones are going to be very happy, I think.
 
What is everyone's problem with DLC? Do you complain when your new car doesn't come with all the optional extras at the price of the standard model? DLC is no different to options on new cars. No one forces you to buy it.

True, but this car doesnt seem to come with a steering wheel or tires. No ring day one? Gimme a break.
 
I know I'd rather wait for the full, laser-scanned goodness than have the old version in the game for a few months. Nevermind how many issues that'd lead to, replacing a track in-game with a new model. Especially if it's paid DLC, as it would separate the online community (and leaderboards).
 
Today I had the opportunity to take a couple laps in Forza 5. Here are my initial impressions. The setup was on a 75" Samsung LED. A great TV, but either they had dynamic contrast turned on, or the contrast levels were at 11. I got in two laps of Laguna Seca with the Ferrari F12. I had a small crowd around me which made me nervous as hell, but here is what I got out of it...
  • The new controller feels pretty good. The matte finish feels much nicer in my hands; higher quality. The analog sticks are noticeably smaller, though that's neither a bad nor good thing. The extra grip on them is a very welcome addition. The d-pad... oh the d-pad... it's beautiful. Sadly, I wasn't able to test the trigger vibrations. The Microsoft employee suggested leaving ABS and TCS on, thinking that may be why, but "hell nah". I'll chalk that up to it being a demo unit. I'm not quite sold on the bumpers. They only depress on the very outer edges, meaning if you're use to hitting them dead center, you're going to either have to hit them harder or move your fingers outward. This caused a few mis-shifts.

  • Graphics are definitely a step up from Forza 4. Like I mentioned above, the TV settings were not ideal, but in general I could tell that the lighting seemed more realistic and the fact that it looked good on such a massive screen says a lot. I did notice some strange artifacts in door jams when I would change the color of the car. The only way I can describe it is it made the car look fake. The interior of the car looked great, though I wouldn't say that it's quite photorealistic. Oh, for all the people complaining about the windshield reflections being too distracting: I only noticed them once someone else was playing. My biggest gripe with the graphics - No car has that much orange peel. Hell, I've never seen an orange with that much orange peel! I hope they tone it down in the retail version. However, I will say that it does depend on the angle. Certain angles and the game was straight up hardcore car porn.

  • Most importantly: Physics! I drive with all assists off (though I decided to go with normal steering), braking-line only, and manual w/clutch, so today was no different. Well, the first round I did manual no-clutch because I wasn't sure if the buttons would have been mapped the same as FM4 (which they are). I was ecstatic to found out that this isn't your grandpa's Forza. The first thing I noticed is threshold-braking is much more nuanced. With only two laps, I was never able to find the right amount of brake pressure; which I'm perfectly ok with. Even when I thought I found the sweet spot on the controller, so many other variables were at play that I had to change it up depending on the corner and my entry to said corner. It feels hands down more realistic then anything in FM4. The second thing I noticed was steering response and that how the car reacted to it was phenomenal. I always liked the steering responsiveness of GT5 and I think Forza finally nailed that feeling and then some. I wish I had more to tell you about how the car felt in the corners, but I had my hands so full with breaking and steering control that it was hard to truly get a feel for it. What I can say is that it ultimately felt much better than FM4's already sterling physics.
 

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Do you know what build you were playing?
I didn't ask. It did have the same 5 cars (R18, F12, P1, ST, 300SL) we've seen in the demo videos. They also had a playable Killer Instinct demo.
 
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I still think Forza Motorsport 5 is going to be a great game. After reading a lot of comments and seeing a lot of reactions, however, part of me is saying that FM5 is only going to be SO good. I think about the 200 cars thing along with the fabulous graphics. I'm sure more cars will probably be added as downloadable content, but I don't really think FM5 will be any serious failure according to some of the rants people have made about FM5.

I guess what I'm asking is... pretend I'm on the fence about Forza Motorsport 5. Convince me to get FM5 despite some of the possible negatives and concerns people have expressed about this game. Or HOW would you convince someone to get Forza Motorsport 5 based on what people have ranted about this game?
 
I guess what I'm asking is... pretend I'm on the fence about Forza Motorsport 5. Convince me to get FM5 despite some of the possible negatives and concerns people have expressed about this game. Or HOW would you convince someone to get Forza Motorsport 5 based on what people have ranted about this game?

Ummm, FM5 will be a great way to practice and hone your skills for when FM6 is released?
Is that good enough?

Based on what we know about FM5, I have no doubt it will be a good game. You just have to ask yourself if it will be good enough to justify a system purchase. I don't think anyone can or should try to make that decision for you. All people can do is give your their biased opinion and the reasons they have for wanting/not wanting the game.
 
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