[RBR is a simulator only that makes no compromises, GT started as an arcade game that strived to be a sim, it's now getting to the point where true sim fans are able to enjoy it (like myself). but it still makes compromises when it comes to "simness".]
Yes, but if GT wasn't at all arcadey, polyphony would never have the funding to make such a polished franchise, that will build itself, eventually towards your ideal game. I am simply trying to say that there will always be a certain game-ness to good console games, and games full stop. No matter the sim-spin put on their supposedly hardcore physics models. To do otherwise would be commercial suicide. I am not convinced that we can really have good enough feedback - human interaction - with something as subtle as driving a race car, to have infinately complex physics - "simness" incorporated successfully into games and then have them still play well. As much a hardcore simmer as everyone here would like to think they are, I would like to see them try and enjoy a game with absolutely 100% realistic physics, warts and all. There is simply not the required subtlety in audio, controller feedback, spatial awareness... a real physicality with the car etc, that a real driver needs to actually drive right on the limit. Basically even "true sim fans" are happy for some REALLY well hidden training wheels that will never really leave any driving game. I am VERY happy at where GT has positioned itself as it is appropriate to the controller interface and feedback level you get with a dual shock - the controller most mainstream players will use. I'm not saying you can't go way more complex than GT - I would welcome it very warmly, there will be a line that is imposed by the control interface, that if crossed, the game will suck because it will feel twitchy and not smooth. What we enjoy most when we play - that smug, satisfying feeling of absolute control will start to erode and thus the game will not work so well. Regardless of how 'elite' people think they are. A player will always be human, one that needs ALL their senses to really enjoy a "true simulation". So lets all dispense with the ego and feelings of superiority. If many of us got the game we think we want, it would be unplayable. Lets just enjoy Gran Turismo for what it is. I am not attacking anyone here, I'm just wondering about what it really means to be a sim driver...