Forza

[code_kev]

Nitro, I think your forgot to put your brain in today.

 

[nitro_2005]

very funny

 

[sheruken]

I think what he means code is, PD should get the licences of all the cars and tracks featured in GT4 / 5 / 6 / 7 etc etc. So the Cars and Tracks featured in PD's games are right protected and no one else can use it (for games).
Well I think whats even better is, PD should get a license with which it becomes the SOLE producer of Driving/Racing games. "No other company would be allowed to make Racing / Driving Games, Sims etc" ..
Nitro WTF, dawg?
I think its great to see so many driving sims coming out, and all featuring similar features, tracks and cars. This means we can almost directly compare all these games and with it enjoy the fact that we'll have more and more quality driving sims/games to look forward to.

Okay, now I think i've gone to far..
(just chill man, no offence but i think we should just sit back and enjoy all these games).

 

[RazorDK]

How about somebody post two pics of the same car? Making it different cars just seems stupid.

Mclaren F1 GTR Fina #42:

Forza:

Compared to

GT4:

 

[code_kev]

I think both those shots look freaking great.

 

[Jay]

Wow they (both) look great.

Although the tyre profile of the Forza mclaren looks abit high or the rims are too small, as does most the the car models in Forza.

 

[98cobra]

Wow they (both) look great.

Although the tyre profile of the Forza mclaren looks abit high or the rims are too small, as does most the the car models in Forza.

Is it me or are all of Forza's tire side wall heights too large on most cars? Compare the tire's side wall height from the actual pic to the Forza pick. Both look good by the way.

 

[DMotion]

Another screenie comparo...analyzing car models structure.
Forza:

i think this is more like it.. "ingame"
ok it's an old screen but this one is not renderd like all the new PR screens.

 

[EGFerio]

Is it me or are all of Forza's tire side wall heights too large on most cars? Compare the tire's side wall height from the actual pic to the Forza pick. Both look good by the way.

check post #800

the Vette looks squeezed in from the side

 

[98cobra]

check post #800

the Vette looks squeezed in from the side

Yeah, Vettes are usually wide.

 

[tiptopcream]

GT3 looks better and GT4 looks better than both.

 

[DMotion]

http://media.teamxbox.com/games/ss/902/1102636246.jpg]

i hope this is 16/9 mode on a 4/3 mode screen..

 

[the Interceptor]

the Vette looks squeezed in from the side

That's because the picture has the wrong aspect ratio, it needs to be streched to 16:9, just like the pic in post #1571.

Cheers,
the Interceptor

 

[EGFerio]

That's because the picture has the wrong aspect ratio, it needs to be streched to 16:9, just like the pic in post #1571.

Cheers,
the Interceptor

oh! ok. I didn't think any one would like to distort pics.

 

[kinigitt]

hey have you seen the official website. of all the cheek for forza to have a new york course WHICH IS EXACTLY THE DAMN SAME AS THE ONE IN GT4 (not EXACTLY the same because on the back straight after the first corner, instead of turning of onto 57th avenue, it carries on straight up to 5th avenue). and also the have laguna seca, tsukuba AND the Nurburgring!!! hey, is it me, or are games like forza and enthusia just copying gt4?? well in my opinion, that's not right. i mean, ok, so a game can have 1 circuit the same or include a couple of cars which are the same, but to include cars and tracks which are the same in big numbers is UNBELIEVEABLE!!! What's next, both enthusia and forza WILL BOTH GET LE MANS AS WELL???

if you want to get all huffy about it, consider that PGR 1 had a slew of new york course layouts that were better than the New York course in Prologue.

p.s. I just read up on about 14 pages of stuff. The notables:

forza has an FF wheel in the works! Hope it doesnt suck, because the DFP is a righteous ass-kicking machine. I play TOCA2 with it all the time, despite having beaten the game and subsequently gotten bored of it prior to the DFP purchase. Food for thought.

forza official site is snazzy in the pants.

more than 250 cars. nice.

the tires are still ridiculously tall, and the wheels are still ridiculously small. wonder if it has anything to do with the vaunted tire physics model.

p.s. Everybody stop putting down Project gotham games. They oozed brilliance.

 

[jjboi]

Nice, comparing a doctored shot to a old meh capture of gt4, that's fair.
How about a pic from a more up to date build of gt4, like this

or

As you see, gt4's models look better due to better color usage.

Actually, they both look pretty much the same in terms of quality (which means they both look like racing footage shot from the SpeedVision network back in 1998 or somethin' like that). Both look great and have a good level of lighting, detail, and texturing. Not exactly the two best pics to choose if you're trying to bash one game or the other (or both).

 

[cobragt]

forza's wheel has bootleg FF, it's not real FF to the extent of the gt4 wheel. That wheel will just do simple coordinated rumble, that's all. forza looks great and what not but it's no where close to gt4 in quality visuals, not saying it looks bad but it just doesn't look realistic enough.

 

[kinigitt]

forza's wheel has bootleg FF, it's not real FF to the extent of the gt4 wheel. That wheel will just do simple coordinated rumble, that's all. forza looks great and what not but it's no where close to gt4 in quality visuals, not saying it looks bad but it just doesn't look realistic enough.

can somebody post a link or explanation describing how the FF wheel is not FF.

Or "bootleg" as you put it.

 

[tiptopcream]

can somebody post a link or explanation describing how the FF wheel is not FF.

Or "bootleg" as you put it.

Any wheel for Xbox is going to use the Xbox's rumble middleware software. So you won't get the wheel pull or any other fancy effects you get with a FFB wheel. You'll get the rumble you get through a control pad through the wheel. If you used a wheel to play a racing game on the PSone that's what it will be like playing Forza.

strokes Logitech DF

 

[kinigitt]

Any wheel for Xbox is going to use the Xbox's rumble middleware software. So you won't get the wheel pull or any other fancy effects you get with a FFB wheel. You'll get the rumble you get through a control pad through the wheel. If you used a wheel to play a racing game on the PSone that's what it will be like playing Forza.

strokes Logitech DF

more proof. less stroking please.

 

[tiptopcream]

more proof. less stroking please.

I have no proof on hand but it's a fact Xbox has no Force Feedback libraries in the dev kit tool set. No libraries, no FFB wheel. Even the Forza producer has said this.

 

[erahk64]

forza's wheel has bootleg FF, it's not real FF to the extent of the gt4 wheel. That wheel will just do simple coordinated rumble, that's all.

What wheel is that ?

The developers said in a interview this month that there's definitely things in the works that they haven't solidified yet. I have not seen any info that a Forza wheel has been announced.

Any wheel for Xbox is going to use the Xbox's rumble middleware software. So you won't get the wheel pull or any other fancy effects you get with a FFB wheel. You'll get the rumble you get through a control pad through the wheel.

Where did you get that info ?

In a interview during the summer, the developers said there will be no wheel if it can't be done right.
Now they are saying that they are working on a force feedback wheel.
So it seems as they are working on a true force feedback wheel.

 

[Dave A]

A proper FF wheel is possible on the X-Box, it's just the FF codes need to be put into the games, so only games coded to work with FF wheels will work, so if a FF wheel i made the the correct coding needs to be put onto the Forza disk, rather than it being built into the consoles libraries like on the PS2.

 

[8400RPM]

Thanks to animalica at granturismox for this link:


From June this year:

http://cars.ign.com/articles/526/526806p2.html?fromint=1

But the main reason we contacted Logitech was to talk about force feedback on the Xbox and Forza Motorsport, in particular. We haven't seen a single racing game support force feedback and we weren't sure whether this has to do with the wheels released, games or Xbox unit. Well, the truth is out.


According to Holove, the Xbox console doesn't support force feedback. Even if a wheel maker or developer wants to implement force feedback it won't do any good, the hardware won't make it happen. He's optimistic, though, "On the Xbox side we'll hopeful it'll work someday."

It's a sad realization that Forza Motorsport (and other racing games) won't support one of the coolest features around. It's one thing to have vibration function--we expect that much--but to make a realistic racing game and not be able to give players the sensation of fighting with the wheel is almost depressing. If true, it's a huge mistake on Microsoft's part. We can't understand, if the Xbox really doesn't support force feedback, how the company would think it wouldn't matter for the avid race fan. We contacted Microsoft for comment. Bill Gates' camp barely made it in time for this story. We were ready to assume the lack of a response was Microsoft's way of pleaded the fifth to this giant oversight. The official line, ""We have nothing to announce on a 1st party MGS steering wheel, or a licensed third party wheel, for Forza Motorsport at this time." Doesn't exactly tell us what's up with the feedback issue, but okay.

It's possible that getting force feedback on the box might be something as simple as a firmware upgrade. So force feedback could very well be available as a patch on Xbox Live or within a game. And, who knows, Forza could be the first game to support it. Then again, we might not see force feedback until we get our hands on the Xbox 2. If that's the case, Forza's bring-it-home experience will be severely limited, especially when compared to GT4.

One thing we do know is that Logitech is in the Xbox market and that means we have a serious player making racing games that much better. Although a NASCAR-branded, the wheel will have the quality, ergonomics and reliability we've come to expect from Logitech.

Jef summed it all up for us quite well, "Vibration makes a good gaming experience, but not as realistic as force feedback. When the platform supports force feedback we have no shortage of ideas."




But in a recent interview with this woman we hear something like this:

With such a realistic physics and handling engine a force feedback wheel would be great for Forza. Any plans?

Kiki Wolfkill: There's definitely things in the works that we haven't solidified yet. We appreciate that a force feedback wheel is the best way to experience a game like Forza and it's certainly something we're working on from a partnership standpoint.

Now look at the pic - no, at the wheel!
Can you see the rest of the sign? ...NATEC
But isn`t "Force Feedback" a Logitech TM?
And on the Fanatec page you see a big "Forceshock" logo under the wheel name.
If this would support real "Force Feedback" wouldn`t they display it near the wheel name?

Maybe it`s a improved rumble effect but not true "Force Feedback".

 

[erahk64]

.

 

[erahk64]

But the main reason we contacted Logitech was to talk about force feedback on the Xbox and Forza Motorsport, in particular. We haven't seen a single racing game support force feedback and we weren't sure whether this has to do with the wheels released, games or Xbox unit. Well, the truth is out.

According to Holove, the Xbox console doesn't support force feedback. Even if a wheel maker or developer wants to implement force feedback it won't do any good, the hardware won't make it happen. He's optimistic, though, "On the Xbox side we'll hopeful it'll work someday.

Why does he say that the hardware won't make it happen and then says
they are hopeful it'll work someday when he thinks that the hardware can't handle FF?



This was posted in the Gaming-age forum:

******UPDATE*****

**STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH***

My good friend Tom who works for the Logitech Wingman team was kind enough to shed some light on the current situation regarding their lack of development on an FF wheel. Below...
================

"Hello Isamu,

Long time no speak, indeed. I remember you... hope everything is alright with you, too.

Of course we would like to do a true FF wheel for the Xbox. Initially, Microsoft was totally uninterested and told us that if we can show 10 developers who are interested, they might consider it. Well, we rounded up those developers, and yet the whole thing went oozing on. At one point, we were talking to them about how this could be done; they seemed to be fishing for ideas without comitting to anything.

The problem, for us, is not really to make a wheel that would work. The problem is that the games need to support it; since the Xbox development environment doesn't really lend itself to "middleware" (like what we do for the PS2), we have to have Microsoft support this on their end, too. If they are not comitted to doing so, we can't force them to

Recently, all indications point to Microsoft having essentially abandoned anything new for the Xbox. It appears that they are working 100% on "next gen", which would be Xbox2 or whatever it's called when it comes out. Their interested in coming up with *anything* new for the existing platform has dropped down to zero...

So, to summarize - it doesn't look good for having a true FF wheel on the Xbox. Who knows, maybe we can get them to do that (or allow us to do it) for the Xbox2, but I wouldn't keep up my hopes for anything on the current platform. Sorry to disappoint you...

Eventually one needs to remind oneself that "it's just a game", and realign priorities on what else one does in life.

Have a good week (or end of weekend ,
..tom"
=====================

My reply........

"Thanks for the candid reply Tom. That's sheds a lot of light on things. It's really too bad that we live in a world where game companies make the almighty $$ their top priority. But alas, this is all about business afterall, as well as politics to a certain degree. Oh well, what can you do. I can only hope that Sega thinks about putting the code in anyway, just in case you know, someone die hard like myself decides to spend big money to a third party person to develop a custom PC to Xbox adaptor that recognizes any PC FF wheel. Surely that can be done with enough time and resources, no? Talk to you later man"
======================

Oh well, Ce La'Vi

http://forums.gaming-age.com/showthread.php?p=767175

I don't know if it's a real reply from Logitech or how old the info is, but according to that reply true force feedback wheels are possible on the XBOX.

It could be that Microsoft has started to work with Logitech after that info or
maybe they are working with other manufacturers.

The FF wheel can also be used on XBOX 2 if it has USB ports (the XBOX controller ports are USB ports).


This info can be found for the USB adapter cable that Liksang is selling (several sites are selling that cable):

So can you use pc usb Steering wheels with this cable to use on xbox eg(M$ Sidewinder) and other usb pc controllers , keyboards, mice etc ?

This all depends, you can use any USB device providing the game/software you are using supports it.

Does the USB adapter allow a Logitech Force Feedback Wheel for PS2 to work with XBOX titles? The wheel should work with a PC so is there any possibility on working with a XBOX?

Only if the games/software that you are using this on has the drivers built in

Link: http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=83&products_id=2154 (click on "FAQs for this product")


So according to those sites, the only thing missing is software support.

But in a recent interview with this woman we hear something like this:

With such a realistic physics and handling engine a force feedback wheel would be great for Forza. Any plans?

Kiki Wolfkill: There's definitely things in the works that we haven't solidified yet. We appreciate that a force feedback wheel is the best way to experience a game like Forza and it's certainly something we're working on from a partnership standpoint.

Now look at the pic - no, at the wheel!
Can you see the rest of the sign? ...NATEC
But isn`t "Force Feedback" a Logitech TM?
And on the Fanatec page you see a big "Forceshock" logo under the wheel name.
If this would support real "Force Feedback" wouldn`t they display it near the wheel name?

Maybe it`s a improved rumble effect but not true "Force Feedback".

There has been Forza pics with different wheels.
It could be that the wheel is not the official Forza wheel since it has not been announced and they recently said they are still working on getting a force feedback wheel.

 

[Dave A]

It's pointless us arguing this FF on X-Box debate, we don't know the full extent of whats involved in making it work. What we know is it's possible but difficult, but it may be just too difficult to be cost effective. This we don't know, so theres no point in arguing over it.

 

[jjboi]

<LOL>XBOX, THE MOST POWERFUL CONSOLE OF THE BUNCH, THE ONE THAT'S SUPPOSED TO HAVE THE MOST FEATURES, DOESN'T HAVE FORCE FEEDBACK SUPPORT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?<LOL>

 

[code_kev]

LOLZ!!!!11!!! OH NOES!!!!21232134onetwo!!!!1

Force feedback is software based only, all it would need is some drivers, and well, that's it, seeing as how the Xbox pads are usb based (i think), it shouldn't be too hard to implement.

 

[Dave A]

Nice post there, very informative. Thanks for sharing that with us. Do your research and you'll find that you can get force feedback on X-Box, theres just no libraries for it yet.