Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

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This is the kind of transparency that I've wanted for months and months, maybe even years. Some actual things they're working on and might come to the game instead of "stay tuned, we'll have more to reveal in the coming months".
I'd argue that it took them a long time to do this because they were not really sure of their ability to deliver. Clearly they struggled to meet the launch date, and in that situation where they were busy putting out fires they really didn't have a good idea how fast they could make actual improvements.

Now things have settled down, I hope they keep this communication up. It will help them retain players (or even get back players who gave up months ago).
 
48 minutes per week is pitiful in my opinion (when there's no substantial career mode to start with). If there was a substantial career mode, it would be different (to me atleast)

Unfortunately, this is now the "normal" (see GT7, FH4, FH5 etc...) so it is not at all FM23's issue alone, it's nearly all driving games under the current game structures (EA WRC being the 2023 exception that proves the rule).

@PJTierney Please tell your colleagues EVERY SINGLE DAY not to go down this route in any EA driving game 🙏

Imagine getting the next game in the FFVII trilogy 48 minutes per week. Or even Elder Scrolls 6 and Starfield! If this strategy isn't viable for them, why do people believe it's different for a driving game?

Peesumably the stats are saying to the game bosses that people "prefer" playing 60 minutes per week, but IF YOU ONLY GIVE PEOPLE 60 minutes content, they will only ever play 60 minutes. So you're inventing your own stats by what you give the gamer?
The 48 minutes per week is how much you are FORCED to play the game, playing it in a manner imposed on you by the devs, just to keep up with obtaining the "free" new cars. I would prefer this amount to be zero minutes per week.

There is no limit to how much you can play the game each week in a manner of your choosing. If that were somehow limited to 60 mins per week, I'd understand your point, but the game doesn't do anything to limit how much you can play it each week. I spent more than 60 mins setting a rivals time on the new Brands Hatch track in ONE car. It would take 9 hours just to do the same with one car in each class. You can repeat the Rulebook Racers series with a different car each time, I've already done it with 3 different cars. There are some people who play multiplayer for many hours a week.

If anything, the game has the opposite problem, it requires a huge time investment. Take the current pool of tracks for Forza GT Spec multiplayer, and develop an optimal tune for each one for each track to see which is fastest. That will take you a LOT of time. That's why Chris said in the recent live stream that they are considering having "no tuning" races. It was interesting that he seemed to be saying that they allowed tuning so people could give cars a "feel" that they liked, they never imagined it would be mandatory to spend hours tuning each car to stand any chance of being competitive.

Now, I do agree the career mode should be improved, in particular with more varied races instead of the same simple formula repeated over and over again. But please don't ask them to force us to play the game that way by locking content behind it, because there's already so many other things to do in the game that many of us would rather do instead.
 
I agreed the game has improved and I like it, but there is still some problems
As a solo player I wish there where more solo content and options to setup some specifics options (tire and fuel wear), no more timed events and a global strategy to use your upgraded cars later in career
I wish AI improved even more and penalty system keep improving, I also wish there will be some new legend tracks like fujimi kaido back

So far this game has a lot of potential, I like the physics, FFB, graphics and customisation, but it lacks polish

I hope someday it will be the game it was supposed to be
 
I havent noticed too much at least in career mode and in freeplay I almost always use rolling start just to avoid issues like that. I watched the twitch video and they did say theres a lot of AI fixes coming so maybe thats one of them.
This happened in career mode. Sorry about that I should have stated that originally. I also use rolling starts almost all the time in freeplay.
 
I noticed something last night that I don't remember seeing before. On standing starts the AI cars bogged down badly. So much that I was able to just zip right through them up into 2nd place once and into the lead on another occasion. I don't remember that happening before. Yes you might have one or two of them bog down but not 8 out the top 10.
AI has been like this from the start and honestly I haven`t noticed too much of their "fixing". It`s easier to recognize how bad they actually are on certain tracks, like when doing a standing start from the mid of a 24-car field at Road America. The AI-field acts like a parody of a game; all cars ahead of you are obliously programmed to slow us down & ruin our race while the leader boosts away, programmed to be "unbeatable". Pathetic turn10.
 
I hope someday T10 can allow you to change cars in a championship in the career mode. For example: The series of events that are based on car type (as well as the class based ones), each race you complete in a series should let you change cars after finishing a race, so it doesn't get tedious having to drive the same car over and over until you've completed said series. T10 had this for FM7, and it saddened me when they took it out to "build a bond" with singular cars you chose. I want to bond with ALL of my cars like in Horizon, not with a selected few.

I also really, REALLY hope T10 can bring back Open Track Day for online. That mode was the best where you could even make little cash in it! Heck, it will even be a great place to level up your favorite cars and learn various tracks as well!
 
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AI has been like this from the start and honestly I haven`t noticed too much of their "fixing". It`s easier to recognize how bad they actually are on certain tracks, like when doing a standing start from the mid of a 24-car field at Road America. The AI-field acts like a parody of a game; all cars ahead of you are obliously programmed to slow us down & ruin our race while the leader boosts away, programmed to be "unbeatable". Pathetic turn10.
I agree. The one place I use a standing start instead of a rolling start is LeMans. It seems like all of the cars almost get stuck in that final small chicane and try and shimmy shake through it while the lead cars just rocket away.
 
Beyond the obvious things to fix in this game, some small things I would like to see
  • Be able to have the current car selected, show in main garage, instead of nested in My Cars
  • In Free Play/Advanced/add weather slots for scripting weather
  • In Upgrade & Tune/Performance- be able to rotate or tab through views of car when selecting parts
  • In Free Play, after racing event is over, screen that shows to continue, watch replay etc., add option to modify custom event
  • In Design & Paint/Find Designs- be able to preview livery's before finalizing, like previous games
  • At Race screen when playing career or custom race allow option to show car names instead of user names
  • At Race screen, add last lap time, option to expand leader board to show more cars in full order, this is because as it currently only shows 4 lines, P2 & etc., don't show, so you wouldn't know what pit stop there on
  • Tags that show over other cars or leader board show what current tire is selected
  • Option to turn off visible damage, when playing career or custom race (Because AI is so bad at turn 1:))
  • On Difficulty settings page, on Expert Rules, maybe Sport Rules change Start & Skip Practice to Qualifying
  • Add replay on Test Track
  • Add High/Low beam lights and flasher
  • In pit menu when selecting tires/fuel show at left side of page where it's blank leader board & track map below
  • At Race Scree add proximity radar (obviously)
  • In Free Play menu when creating a custom race show at top the current car selected Specs PI, HP etc., & what category it is in
  • On photos & Replay saves, the game needs to generate a file name that the user can either except or override.
  • On track map show numbers or colors for cars P1, P2 & P3
  • Whether in career mode or Free Play where track map is shown before gameplay, show TOD for sunrise and sunset
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I agree with you with all of them, and I especially want to see the following as well:
  • No more "come-and-go" mechanics, all tours should be permanent in the main Builders' Cup and all reward cars from completing tours should be available to buy and rent in Free Play.
  • Rental cars in Free Play should be given a little bit more flexibility; add the option to select manufacturer colors for these cars, as well as to tune them based on their default setup, and to change their tire compound. The only upgrades available to rental cars should be the tire compound, nothing more, nothing less. (That way it's similar to older Gran Turismo games, but you still cannot upgrade and customize rental cars.)
  • Cars from owned car packs (especially with the Car Pass) should be saved to the system, and not the servers. Or better yet, do away with the always-online requirement and make the game fully available offline. We've seen the fiasco with The Crew and I believe Turn Ten wouldn't want to repeat their mistakes.
  • Custom championships similar to Assetto Corsa where you can create your own championships and share them with other players, complete with custom grid support.
  • Custom grids in Free Play, similar to GT7, where you can hand-pick the opponents' cars and rename your opponents.

Then while they're at it, they can add back more recycled and new cars and tracks to grow the game's content over time.
 
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I've said it before, but Free Play events would be a lot more enjoyable for me if there was an option to practice a set proportion of race length laps and challenge the grid as an alternative to the current start position options.

Throw in an option to qualify as well for the many people who'd prefer that. While we're wishing for the moon, why not allow the option to set up full race weekends with separate practice and qualifying sessions?
 
For me, as a single player player, this game needs one thing only. A CAREER MODE. Builders Cup is objectively poor (EVERYONE who mentions it agrees with this - i've not seen ONE comment saying otherwise in 7 months).

Due to GaaS we're "given" the holed out career mode two hours a week (if you do the practice laps) or 1 hour (if you just do the 8 races [I'm including Featured Tour and Open Tour events averaging across 4 weeks). Actually we're getting 4/5 of an hour a week for this "tour".

48 minutes per week is pitiful in my opinion (when there's no substantial career mode to start with). If there was a substantial career mode, it would be different (to me atleast)

Unfortunately, this is now the "normal" (see GT7, FH4, FH5 etc...) so it is not at all FM23's issue alone, it's nearly all driving games under the current game structures (EA WRC being the 2023 exception that proves the rule).

@PJTierney Please tell your colleagues EVERY SINGLE DAY not to go down this route in any EA driving game 🙏

Imagine getting the next game in the FFVII trilogy 48 minutes per week. Or even Elder Scrolls 6 and Starfield! If this strategy isn't viable for them, why do people believe it's different for a driving game?

Peesumably the stats are saying to the game bosses that people "prefer" playing 60 minutes per week, but IF YOU ONLY GIVE PEOPLE 60 minutes content, they will only ever play 60 minutes. So you're inventing your own stats by what you give the gamer?

Sorry for the rant!
I'm just tired of holed out games being released and this game is no different.
Even if I'm not someone who wants to play career mode anymore, I get that it's pretty weak as it currently is, but I think if you look at the trend it's not really something you can really count on them "fixing" at this point, at least not for the foreseeable future... Which means you will probably have to make a bit of your own fun in Free Play.

I used to do this some older games like Pro Race Driver when we didn't have multiplayer, I would basically make my own championship with the AI and track the championship points in an Excel spreadsheet. It's a little inconvenient, but not hard and you can sorta play "content creator" yourself.

Basically, imagine Esaki asked you to create a series to be added to the game. Make up a theme, choose a list of cars to select from, choose tracks and conditions and lap counts, and run that to see how it turns out. I find it pretty fun to find cars that make fun rivals, whether it's for their history or just because of their performance.

Alternatively, think of real life racing you enjoyed watching, and make some tweaks to it that couldn't happen in real life because of safety/budget/politics, like racing F1 at the Nordschleife after 1976 or bringing V8 Supercars to American tracks.

The varied car list and the ability to upgrade them yourself, and the variety of circuits available allow you to flex your creative side, and even if it would be nice to have tools like custom championships and such you can still work with it. I would really hope they could add in custom championships at some point though, but given that they even disappeared from the Horizon series to me kinda dulls hope on that front.

You could also try looking for some organized multiplayer that works with your schedule, which is where I think games like this truly shine. You can bring a lot of people with varied experiences/backgrounds/interests/skill levels together for interesting and creative series (even though most people just drive ****ing GT3 cars all the time). Most series put together about an hour worth of racing each week, and it gives you something to do some testing/practicing for and often you will be able to find some people to race/practice with on other nights of the week.

Someone around here could even make an official GTPlanet Forza series...
Now, I do agree the career mode should be improved, in particular with more varied races instead of the same simple formula repeated over and over again. But please don't ask them to force us to play the game that way by locking content behind it, because there's already so many other things to do in the game that many of us would rather do instead.
Quoted for emphasis. The career mode is bad but having more prizes locked behind career mode won't make it better in any way.
Beyond the obvious things to fix in this game, some small things I would like to see
  • Tags that show over other cars or leader board show what current tire is selected
I think this should be an option in the lobby settings, not something that is always on or in personal HUD settings.

It is obviously useful information, but sometimes having that information can make the races a bit processional as everyone just moves out of the way when they see the car behind is on faster tires, or patiently follows when they know the person in front is on a different strategy and will have to stop soon. The mystery of what your opponents are using is an interesting dynamic during a race, and I wouldn't want to lose that all the time.

It would be interesting to have on the results screen at least, so after the race is over you can see what people did but it leaves it a mystery during the race.


I hope someday T10 can allow you to change cars in a championship in the career mode. For example: The series of events that are based on car type (as well as the class based ones), each race you complete in a series should let you change cars after finishing a race, so it doesn't get tedious having to drive the same car over and over until you've completed said series. T10 had this for FM7, and it saddened me when they took it out to "build a bond" with singular cars you chose. I want to bond with ALL of my cars like in Horizon, not with a selected few.

I also really, REALLY hope T10 can bring back Open Track Day for online. That feature was the best where you could even make little cash in it! Heck, it will even be a great place to level up your favorite cars and learn different tracks as well!
Yeah I think you are locked to the car because they wanted you to feel the progression of earning CP and upgrading the car from race to race to feel how the car evolves. Even though they have done away with the car level grinding, the career is still structured like that so I kinda don't see them changing it.

The Open Track Day things would have been great to help ease the pain of grinding in early days, but they still would be a decent addition now I suppose, but I'm not sure the game has the playerbase to keep adding more and more public multiplayer options in for. I suppose adding some more might bring more players back, but will it be enough to offset diluting the pool? There are a lot of people who refuse to do multiplayer and I don't think Open Track Days would convince them to finally make the switch since, from my experience in FM7, they are just as... "unclean" as regular public lobby races can be.
 
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I think we should all load up these great ideas particularly for freeplay and drop them on Chris Esaki on the next forza friday twitch. I really want to see if he knows whether they will expand on freeplay in these ways mentioned above because there are some great ideas that a lot of us seem to agree on. This would make the game more playable and fun on that part.
 
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The only time I spend looking at the cars is when I'm checking out a livery. But I jump between using the chase cam and cockpit views. And have thought from day one that some of the interiors look off, like they're too plain or something. And those springs on that door are SO BAD, they look 2-D.
 
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Yeah I think you are locked to the car because they wanted you to feel the progression of earning CP and upgrading the car from race to race to feel how the car evolves. Even though they have done away with the car level grinding, the career is still structured like that so I kinda don't see them changing it.
You could never say never, right? 😅 Similar to the car locks. If this request becomes popular, T10 would definitely have to change it. I get where they were trying to do with the current concept, but the races are (imo) so long that I get bored with driving one car for an entire series quick. That just me mind you, haha. :P
The Open Track Day things would have been great to help ease the pain of grinding in early days, but they still would be a decent addition now I suppose, but I'm not sure the game has the playerbase to keep adding more and more public multiplayer options in for. I suppose adding some more might bring more players back, but will it be enough to offset diluting the pool? There are a lot of people who refuse to do multiplayer and I don't think Open Track Days would convince them to finally make the switch since, from my experience in FM7, they are just as... "unclean" as regular public lobby races can be.
I more so meant that Open Track Days can be a place where you can relax from all the racing, and just chill. It's a small suggestion that may not bring everybody back, but for those who still currently play FM23, I think it will add at least some longevity to the game, you know? :) Though you're not wrong in saying it will still have players griefing other players because they're THAT miserable. :lol:
 
You could never say never, right? 😅 Similar to the car locks. If this request becomes popular, T10 would definitely have to change it. I get where they were trying to do with the current concept, but the races are (imo) so long that I get bored with driving one car for an entire series quick. That just me mind you, haha. :P

I more so meant that Open Track Days can be a place where you can relax from all the racing, and just chill. It's a small suggestion that may not bring everybody back, but for those who still currently play FM23, I think it will add at least some longevity to the game, you know? :) Though you're not wrong in saying it will still have players griefing other players because they're THAT miserable. :lol:
To be fair, now you can skip the practice easily, a whole series of 4 races can be done and dusted in 30-40 minutes, which is not all that long in one car.
Remember that FM7 achievement that requires you to run the race for 3 hours?
 
To be fair, now you can skip the practice easily, a whole series of 4 races can be done and dusted in 30-40 minutes, which is not all that long in one car.
Remember that FM7 achievement that requires you to run the race for 3 hours?
I can definitely do those 4 races just fine. It's just that I would like to drive more than one car per series via car type of that series for 30-40 minutes.

And that 3 hour achievement in FM7? Never completed it. I can't do a race that lasts THAT long. :lol:
 
Made a few new tunes on FM8 if you wanna try them out (GT: mtecRacing)
  • ‘17 Focus HND (Help I accidentally built a 4WD Group 5 car)
  • ‘85 AE86 BAL (Well-balanced and easy to drive C-class tune, can understeer a little at times so give it some throttle if you’re struggling to get it to rotate)
  • ‘85 AE86 Race (Insane A-class build with race tyres, turbo swap, fully upgraded drivetrain and chassis and added rear aero to cope with the extra power. No front aero though, so be prepared for understeer if you attack corners too hard)
(HND means Handling build, BAL means Balanced build)
 
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AI has been like this from the start and honestly I haven`t noticed too much of their "fixing". It`s easier to recognize how bad they actually are on certain tracks, like when doing a standing start from the mid of a 24-car field at Road America. The AI-field acts like a parody of a game; all cars ahead of you are obliously programmed to slow us down & ruin our race while the leader boosts away, programmed to be "unbeatable". Pathetic turn10.

I agree. The one place I use a standing start instead of a rolling start is LeMans. It seems like all of the cars almost get stuck in that final small chicane and try and shimmy shake through it while the lead cars just rocket away.
This hasn't been my experience at all. I've had better races since they improved the AI. It probably depends on the AI difficulty setting and grid position. I've started a lot of races anywhere from 5th - 10th and, in most cases I out accelerate the AI until about 2nd or 3rd and then either have a good battle with the lead cars or they are just faster. There are a lot of factors for that but I'm sure some cars just perform better.

I highly doubt they are programmed to "slow us down and ruin our race." I've seen the AI make mistakes many times including things like the leader go off in the dirt and drop several positions and not recover. The AI still isn't perfect and it probably never will be, but it is a vast improvement from where it started with randomly braking on straights and other odd things.
 
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This was the original definition of drivatar: Drivatar is the new system controlling opponent cars in Forza 5. It takes data from your racing style and that of many others via the Xbox Cloud and brings it together to shape how your opponents will drive during a race, making for a much richer, more realistic experience. In other words, if you drove better, you would face variants of yourself that mimicked your tendencies... and most likely, the game would select drivatar profiles from elsewhere with similar driving styles to yours.

I still pop FM6 once in a while, and the competition there is leagues better than what we have now. The only thing that has somewhat improved in FM23 is the start of the race/first corner approach, like in Spa... and then you will have them pile-up at Eau Rouge because they can't take it flat-out. At least the old left-right-left faint still works, and they fall for it every time because they rather brake check/block you than mind their own racing lines.
 
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This hasn't been my experience at all. I've had better races since they improved the AI. It probably depends on the AI difficulty setting and grid position. I've started a lot of races anywhere from 5th - 10th and, in most cases I out accelerate the AI until about 2nd or 3rd and then either have a good battle with the lead cars or they are just faster. There are a lot of factors for that but I'm sure some cars just perform better.

I highly doubt they are programmed to "slow us down and ruin our race." I've seen the AI make mistakes many times including things like the leader go off in the dirt and drop several positions and not recover. The AI still isn't perfect and it probably never will be, but it is a vast improvement from where it started with randomly braking on straights and other odd things.

It`s quite easy to observe this if you do standing-start races at several tracks with a long start-straight. Just go back and re-read Jezza819`s post where he could easily pass the whole field bcs they were busy braking and missing gears(?) at the start-stretch. But notice; the first two cars will boost away and do some incredible laptimes.

The extent to which this occurs will probably depend somewhat on which track, which car class and (for all I know) which level of difficulty has been chosen. (I run max angry AI) Of course, you won't experience this if you start right behind the boosted leader cars, only if you are packed further back in the starting field.
 
Thats weird. I actually like how the 599xx sounds right now same for the FXX K
They lack depth and dynamic range. The original sounds they had for these cars on launch day were fiercer, louder and "screamier", closer to the real cars IMO. Now everything feels toned down, including the exhaust reverb.

Also, the very first sound update for the 812 was correct - then they ruined that too.
 
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They lack depth and dynamic range. The original sounds they had for these cars on launch day were fiercer, louder and "screamier", closer to the real cars IMO. Now everything feels toned down, including the exhaust reverb.

Also, the very first sound update for the 812 was correct - then they ruined that too.

Sounds pretty good to me, it's never going to be perfect but the actual note on the engine sounds pretty damn close



 
How old is your gameplay video? That's not the latest sound they gave it in Update 7.

I made that video less than 10mins before posting, a 599xx going briefly around Indy for a few seconds doesn't make the most compelling content, I just recorded it to compare.

0yW8MBP.png
 
It`s quite easy to observe this if you do standing-start races at several tracks with a long start-straight. Just go back and re-read Jezza819`s post where he could easily pass the whole field bcs they were busy braking and missing gears(?) at the start-stretch. But notice; the first two cars will boost away and do some incredible laptimes.

The extent to which this occurs will probably depend somewhat on which track, which car class and (for all I know) which level of difficulty has been chosen. (I run max angry AI) Of course, you won't experience this if you start right behind the boosted leader cars, only if you are packed further back in the starting field.
You should re-read mine as well. I didn't say I started right behind the leaders, I start anywhere from 5th - 10th. Almost all of the races I do are standing start races and while there is still some random braking it isn't nearly as bad as it was.

I agree that track and difficulty choice are a factor, I run 6 or 7, I believe. Car class might as well, but probably not as much. During the V8 Titans Builder's Cup race I was consistently in a battle for 1st or 2nd and in most cases lapping the competition, but that's mostly on oval tracks. In the V10 series it wasn't quite like that, either I was in the lead and stayed there or the 1st car was ahead by a decent amount, but not to the point I couldn't catch them with a longer race.

The AI is going to make mistakes, as I said before, because it isn't perfect and neither are we as humans. Humans will make mistakes as well and the AI is supposed to imitate that.
 
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I made that video less than 10mins before posting, a 599xx going briefly around Indy for a few seconds doesn't make the most compelling content, I just recorded it to compare.

0yW8MBP.png
Interior sound may be passable. Don't you remember the sound they had on Day One? You're saying THIS sound is better than that? The external view/exhaust note especially was spot on at launch. Now the exhaust sound is weak and suppressed. That's not the sound these cars kick out IRL - they generate very high-pitched decibels, sounding loud, ferocious, snarly, shrill, and screamy. The update essentially took that away, I feel kinda robbed. We had perfectly good sounds for the V12 Ferrari hypercars.
 
Interior sound may be passable. Don't you remember the sound they had on Day One? You're saying THIS sound is better than that? The external view/exhaust note especially was spot on at launch. Now the exhaust sound is weak and suppressed. That's not the sound these cars kick out IRL - they generate very high-pitched decibels, sounding loud, ferocious, snarly, shrill, and screamy. The update essentially took that away, I feel kinda robbed. We had perfectly good sounds for the V12 Ferrari hypercars.

I don't play in 3rd person cam so can't comment sorry, I can just compare what we have now and to me it seems to capture quite well the engine note of the car, where it lacks is in induction noise and some of the nuance on downshifting.

[edit]: Here's what it sounded like 4 weeks ago, pretty subtle differences, I'm not even sure if my ears can distinguish there is a difference:
 
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